Ciaran Laval

The problem has really arose from trying to kill two birds with one stone, which is often appealing but in this case falls a little short of being ideal. Your proposal is a good one that addresses both issue to a degree, although what the original Jira really asks for is a new function to login invisibly, like you get with Yahoo Messenger and I can remember doing with ICQ back in the 90's. As Kelly points out it would take some major coding overhaul to achieve the desired results I'd suggest the best way forward for now is for LL to keep the scripted funcion but make sure the TPV policy is enforced, TPV's don't need to show true online status as part of the client.

Cerise Sorbet wrote: Ciaran Laval wrote: What is the exepcted behaviour for llGiveInventory and llGiveInventoryList? Should items be going to the received items folder? They did when I tested them but others say that in the same region, they don't. That turned out to be the result of a characteristically inept Linden Lab rollout. Only two of the four regions documented by them to have Received Items enabled, actually had it enabled. Thanks again, I ended up downloading the beta viewer and then the project viewer to get it to work, now that I think about it when I used the project viewer I did go to a different region.

Dartagan Shepherd wrote: No problem with them trying to make sure new features are consistant and if done, done properly by supporting code on the backend and backed by customer support. It's just so much more professional and I think important to new users to find a singular experience. Having to download a different client because I experience the world differently with it is amateur. Downloading a different client because the layout is better, or because I can do machinima better with it is less amateur. Having a single client that I have no major gripes with would be the most professional, but the founders who decided to save some money with free contributions and depended on viral aspects of open source instead of solid marketing kind of ruined that one. Rod did inherit the problem as did some of the newer employees and they know that, and don't appear to be crazy about it, which is refreshing. You will never please everyone with a client, I don't think different clients are amateur, but it seems LL want people to tweak the user interface and as you suggest, make a client that is more focussed on machinima and photography, rather than introducing new features such as avatar physics and parcel windlight, which LL deem to be world chaning events. I think there are some grey areas here, which is where people are getting hung up, I don't see the problem with either avatar physics or parcel windlight as it doesn't change my SL much, extra attachment points though, I can see why LL would suggest that shouldn't have happened the way it did. If you look at how MMO's develop in these areas, World of Warcraft has a lot of custom add ons, to change the layout and interface but it isn't a world changing development, it doesn't make the inworld action different, it may make it more comfortable for people to play, but it doesn't add anything new in the game itself, I think that's where LL are coming from, they maybe haven't explained it well.

Couldbe Yue wrote: it means a new viewer is not required to receive items. This solves the problem of people not being aware of the change and not being able to receive items (which was a pretty big issue with the DD viewer release a while back). So when DD comes in only merchants will need to upgrade their viewer. Thanks, that's a definite plus point to this rollout.

What is the exepcted behaviour for llGiveInventory and llGiveInventoryList? Should items be going to the received items folder? They did when I tested them but others say that in the same region, they don't.

The folder acts more like a system folder, different options when you right click than you get when you right click something in objects or a normal inventory folder, for example. What are the technical advantages here because I don't see any end user advantages to this.

Feldspar Millgrove wrote: Regarding the fact that you can tell if someone is online by other means than llGetAgentData. As acknowleged by LL, there are many ways to do this. However, LL has made it very clear that anyone using those techniques would be in serious violation of the policy and TOS. "Don't do it" was what they said. Now that people are pointing out uses for these calls that are nothing to do with snooping, Oz has said they will discuss the issue further, for TPV's, they shouldn't be using it and Oz's don't use it point still stands.

Aww don't feel stupid, when someone else has the same issue if they search this forum they will find the answer, it' will be helpful

wow three responses in the same minute! We are a helpful bunch aren't we

Make sure you are wearing the correct group tag when you place your object.

Oh not this cack again, I've seen this before, LL need to stop anyone but a Linden from resolving issues.

Chetar Ruby wrote: Is knowing if someone is connected or not *REALLY* so big a deal we must BREAK things to guard it? Puhleeze. Overkill. It's not that big a deal. So what, someone you don't like knows you're online? Is this really a big privacy issue that LL has to go breaking content over? For some people, yes it is a big deal and we should all respect their wishes, however I think LL are going about this the right way, TPV's don't need this feature as an option, Oz has said on the Jira that people making good use cases for requesting agent data is worthy of further discussion so hopefully a happy compromise can be found.

Jennifer Boyle wrote: I don't understand. If it were possible to conceal online status from people using the standard LL viewer, I would understand, but it's not. All you have to do to find out if I'm online is send me an IM, notecard, or object, or look at a group we both belong to. Many people, including me, have been asking for years for the ability to actually conceal our online status, the equivalent of closing the blinds and not answering the phone or door in RL, and LL has refused to make it possible. I don't understand how a viewer that makes it a little easier to do what is already easy with the standard viewer violates anyone's privacy. AFAIK, as it stands the only way to be online without anyone else who cares to finding out is to use an alt that no one knows about. Perhaps I'm missing something. If I am, please tell me what. Linden Lab have told the TPv's to remove the feature, they are also talking of breaking the LSL scritping call that finds someone's online status so that it will only work if you are basically making the call about yourself, this isn't as mad as it sounds, you might have a customer service board that shows your online status to customers. However there are legitimate cases for finding someone's online info that aren't about circumventing privacy, but about delivering inventory, so the discussion will be ongoing. You are however correct to say that IM's and groups will still show the group status, but LL are trying to make it so that a users wishes are respected by their online status.

