Coby Foden

Mesh clothes can be rigged or non-rigged. Only rigged mesh clothes will bend with the avatar body bones, non-rigged ones will not bend. Your dress makes me wonder why a designer would make non-rigged dress...:matte-motes-agape: Rigging gives the life to mesh clothes, non-rigged one is like a frozen lake. To avoid disappointment it is always advisable to try demo first, which should always be available in inworld shop, and in market place too if the designer has store there.

Marymac Dougall wrote: ... Keeping and expecting a computer to run well for a number of years is avoiding the reality of a tough bit of news. The moment of purchase of a computer would be coupled with a dedication to begin saving for the next computer because that is the reality of reality. Indeed, this is the unavoidable fact of things. People should realize and understand this fact. Asking that every computer what people are using should be able run SL viewers perfectly is like saying "Why my old T-Ford cannot go as fast as modern cars? Darn, the manufacturer really should do something about it!" Only fast enough computers will serve some years in graphics intensive programs, before it's time to upgrade again. Upgrading is a never ending cycle, that's how it goes. Buying a low spec computer which really wasn't meant to run such programs is a waste of money and leads to disappointment. Besides, a low spec computer even shortens the time span when it's a must to upgrade again. So, buying "a bit too fast" more expensive computer is actually saving money as there is no need to upgrade so often.

Ishtara Rothschild wrote: Ashasekayi Ra wrote: If you want to get personally offended by a comment that wasn't personally directed at you, that is your right. It was directed at a large group of people that probably constitutes the majority of customers, which makes it even worse. I took offense because I'm a member of this group. Ishtara, the intention of my post was not to offend nor ridicule anybody. I just pointed out some viewer and computer facts. That's all there was to it. My humble apologies to you and the majority of other users whom my post might have offended.

I posted something on other thread: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Fashion/What-is-everyone-s-thoughts-about-mesh-clothing/m-p/1102809#M2818 Some higlights from that posting here: Viewer V2/V3 haters: It's different, the UI design is "out of this world". But it's learnable and it's usable (if your computer can run it). It just takes some effort to learn the different UI. Why not give it real try? Two minutes is not enough... :smileytongue: Use it for many days. Besides Linden Lab viewer there are third party viewers (like Firestorm) with a lot better design and features. My computer cannot run V2/V3 viewer sayers: There are now some third party V1 viewers which can render mesh. Why not give them a try? (Cool VL viewer, even Radegast has now graphics which can render all present SL features). I love my old V1 viewer and I don't want to upgrade: Well, it's your choice, which baffles me... :matte-motes-agape: My computer is very old and cannot run SL properly with any viewer: Time to save money and upgrade! Nothing else can be done. Sorry. Hint for enjoyable SL experience: The faster and the more resourceful your computer is, the less problems there will be in SL. Few months ago I upgraded mine. Now the viewer based lag is almost non existent. I have high frame rates with all the graphics upped. I hardly ever crash with any viewer. A huge difference compared to my old computer in which viewers crashed ever so often. Mesh creators, please fill the grid with mesh. The more mesh there is, the more reason people have to upgrade their ancient viewers. Thank you. :smileyhappy:

That's exactly what no mod means. One cannot modify them in any way. Taking something out is modifying. So, there is no way to remove the invisiprims from no mod shoes by the owner. Only the creator can do it.

