Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Important Update: Zanara has solved this issue for us, and it requires merely an update on your magic box. Please see very last page of this thread. My apologies for raising such a fuss, not knowing this. Also - it appears that the Jira that was plugged into this thread quite a few times has been addressed, and that problem solved.Thank you, Zanara, for all of your efforts on that. Livid.4 Major Shopping Cart fails overnight. These are people who loaded the shopping carts up. These are people who are having a blast in second life shopping. These are people who have been Super Sweet!Spent 2 hours this morning trying to make heads and tails of who needs to get what - which store's items failed, out of that 10 - did they get a refund? no, still waiting. Send instructions on how to submit support ticket.Several of these carts were chock full of my items - they did not get half. They were very kind to come back after the refund came in and try again. Some are trying now. I doubt they will come back a third time - and it appears that the second time failed again for one person.And as I write this.....another Major Fail is sitting there, happening right this minute.The last two days of sales lost will be a tier fee this week.Not a happy camper at all.on that Jira - we have not had a Linden contact since mid-December.https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/web-4260UPDATE: I have just found out that this is wrong Jira for handling shopping cart failure Issues.I have made a new Jira here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7654 You think we are nickel and diming here?Damn straight we are. It adds up. The least you can do is to send an auto-notice with a failed delivery, that instructs them on what procedure to take.We, as merchants, are handling this glitch for you, daily, with considerable amounts of hours invested, simply to maintain our good customer service, that we've had for years, in order that you do not make us look like complete incompetents.In addition, our add-on sales are complete fail, if a shopping cart does not work.Those add-on sales pay tier from my store. Taken hit for three weeks now - maybe others have taken hit for longer that - certainly appears that way in the Jira, looking at dates.This is Major Fail. If it's a Fail we have to live with, then for goodness sake, just acknowledge it, and help us out here, with some kind of auto-notice to our customers.The customers are Super Sweet concerning this issue, by the way. We are fortunate on that. My sweet time toward LL has expired. Thanks for the Valentine Banner - looks awesome - popped for some featured ads - but doubt any of those items will get delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I get the same kind of errors when trying to pay tier, upload textures, audio files and mesh and paying on a premium account or two or buying L$. Wait, that's wrong. In years here, I've never had a billing error go in my favor. Please disregard. Maybe you'll get a free ad or two for the inconvenience. I hear some companies out there try to make things right for their customers when the fault is theirs (as in nearly all of them). Or you may get lucky with those new ads and not get billed for them due to an error. Or maybe you'll get a couple months with no commissions on sales. Who needs consumer protection anyway, we get open source shopping carts that kind of work and crowd funding. Please keep up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 "Wait, that's wrong. In years here, I've never had a billing error go in my favor. Please disregard." You know what? I don't recall an error ever going in that particular direction either. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 So not sure if this is in context, but being about commerce (note that label has been discarded in favor of "merchants" for this forum) and business: A little bird tweeted an LL job opening. Along with some logical bits that you'd expect of an employee, roughly half of the job requirements included: Organizing the weekly lunches.Handling travel expenses.Handling travel arrangements.Ordering office supplies (and more food and drink).Events.Ordering the "company swag".More normal employee requirements mixed in, but mostly food, events, travel, more food, etc. Good oral skills are required, but who wants an employee with bad oral skills? The saving grace was this: Ensure that visitors (employees and other) have workspace and other relevant amenities so that they can be productive on arrival. Productive on arrival is good. Thinking brown bag lunches and those seats with the built in toilets you get for toddlers are even better. Playpens to make sure they don't get out and that they're all accounted for and being productive. How can anyone work with all that crunching and chomping and wrapper rattling going on? LL has an eating disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 ....is context important anymore? Not like we use this forum to raise issues that can actually be heard or addressed. And not real sure what "commerce" is any more, as applies to this venue. Let's chit chat. I remember working for a company where food was important. Best working days of my life. Made a ton of money there, too. We were the happiest workers ever. And everyone knew this. Everyone wanted to work there. The nights we took the Limo out for dinner, talk of the town. But one Friday afternoon, we started our soiree just a wee bit too early. Right there in the front office, the party trays were laid out, and it was big sales week, so there was champagne, too. Lots of it. So there we were, lounging around, not a care in the world, champagne pouring, fancy little hors d'ouevres all spread out, and a client with an "issue" walks in. An "issue" that was rather large, and had not been taken care of properly by his rep that week. Oh boy. That was no longer a pretty scene! Dude kinda crashed the party, to say the least. He wasn't a huge account. But he had a huge mouth. Ooopsy. That company is no longer in business. I doubt it was due to that one