Iam Runningbear wrote: There used to be a device that would IP ban alt accounts but due to LL's ultimate wisdom they decide to ban this device. They could not do their jobs in enforcing the TOS so they banned the object that performed this task for them. God forbid they are made to look bad. They claimed as a few others did that it was a privacy issue. Personally I think it was an issue of a few controlling the masses. It was kind of like the Hometowners didn't want the wal-marts to sneak in and make them conform to a higher standard of service or organization. It was a privacy invasion and the creator hardly covered himself with glory, inside and outside of SL.

Shermerville is worth a look too, just to see some of the ideas LL once had with communities and setups.

Anaiya Arnold wrote They are not breaking temp image uploads. Someone jumped to this conclusion and it's surprising how many are swallowing it. The builder UI is not a shared experience. Temp uploads are not a shared experience. Oz clearly doesn't think they're a good idea though.

Srilania Svoboda wrote: the problem with that one is simple. We had Avatar hysics and mutiple attachments for well over a year before Linden Labs realized it was a feature worth having. Sometimes, in order for them to see there's a needed feature in the stock viewer, they have to see it out there first. by adding this restriction, they stifle innovation, and make it so they won't know when there's a new idea that is wildly popular. Extra attachment points I can see as an issue, parcel windlight settings and avatar physics not so much and if these features had never appeared in TPV's, would they have ever made it to the official client? This could seriously impact innovation.

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I have a hard time getting all excited about someone's assertion that a new feature would "enhance" SL. It would enhance SL for them............but what's important is will it enhance SL for enough users to make it worth it? Absolutely Peggy, voice actually had very little support when you looked at Jira requests for it, and although I do think it enhances Second Life, there wasn't a great deal of call for it. The bottom line for Linden Lab has to be, is the effort worth it, we'll all have different ideas about what's the best forward and that's very healthy, but it's upto Linden Lab to evaluate what's worthy.

Celestiall Nightfire wrote: Yup. Showing your true colors. Too bad they aren't pretty ones. Her colour is Ginger, but she's right, there's no big support of Ron Paul in the Uk, which isn't surprising as he's not the president of th USA and he's not a UK politician.

Dillon Levenque wrote: Would you (or Medhue) mind explaining how you think it might add value? I read your blog post as well as the one at Digital Romance Lab but I still don't see exactly what the benefit to SL would be, other than to help keep LL solvent if it proves profitable. I have never gotten involved in any RP sims here so perhaps that's what I'm not seeing. Don't bother if it would mean a dissertation—I'm just indulging my curiosity—but if it could be explained with a note or a link I'd appreciate it. There are two issues, this acquisition is nothing to do with Second Life, I find it encouraging that Linden Lab are developing new products as it's a sign, to me at least, that Linden Lab are in a healthy position. On a more personal level, I think the idea of a more rich chat dialogue interface within Second Life would enhance interaction with NPC's, this doesn't just have to be about gameplay for roleplay, it could be used for information booths, quizzes, treasure hunts etc, the current menu system is a bit clunky and very limited when it comes to presenting information.

He's posted at new World Notes: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2012/02/linden-lab-buys-adventure-game-studio-ai-innovator.html#comments

Good idea but there are lots of different forms of roleplay.

Yohan Roux wrote: I agree with both of you, in the UK Ron Paul is an inspiration, we are becoming more vocal now and calling for someone like him here. Behave! Ron Paul is not an inspiration in the UK.

es0 Torok wrote: Thanks! That helps a lot. I wonder if there are people that "play the LindeX" market... There are indeed, but you need a lot of Linden dollars to make it work, and I mean a lot, the spread doesn't work for smaller amounts, and by smaller amounts I'm not talking peanuts. I usually limit sell my Linden dollars for one price point above the big bulk sell rate if I want it quickly, you will get a better rate than with a market sell, you can actually play about with this without committing to a sell, just type the numbers in.

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: One more sentence added to the article and replacing the incorrect use of "real money" to the correct use of "in-world currency". It doesn't require a lot of confusing details (which exchanging $L for $ is full of). It just takes a little research. And since the wrtier did not even do that little bit of research I tend to question most everything else in the article. The writer is, at least, a semi-pro..........he/she should have done the work before writing the article. Peggy the writer has paraphrased Linden Lab's own press release which states: "The company pioneered the virtual currency and marketplace with Second Life, the massively multiplayer online platform, where hundreds of millions of user generated items are bought and sold for real money and which entertains millions around the globe. Linden Lab is headquartered in San Francisco. More information can be found at lindenlab.com." http://lindenlab.com/press/releases/12_02_16 I'm all for writers being careful with what they write, but this is basically from the horse's mouth.