Persephone Emerald wrote: "Should the development of Second Life's look and feel be stopped until all people can afford to buy faster computers which are able to to render all the present and future new features?" No, of course not. Second Life should be made as detailed & feature-filled as possible for those who can afford the better computers. But there should also be options for users who can't afford the higher-end computers. If 90% of users can see SL in all it's beautifully detailed mesh glory, the 10 % who can't should be able to play along, seeing odd boxes, spheres & donuts along with the rest of the regular prim world. Persephone, I totally agree to that :womanhappy:. My earlier post was meant to give something to think about for all those viewer V2/V3 and mesh haters :matte-motes-evil:. I'm all for any graphical enhancements to Second Life - mesh, better shaders, bump maps, shadows, cloth physics, hair physics, enhanced avatar mesh, whatever which enhances the look and feel of SL - all welcome. I enjoy seeing beauty (who doesn't?). I hope that Linden Lab would enhance the mesh clothing rigging as soon as possible. All present problems in rigged clothes would vanish. Somebody even has made a detailed list what problems would be solved with "Parametric Deformer and Layer System": http://images.plurk.com/2767af6225257672540d14ef94a30a43.jpg If this was done then the mesh clothing really would become the major mesh application target in SL. Crossing my fingers... :smileyhappy: PS. Viewer V2/V3 haters: It's different, the UI design is "out of this world". But it's learnable and it's usable (if your computer can run it). It just takes some effort to learn the different UI. Why not give it real try? Two minutes is not enough... :smileytongue: Use it for many days. Besides Linden Lab viewer there are third party viewers (like Firestorm) with a lot better design and features. My computer cannot run V2/V3 viewer sayers: There are now some third party V1 viewers which can render mesh. Why not give them a try? (Cool VL viewer, even Radegast has now graphics which can render all present SL features). I love my old V1 viewer and I don't want to upgrade: Well, it's your choice, which baffles me... :matte-motes-agape: My computer is very old and cannot run SL properly with any viewer: Time to save money and upgrade! Nothing else can be done. Sorry. Hint for enjoyable SL experience: The faster and the more resourceful your computer is, the less problems there will be in SL. Few months ago I upgraded mine. Now the viewer based lag is almost non existent. I have high frame rates with all the graphics upped. I hardly ever crash with any viewer. A huge difference compared to my old computer in which viewers crashed ever so often.

Better to mute such demanding rude customer. That kind of behavior is outrageous! If they don't understand nice talk then they don't. Surely they might say bad things about you to their friends when they learn that there is no reply from you. But it might also be that they do not have such many friends as to affect your business in any way. PS Making something very similar to other designer's work is risky business. Better to stay away from it. It is silly for a customer even to ask a designer to do such thing.

Penny Patton wrote: ... New sign-ups don't have nearly the freedom in choosing their usernames that we did with our SL names, meaning a lot of people are going to be stuck with usernames they really don't want as an avatar name ... Linden Lab made a great mistake when they implemented Display Names by abandoning last names from new account User Names at the same time. It is almost impossible for new users to create nice User Name anymore. Their only option is to create something silly, gibberish, ugly and hard to remember User Name with what they are stuck for ever. :smileysad: There is a JIRA here: Bring Back Last Name Options! :smileyhappy: People go and vote for it, 1560 votes so far.

Persephone Emerald wrote: It's really not fair or economically sensible for Linden Lab to disable old viewers just so people with better computers will be happy. Many people can not afford to upgrade to a newer computer or better video card. And any tactic that forces people who want to use Second Life out of it would be suicide for Linden Lab. Which arises the question: Should the development of Second Life's look and feel be stopped until all people can afford to buy faster computers which are able to to render all the present and future new features? And for how long time? One year, two years, five years, or even more? There will always be people with older lower end computers which will not be able to render things properly. Is it feasible to stop development because of that? Second Life looks rather cartoonish at present. Are we satisfied with it? And for how long? Or would we like to see it rendered more realistically perhaps? Would we like clothes that acted like real clothes do? And hair which acted like real hair does? Such features do need fast computers, nothing can be done about it. Maybe Linden Lab should develop a code which would automatically render invisible everything what the user's computer could not handle properly. :smileysurprised: :smileytongue:

ellerc wrote: That makes a lot of sense now, thanks for the clarification. I will continue to remind people that my name is Elle Parkour and not Ellerc. ::smiles:: Many people are interested to see only the real identity of avatar, and that real ID is the User Name. Anybody can have their Display Name as "Elle Parkour" and there can be many avatars having exactly the same Display Name, but there is only one "ellerc", that is unique name. So, even if you are constantly reminding people that your name is Elle Parkour, still lots of people will call you ellerc. Sad for those who were not able to select nice User Name, but so the thing works. Linden Lab is also to blame for not giving proper instruction in the account creation page. Well, on the other hand as new User Names don't anymore have last name, selecting a nice Use Name is quite impossible. Dismissing the last names was a great mistake. :matte-motes-crying:

Tarina Sewell wrote: I did see a great hoodie mesh that looked nice, I was impressed with the sleeves and their movement. Then I put my boots on and lost the alpha on the hoodie.. yuck. I have noticed that the mesh clothing is plain and mostly in simple colors with very little detail. Maybe a fat logo splashed across a hoodie.. You know, we can wear many alphas. If you "wear" alpha it replaces any alpha what you might have on. If you "add" alpha it does not replace existing alpha what you might have on. So, in your case you can have the hoodie alpha on and also the boots alpha on at the same time. Good texturing is an art itself and it takes time and skill to do it properly. Mesh does not limit how detailed the texturing can be. Texturing can be very detailed with complicated colors and highlights and what not. It's just up to the designer what they are willing to do. For example, I made rigged short miniskirt, applied detailed texture on it and added some higlights on it. Looks nice and detailed detailed. As an added bonus, I made it to fit my own avatar shape, so I don't need to wear any alpha under it. Just normal pantie will do. :smileyhappy: If Linden Lab develops mesh so that it conforms also to morph targets instead of just the bones as it does now, then the mesh clothing will really become very usefull as it will deform with all the the appearance sliders. Then one clothing item will fit all avatar shapes.

hibit Spad wrote: So,mething else to think about is that the mesh clothing witll probably not move with the mesh avatar. So there is a chance the mesh avatar will poke through the mesh clothing. Mesh avatar is rigged to the avatar bones, so it moves with the bones. Mesh clothing is rigged to the avatar bones, so the clothes move with the bones too. When the clothes are made to fit the mesh avatar, the mesh avatar will not poke through the clothes. If the clothes are not rigged to the bones, then the clothes will not move with the bones. So the movement of the clothes depends only on the fact that are the clothes rigged or not rigged.

Rigging is only needed when you make something that needs to bend with the avatar body. So, if you make a hat for example, no rigging is needed. I have seen few rigged hairs, but because mesh is not flexible like flexible prims, rigged mesh hair does not look so good. On the other hand, rigged mesh long boots look fantastic as they bend nicely with foot, leg and knee movements.

In the beginning day after day I logged into Help Island. Then I started to to adjust my shape, try out different clothes right at the landing spot in front of all people there! :smileysurprised: And I looked terrible with those early times noobie skin and clothes. For a long time it was a total mystery for me how others could look so beautiful. :smileytongue: I often heard somebody saying "If you need any help just IM me". Well, I had no clue what an IM was, heheheh...

Pinky Pixelmaid wrote: Took this pic for another shoe thread...but they're still my fave shoes these days. Venezia by Similar Italian Footwear...super sexy! I've been wondering a long time why most of the designers make the heels impossibly high and thin too? Trying to achieve a "super sexy look" perhaps? Well... :matte-motes-agape: In RL for me it would be impossible to tiptoe in those even for one minute without breaking them and my feet. Well, in SL they don't break nor the avie ankles... Anyway, I would like to see a bit more realistic heel hights in SL shoes. Those extremely high thin heels make the shoes to look rather impossible to wear. They force the ankle in very unnatural angle, which for my eyes is not anymore so beautiful. Just by looking at them makes my ankles hurt. :smileytongue: Of cource we are all different, some like those, some don't. :smileyhappy: :smileyindifferent: :smileysurprised:

You can find the complete avatar.blend file here: http://www.dominodesigns.info/ http://dominodesigns.info/downloads/blender/avatar.blend You might find this link also very helpful (Second Life rigged clothing series tutorials): http://www.youtube.com/user/ashasekayi#g/c/11D6E99BB51A2BB2

Matt Kuroda wrote: I still don't know what to think about mesh yet. I do know it is good to embrace change. Although I say Second Life is becoming less like "Second Life" and more like "M.I.T. Tech School Graduates Resume Builder" What I mean is this was suppose to be a user created World.... Not a 3d graphics major created World. Mesh is not going to make prims nor sculpties obsolete. Prims are still the best and easy way make many things, sculpties will have their uses too. And meshes will have their uses. The creator just uses the method what is best for the task at hand. SL is still user created world. Mesh is not going to change that. To create mesh there are excellent free programs available, no need to spend thousands on commercial software. Blender (free) is a great tool for creating mesh objects. The user interface is daunting at first but it is learnable. And there are tons excellent free tutorials available.