event. Philosophy of that company was to coddle the reps, provide everything they need and more...in a luxurious way, to add, and make sure they are happy. Plus, that draws in successful reps with huge accounts from other companies, who want the same treatment. Huge lure. A lot of money and energy was spent on that. It was great PR. And result = huge profit. hmmm...wonder if that money and energy was pulled from the money and energy that could be spent on customers. Well, hell...did not matter. Everyone at the office was happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Excuse me for just a minute, Dartagan...I'm looking at an order where a new customer purchased 8 items in one shot, from my store, early this morning, and half were not delivered. Will be back later, and we can talk about our favorite hors d'ouevres. Right here, in the front office....in front of everyone. Including customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Yep, I have not 1 sale go thru today. Something is screwed up! I know it is only halfway thru the day, but consider that this is the worst morning I've seen in my whole SL sales history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Oh well....Marketplace's loss....is a gain for in-world shopping ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Newman Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Rene Erlanger wrote: Oh well....Marketplace's loss....is a gain for in-world shopping ! Is it though ! It just annoys people and they don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Smokey Newman wrote: Rene Erlanger wrote: Oh well....Marketplace's loss....is a gain for in-world shopping ! Is it though ! It just annoys people and they don't bother. I've heard from several people on my Friends List returning to shopping in-world...due to Marketplace delivery issues. It's become a bit of a lottery....admittedly it such a small sample, but if that continues to be replicated...it might mean a gradual return to more in-world commerce. For many in-world Merchants it's come too late though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Gorky Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Smokey Newman wrote: Is it though ! It just annoys people and they don't bother. Maybe in the short term they will be annoyed and frustrated and give up on shopping for the day, But the longer this goes on the more people will naturally become more distrustful of the MP and will switch to shopping in world. I hope all the non deliveries continue and that LInden Labs continue on with their "campaign of incompetence " I really dislike what the marketplace has become,. IMO the failing of in-world search is the only reason the marketplace has been elevated to it's current level of popularity. The only thing the MP is good for right now is to act as a glorified search engine to compensate for the failings of in-world search. Consumers should use the MP to find the creators they like and then visit their store in world to make a purchase. If the creator doesn't have a store in world? Well then, don't purchase their products, the merchant obviously doesn't care enough about providing a stable environment for you to make your purchases and you sure as hell can't rely on the MP to deliver your purchased goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Newman Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Hadn't seen it as long term but yes it would be good to get shopping in world back on track. I don't buy much on Marketplace but cannot beleive how much time it takes to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 hi Smokey - they added a memo to that Jira today, working on a fix in Adeti or whatever it is called. I'm not really sure what that means, except that perhaps the fix is in Beta? hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 >Wait, that's wrong. In years here, I've never had a billing error go in my favor. Golly, I wish someone had pointed this out before. Maybe you're on to something there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Oh, I know you've been pointing that out for a while. Only the conspiracy bits I disputed. It does "seem" like there's a lot of skimming going on such as mistakes in the marketplace that don't get reported, currency never refunded from old and inactive accounts, etc. I'm not the one to make accusations like that though, at least not without a lawyer in the wings. At the very least it's highly unethical to me that LL doesn't have the same attention to and security of purchases with customers money (and deliveries) as their own billing. In terms of commerce, virtual or no, this is an utter joke, because it's still real money with failed deliveries and less than optimal reporting of funds. Which is why I'm doing my part to try to bring virtual currency under the same laws and restrictions as real currency, so this kind of nonsense doesn't happen when people try to treat real money with play ethics. In the real world, paying 5% of sales for a service that doesn't work as advertised is actionable, and far more transparent in that you can request certain bits of information without some company trying to force an insane TOS and arbitration requirements on you because they can with the "fictional" elements of the system. We'll get there, one step at a time as more companies overstep their bounds with fake currency, and try to pretend they're banks-but-not-banks. I think Zynga and Facebook are going to help speed that along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Just a note, to no one in particular -- as long as delivery failures are handled by merchants, LL will remaim blissfully unaware that there is a problem. SL Exchange / Xstreet requested that failures be reported by the customer to them because they wanted to know about the failure rate. The commerce team is usually pretty quick to redeliver -- customers would probably often get their things more quickly by contacting the team responsible for deliveries rather than a merchant who may not check messages that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 > I'm not the one to make accusations like that though, at least not without a lawyer in the wings. It's not an accusation. It's an hypothesis. If they should care to refute it in front of a judge, the burden will be on them to show the real numbers before explaining them. But if they do show the real numbers, how else will they be able to explain them? >In the real world, paying 5% of sales for a service that doesn't work as advertised is actionable Precisely why I'm comfortable hypothesizing. They must realize that, from a cold evidentiary standpoint, one way or another, they'd just be exposing themselves to more trouble by trying to bring action of their own. Meanwhile, letting them skim (from others, if not also from me) is one of the potential costs of doing business with them, and letting me point it out is one of the costs of doing business with me. Of course, if they should choose to stop doing business with me, I might just talk about it even more. But since it's just supposed to be some kind of "bug" (or, rather, a really interesting series of bugs in terms of their similar effects) an even better choice would seem to be just to fix the "bug". No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 They know it's a major fail. And I will keep pointing it out through any method available. I'm not going to pass that burden on to customers and interrupt their Fun. My name and store name is on that marketplace page. My store name is on the box. I'm not going to leave that name and business in Linden Lab hands to handle a customer service request promptly. Would assume that most here, know why. And I'm not going to have my brand name attached to a fiasco in customer service. Most of us have limited time. We can choose our own methods. I prefer taking care of my customers first, with that time. You are welcome to imply that method is not doing our civic duty, have at it, but I've got deliveries to make this morning. ETA: Nice Edit. We can work together as merchants, or we can fight each others' attempts to cope. Either way works fine for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elle Crescendo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Personally I prefer to re deliver to my customers myself. I find I don't have that many non deliveries, I generally log in daily and in the interest of customer service I'd prefer to deal with these issues myself. I believe I handle it quicker than the customer relying on LL to respond to a ticket which could take days. Raising a ticket is an inconvenience to my customers and it's possible a lot of residents probably don't know how to do that. It's part of being a merchant, it goes with the territory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanara Zenovka Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It's a Catch-22 really - we *should* ticket every error - but who has time to do that? So we just clean up the mess ourselves cos it's faster. (sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 If we ticket every error, that just creates a new excuse for LL; "Sorry, we are too busy reading error reports to get around to fixing anything in the foreseeable future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 This Jira was marked "fixed" yesterday morning. NO. it is not fixed, and the refund times are taking longer than an hour now. As far as filing support tickets - I just received a response on one, that was filed probably over the weekend - probably 2 or 3 days prior - I don't know, where the heck do we get time to track all of this? So if a customer has to wait 2 or 3 days for a response - no way am I going to ask them to file a ticket. On top of that - the ticket asked for more info! Good grief - the info was in the dang ticket - look it up. This issue is not fixed by a longshot. ETA: I'm reading that ticket response right now - and they did not even read my request - it was pretty clear I was a merchant asking them to check on a customer who did not receive a refund. I gave the customers name. How hard is to look up the name and match it up with their purchase? We do that all dang day long - they cannot do that? That ticket was sent in on the 26th. The response date asking for more information was on the 30th. That is 4 days. I would HIGHLY recommend, if you're a marketplace biz, and want to keep your biz, to do something just a wee bit more proactive for your customers than THAT. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 My customers almost invariably receive a redelivery within one business day. I tell them that if LL takes longer than this, contact me and I will contact a Linden directly. The two times I did contact a Linden directly, I got an almost immediate response, and as it turned out, in one case the customer had only thought she had filed a support ticket but had not, and in the other, the set that the customer thought she had not received, was actually sitting in her inventory. That's my policy and so far almost all have found it reasonable. They don't much mind waiting a bit, though of course they had rather not have to -- if they had not been aware of the risks involved in buying from the marketplace, they are at that point. The marketplace gets several hundred dollars a month from me; it is their job to deliver and/or to verify the need to redeliver; that service is part of what I pay them for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mischief Goldshark Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 how about on your product listings offering a 5% discount to puchase the item inworld with a slurl direct to the item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 mischief Goldshark wrote: how about on your product listings offering a 5% discount to puchase the item inworld with a slurl direct to the item? that violates the listing guidelines.. prices must be the same inworld and on the marketplace.. BTW, i have been waiting for 3 hours now for items i purchased on the marketplace... what kills me is when people give bad reviews for non deliveries when it is LL fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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