Well, I was a bit wrong in saying that mesh is not suitable for long skirts. I found a shop where there are lots of mesh clothes demos. I was pleasantly surprised how well this body licking long dress works in different poses. When walking it moves nicely with the walking animation. Ain't it cute? Possible only with rigged mesh. If you are interested to try out the demos to see how they work on your avatar here's the slurl: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Zyrra/51/170/28

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygon_mesh)

Certain kind of realistic looking clothing is only possible by doing it in mesh. One example is a tight miniskirt. Here is a sample of rigged miniskirt which I made in Blender. As we all know using textured pants and the (horrible) prim or sculpt between our legs never works well. When you walk you can see the prim part doing its own animation. Some animations put the prim part in very silly position. We hate them, don't we? :smileysurprised: As you can see, the mesh skirt follows the body animations very well. For jackets and long pants mesh is excellent too. For long skirts and gowns mesh is not so suitable because mesh is not flexible (like flexi prims are). Mesh will not make prims and sculpties obsolete (as some have feared). It's just an additional enhanced way to make content to Second Life.

For me it took effect immediately upon completing. There is some bug in it which affect some people. In this thread there is one solution: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Account/Age-Verification-and-Payment-Info-work-in-some-places-but-not-in/qaq-p/1009389

Thanks Gaia, excellent tutorial again. As a new user to Blender I personally prefer video tutorials. In the video I can see exactly how things are done, which will help me to learn Blender efficiently. The text explanations with screen captures are also great. So for complete ease of learning maybe there should be both, the video and the text with screen captures. I can follow easily video tutorials, one can pause the video while one is doing the excercise in Blender. But some people might have difficulties following them. Hey, the robotic voice in your videos is not so bad after all... :smileywink:

Ashasekayi Ra wrote: Alexandra Barcelos wrote: Ohh well i tried rigging my skirt mesh and when i upload it to sl , the eyes are atached to the mesh loll .. so i tought i absolutely needed collada 1.4 , now i need to figure out why the eyes atach to the skirt when i rig If you want a step-by-step SL mesh clothing tutorial, give this one a try: http://www.youtube.com/user/ashasekayi#grid/user/11D6E99BB51A2BB2 That tutorial series is really great. Anybody new to making rigged clothes should watch those. I'm just learning Blender and by following those tutorials I was able to make rigged skirt and import it succesfully to SL. Woot! :smileyhappy: I used Blender 2.59 which exports rigged clothing perfectly. No need to search any extra Collada, the one which is in the default installation works well. One extra thing needed to make the weighting easier is the "Bone Weight Copy" addon. Look for this thread: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Bone-Weight-Copy-in-Blender-2-5x/td-p/1071299

Spirit Osmus wrote: Thanks ! I will try, but I create it not only for me and I I do that for my shape, what about If I give it to somebody with another shape... May be If I can move the dot of the pelvis at armature I will have good result, but how,,,, For differently shaped avatars to wear, you need to create alpha texture which hides the avatar body parts under the clothing. Else it is sure that some body parts will poke through the body. So you need to give the mesh clothing item and the alpha texture. The user will wear both. As the body under the clothing is invisible we cannot see is the body poking through the clothing or not. In the tutorial links I gave, there is also instruction how to make the alpha texture to be worn with the clothing.

Why so pessimistic? Mesh is a wonderful enhancement to SL. Mesh does not need any higher end computers than what we have used so far. Well made meshes actually cause less lag than sculpties. TPVs are busy making their viewers mesh compatible. Some are even trying to enable mesh capability in 1.x based viewers. So future looks very bright. Mesh objects and clothing surely will make SL more beautiful. Mesh will not make ordinary prims nor sculpties obsolete. It is just one additional way to create content. I'm sure that mesh objects and clothing will please everybody's eyes. The more mesh content there is in SL the more willing people will be to upgrade their viewers to mesh enabled ones. Who would like to see not correctly rendered meshes like the old viewers show them anyway? Mesh is here and it will not go away. I'm sure that over the time mesh will get improvements too. This is just the beginning. I love mesh. :smileyhappy: