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Hellespont Hoorenbeek

Hands of viewer 1.23 / Phoenix!

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Linden Lab is clearly lost track since viewer 1.23x is removed from the TPVD and the download is missing aswell, Continue like this forcing people to "lagg on a prim", "fake display names", "terrible new viewer interfaces", "crappy mesh" is a way to kill SL and make things even more poor then they allready are. Shops cant sell items because search is always having problems not even talking about the marketplace, Landowners can hardly sell land because everything is going to be noob-based what is wrong with you people at Linden Lab (ulgh!) you make me puke!! Clear your heads there in San Fransisco and start working on less server lagg less isssues make a compleet new viewer based on snowglobe 1.5 do something or continue like this and destroy SL.

Philip Linden you are missed right now the people current on top are making a mess of things, I hope you read this and can change theire minds.

Resident from 2007, That is seeing a terrible SL renovation!

FIX THE MESS!

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I'm also a resident since 2007 and don't see that many problems. No, I don't have a super pc but a 3 year old laptop that wasn't even top range when I bought it. Some changes I don't realy like but till now I've managed to adapt myself to each of them. I'm not a fan of display names, not because you have the oppurtunity to use them but because residents choose to use unreadable font. I hated the sidebar interface and never use, I'm using Firestorm right now and it does ok. Mesh is as good as the creator that makes it, but that's the same for prim stuff and sculpts, some builds (clothes, attachements whatever you can think of) are just crap, and other are well made, creative and a work of art. I don't suffer from lag most of the time, but surely when I hit a sim with 38 people all wearing scripted hair clothes etc. etc. I suffer. And yes, sometimes the whole grid has a problem but so does every other computer network  know of.

I do agree with you on search, ever since it's webbased it's slow or not responding and very hard to manage. Same goes for marketplace.

Remember the "haIr in butt syndrome" and the wednesdays that the grid was offline for hours while the gorillas "banged on things"? 

Things have come a long way since 2007, each change took me a while to adapt and to find my way in the viewer again. In this forums I see a lot of tips and tricks on how to improve performance. Maybe start to try one of the V3 viewers and use the tips and tricks provided?

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My experience is completely opposite.  I use web-on-prim to share data when collaborating with volunteers and friends.  My display name is set to "Immy". I consider the V1 interface to be terrible.  The V2/V3 isn't great, but, I find it to be a vast improvement.  I make mesh items.  They're not crappy.  So far, with the tiniest bit of effort, I've been able to make items which look nicer than prim builds, load faster than sculpts, and use far far less resources. (^_^)

My store remains on the first page search results for my target audience and the two freebies I "sell" on the marketplace move trouble-free at 20 to 50 units per day. =^-^=

There ~is~ less server lag.  I remember the days when a teleport would take ages, if it didn't time out, and cause chat to stall while the server was working out your arrival/departure... At the same time, any IMs being sent while in teleport would go to Email because the system assumed I was offline.  Physics have been smoother and faster than ever before.  So much so that I've been able to build a fully physical 2 piston crankshaft assembly which will operate in a sim with 30 avatars present. (^_^)

Resident from 2007, that is seeing things go in very good ways. =^-^=

**can I have your stuff when you leave? (^_^)y

 

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I miss the automatic "Rain Storms" when the server got lagged out....   I guess that shows some age... ;)

The latest Beta is nowhere near as nasty as many claim... it's certainly not that V2 mess that was shoved out the door but it still has a ways to go. 

I feel that it's the typical "I don't want to upgrade or change" syndrome.  That's why some people are still using Windows XP (only because Windows 2000 is not supported by anyone anymore) and MS Office 97.  8 out of 10 resist change, "resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" (sorry could not help it LOL). 

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I like the present day SL much more than what it was in 2007. Lot's of improvements has happened. The graphics are a lot better now than what they were back then (remember the "water" before Windlight?). Mesh is great thing too. It's about the time to finally say good bye to viewer 1.23, it isn't so great anymore. V3 is not perfect yet, but it sure is heading towards the right direction. I'm eagerly waiting what enhancements the future brings us. I love that SL is not static but improves gradually.

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I joinedin 2008 and I agree with Sideways...

The Lab's V2/3 viewers are getting better. The new Flexible User Interface has promise. 

If you think SL has problems, spend some time on some of the OpenSim worlds.

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Linden Labs took viewer 1.23 off their dierectory because they are about to introduce achange to the inventory system that willbreak viewer 1's inventory system. Third party viewers like phoenix will not be blocked, and assuming they continue to update it, third party viewers with  a viewer one codebase should work. That said, V1.23 has been out since 2009 without an update, they should have retired it  a year ago but kept it around. You seem to be against all forms of progress in second life at all. You sound a lot like those that were screeching against voice when it first came out. You dont have to use display names, the user interfavce-especially as of 3.2, is actually good, media on a prim has its uses 9and lag is more often caused by all the scripts you are wearing). mesh is awesome, and I see no issue with mesh at all. 

 

Why should they go back to snowglobe 1.5?  Viewer 2's interface sucked,b ut 3.2 and onward have the flexible user interface, which is nice. . I would rather them ban viewer 1 than ban viewer 3. You guys clinging to viewer 1 have known for at least a year this was coming eventually. They are working on fixing server lag and other issues (and then have people complain about it because they don't like the assocaited rolling restarts). Expecting them to go back to snowglobe and just throw away all the work on viewer 2 and 3 they ahve done thoguh is just stupid, and honestly selfish. I actually prefer  viewer 3s interface to viewer 1s. If you haven't actually *used* linden labs viewer, or something like firestorm, in the last month or so, you have no room to be speaking about how it sucks. 

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I don't have much lag, but then again I have a computer hefty enough to run SL well. 

I love the new user interface with it's flexibility. 

Mesh?  Mesh boots rock!  Can't wait for the mesh deformer to be done hopefully soon. 

Fake display names??   *looks over my head happy I can share my hubby's last name*  Check your preferences, you don't have to even SEE display names it's totally optional.

My ranch can be found in search by those looking for it, and my sales haven't dropped.

I bought land recently, and rented some too!  Didn't have any trouble finding it either.

Not sure what this lagg on a prim is you speak of.  I seem to be behidn the times on that one.

Noob based??? I don't even know what that means.

You can do it, download a V3 viewer....come on it's not so bad!  Come to the dark side!

 

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i play since 2007 also, and i think every tiny bit of SL has improved super much, the Viewer 1 sucked, it had that ugly look like i was feeling in the 80's like comunism times, it looked like it was made out of old wood.

The servers were muuuchhh more laggy, Tp's were super slow and annoying, had to Tp like 5-6 times untill it worked.

Viewer 2 kicks V1 at every point, its modern, its customisable, its more complex then the V1, in the end much more fun to play with.

I have no problems using it, i started to use Viewer 2 since 1st beta apperead, learned it in like 1 hour and thats it.

Problem is.... many people are lazy to adapt at new things, they get frustrated and annoyed cause they can't understand where is this and that and they freak out and go back to V1. After i teached some people how to use V2 the reactions were all positive.

 

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Firestorm is incredibly slow to log in, log out (hangs on splash screen forever), and nothing rezzes on my lap top (new) and my 2 year old desktop (graphics fan and memory upgraded to support designing in SL). This viewer takes forever to get everything and everyone out of "grey." I have a similar issue with LL viewer but not to that extreme. As a designer, having to wait for textures to load is painful. I think there is a way to speed this up, but I'm not smart enough to figure out the graphics choices.

The update for Phoenix is just borked. I can't see anything, and playing with the draw distance does nothing. I am NOT loading that on my desktop. No way.

I totally believe it depends on a level of learning something new. Designers and builders spend a great deal of time learning because the tools they use are always improving. Tools like Photoshop, Blender, Gimp require massive amounts of brain cells. A new viewer with new places to find your tools is just taxing on my brain. I'll do whatever I have to do to live and work in Second Life as long as my brain holds up.

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I am hardly a "highly active" person. I just get sick of all the luddites who cannot seem to understand that technology is not stagnant. The rest of the technology world is not going to sit still so you can keep using your pentium 4. Its also stupid to call for them to cancel viewer 2 and 3 and al the work that went into them, and go back to snowglobe 1.5 or viewer 1.23.5 just because of the interface. if you have not tried viwer 3 you have no room talking. I use firestorm and viewer 3, so if i have a problem with them, I know what I am talking about, and file JIRAs to get them fixed usually. You likely have not tried viewer 3 or firestorm, and come off as the type that, if you used it, used it for like 5 minutes, didnt like the UI and went back to viewer 1.23 (which was Linden labs made and they have the full right to pull their own viewer) or phoenix. 

Anyone paying attention would know they were going to pul viewer 1.23 eventually. Your delusion that linden labs is going to reverse course and go back to viewer one is whats inviting scorn. It is a selfish belief. Never mind people who actually *like* the flexible user interface, no, screw them, we all have to be on viewer 1 because you want it. Thats not being a linden lab fanboy, thats people telling you the common sense notion to not judge something til you have actually tried it, and to stop speaking fro everyone ('Everyone must be on viewer one, cancel viewer 2/3 and go back to the ild codebase!")

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Hey, that's a cool point of view: All people not agreeing with me must be LL fanbois, so it's not worth your time.. Get real, that's outright funny! I confess, I like the progress being made and I surely hope for more to come

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Hellespoint

Please know that, becasue you refuse to adapt and insist on using a unsupportes, outdated viewer, YOU are now part of the problem in SL, not the solution. Thanks for the lag.

The V3 Viewer UI is  totally customizable. To complain about it is just to simply show that you are simply to lazy to make simple modifications.

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Karma Avedon you are just as stupid as the people that run LL Livechat by thinking in your eyes "older viewers" produce lag this is incorrect a person withs is using a v1 interface styled viewer can never in what so ever way make your sl or others in world or out world where or what ever laggy your a joke viewers dont make other people laggy, LL SecondLife servers and your own viewer settings or viewer use makes YOU laggy. I have one word for you: N-O-O-B.

You see what i mean now with wasting my time people?, not worth 1 cent.

- I will not use viewer 2 or 3 interfaces because i like my viewer 1.23.5 and i respect you to use v2 or v3 interface viewers you need to start respecting others aswell did you for example know 45% of the SecondLife residents is using a v1 based viewer?

- Does the people that post here aactually know not everybody likes: Lagg on a prim < Media on a prim, Fake display names, Black dark un unserfriendly interface viewers, Viewer and server updates weekly and most of all hate the lastname for new account holders as Resident? [i will not even start about mesh]

- Does nobody of all the Linden Fan Boys club know how bad the marketplace can be and how worse LL Livechat is?

 

I mean get it together and face the facts that this is all a joke and really needs to be improved ( LL is not working on improvements!! they just mess around!)

TC.

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chould not say it better myself you are right i dont spend time anymore on sl forums because of the ll fanclub there are better forums to post thoughts i shall send you some links in a nc secondlife website forums will not work and ll just dont care wht we think

 

Bigger Halfpint

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Karma Avedon you are just as stupid as the people that run LL Livechat by thinking in your eyes "older viewers" produce lag this is incorrect a person withs is using a v1 interface styled viewer can never in what so ever way make your sl or others in world or out world where or what ever laggy

 

And you are just as stupid to think that viewer 2 or 3 based viewers cause lag, but yet i am sure that is where you place the blame for any lag you see. 

 

I will not use viewer 2 or 3 interfaces because i like my viewer 1.23.5 and i respect you to use v2 or v3 interface viewers you need to start respecting others aswell did you for example know 45% of the SecondLife residents is using a v1 based viewer?

 

And no one has an issue with you liking 1.23.5, but LL deprecated it. It is their viewer, and their choice. Also, most of the "abuse"  has been directed from v1 users against v2 users, not the other way around. Its just because the v1 people are becoming more stupid sounding as time goes on to people that have actually used viewer 3. A majority of users on the grid at one time used Emerald Viewer, but that means nothing

 

Does the people that post here aactually know not everybody likes: 

 

Most know you don't like these things, but you dont really say much. Most of our contention is  with the "well v2/v3 sucks go back to snowglobe 1.5 interface since i like it more"  delusion you have.

 

Lagg on a prim < Media on a prim, 

And how does media on a prim make you lag? Its essentially opening a web page. to use your own words: LL SecondLife servers and your own viewer settings or viewer use makes YOU laggy. Not Media On A Prim.

 

Fake display names

Ugh, you can turn these off. Also, phoenix and most of the modern third party viewers also have display names, so what is your point? In phoenix its under edit>display names. Vanilla LL 1.23.5 doesn have it, but it doesnt have a lot of things that are useful either.

 

Black dark un unserfriendly interface viewers,

And blue on grey is much better? Its only "user unfriendly" becauseyou haven't spent any time with it. And also, viewer 3 interface is more grey than black, and with firestorm or starlight skins, there is something else besides the default interface.

Viewer and server updates weekly 

What is wrong with server updates weekly? Its better than what we used to have, where you would ahve to wait months and months and months for an update to the server, then if something went wrong you were stuck with it for months until they rolled out the fix. Viewers are updated fast yes, but then there is an autoupdater in v3 for a reason. You seem to be against any kind of progress in second life and want us to stay stuck in 2007.

 

most of all hate the lastname for new account holders as Resident? 

 

That is something on the LL servers and has nothing to do with viewer 2 at all. They are actually going to change this from what I have heard.

 

[i will not even start about mesh]

 

Good, I wouldn't want someone that is ignorant and uninformed about it like yourself talking about it.  You need a somewhat modern viewer to see it, not a 3 year old deprecated viewer.

 

Does nobody of all the Linden Fan Boys club know how bad the marketplace can be and how worse LL Livechat is?

 

Yeah, someone disagrees with you so they *must* be a linden fan boy. First off, marketplace and LL Live chat have NOTHING to do with v2 viewers, so your ranting is uncalled for. LL is not perfect, but you are using v2/v3 as a base to bash everything, and much of what you use to bash is not even valid anymore

 

I mean get it together and face the facts that this is all a joke and really needs to be improved ( LL is not working on improvements!! they just mess around!)

wahhh they cancelled my favorite viewer, i dont want anyone using a different viewer than me , i will blame all of SLs problems on viewer 3 and its users wahhhhhhhh. Things do need to be improved, thats part of what the Viewer and server updates weekly that you were complaining about are for

 

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Serith Haefnir you're not a builder or a designer. I just looked at your profile. As a designer, I can't use these other viewers without ripping my hair out. I need a viewer that gets the job done quickly, not a viewer that requires extra steps. It's just that simple. There aspects of these viewers that can't be reconfigured to make my job easier. 

What is your job in SL? To play and go to clubs? That's fine, but designers and builders are the ones who speak the loudest about the viewers, not the regular folks.


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Serith Haefnir you're not a builder or a designer.  I just looked at your profile. 

Depends on what you mean. i do build in world. I have made clothes. Mostly for personal use, not selling them. I have built houses and vehicles and stuff like that as well. The profile doesn't tell the whole story either, just because I am not in a lot of builder goups does not mean I don't build anything.

As a designer, I can't use these other viewers without ripping my hair out. 

Your issue, not mine. Does not make v1 any better. V1 has odd, backward steps too, just like v2 does, just you are used to them because you have been using v1 so long. I find v2 just as simple for designing as v1 was. In fact, some viewers like firestorm  have the sae build tools as v1/phoenix do.

I need a viewer that gets the job done quickly, not a viewer that requires extra steps. It's just that simple. There aspects of these viewers that can't be reconfigured to make my job easier. 

I see no extra steps for most building. Uses same techology for building as v1 does. Some things in v2 take more steps, some things take less, mostly that is up to the UI which can be changed on TPVs. Usually the amount of clicks or such tends to be exagerated  to make v2 look worse because they are not comfortable with the UI (which 90 percent of the complaints are about). With v3 much of those comlaints go out the window, but most have apparently not tried v3.

What is your job in SL? To play and go to clubs? 

I actually manage clubs, and build them, manage sims, chat with friends (which i guess would be "playing in clubs" even if i am not usually at clubs when with friends). As well as seeing various things in SL. Just because I am not building all the time does not mean I know nothing about it.

That's fine, but designers and builders are the ones who speak the loudest about the viewers, not the regular folks.

Wrong. The ones who speak the loudest are the majority. Builders and designers are a minority. I see lots of people that speak about viewers on these forums, and more of it comes from technically minded people like myself than designers or builders, but then thats likely because we actually understand the viewers and how they work

 

 

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Hellespont Hoorenbeek wrote:

- I will not use viewer 2 or 3 interfaces because i like my viewer 1.23.5 and i respect you to use v2 or v3 interface viewers you need to start respecting others aswell did you for example know 45% of the SecondLife residents is using a v1 based viewer?

They're using a viewer that has the v1 interface but has been updated to support modern features. The number of people still using 1.23 has been in the minority for a long time now. Go ahead and still use 1.23 if you want, nobody cares. But every day that passes less and less of the grid will feel sympathy for you.

Disclaimer: My best friend in sl still uses 1.23 yet she doesn't seem to have a problem with me standing next to her wearing mesh clothes. We both made our choices and respect the others.

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Hellespont is correct Linden Lab just lost track and people have to stop putting theire heads into the sand it is a fact LL is making a mess and we the residents as they like to call us with weird lastnames have to deal with the problems LL creates.

I mean for the love of god just look at the problems v3 has in forums, now i dont say Firestorm is any better but hey those Phoenix/Firestorm people at least try to improve a viewer 1 interface styled viewer to make it work as we all like it to be just stable and enjoyable i cant say that from LL saddly. FIX THE MESH! i mean MESS!:smileyfrustrated:

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@Faye: I wish more people whoul follow your style and kind ways to comment...... whould you marrie me?:matte-motes-inlove:

 

I am getting so tired of some people here and am not goint to reply everything just do us all a favor and research some things befor posting your thoughts it gets twisted and missing the point compleetly. my original post was "Hands of viewer 1.23 / Phoenix" i had hoped a lot of people whould agree with me and was ment as a wake up call for LL to keep it alive and avalable to download, But all i see is LL fans that diss me this is unfair just pay some respect to ther people that do like v1 styled viewers just because they "inc myself" cant deal with v2/v3 interfaces.....yes v2 interfaces aka Firestorm viewer. For example why does LL not implantate Starlight skins in viewer 3?? give people the option to v1 the v3 viewer in several ways then i dont have to post here and a lot of people will be very happy yes i like blue and grey do you like black that much? i dont think you do viewer 2 was just a ripoff from windows vista and since vista is bad the whole viewer 2 was bad designed v3 is a bit better yes but come on it is still a bad viewer that doesnt allow people to customize it in a way to again.... make it more v1 able and that is my point!

Hellespont.

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I really don't have a choice. Both Firestorm and LL hang on log in and log out and put my computer  to a white screen, and things take forever to rez., if rez at all. I've adjusted as many things as I can but really don't know where to go from here. Both my computer systems are fairly new (one under 6 months), and the other upgraded it to handle heavy graphics. So... there are other issues for me besides the interface. Trust me, I've tried to embrace them. I often use either of them, as I've said before in these forums, I know they're the future.

 

  • Your issue, not mine. Does not make v1 any better. V1 has odd, backward steps too, just like v2 does, just you are used to them because you have been using v1 so long. I find v2 just as simple for designing as v1 was. In fact, some viewers like firestorm  have the sae build tools as v1/phoenix do.

Firestorm and LL Viewer is not not simpler. I know Firestorm pretty well. Don't assume someone doesn't know the other viewers just because I'm not elaborating. Your arguement that people are not "learning" these viewer is just ludicrious.  I also know Imprudence and Kirsten's viewer well.

I give up. Use what you want, and I'll use what I works for me at the moment. When it's forced on us, I'll deal with it then. I don't know why I responded to this forum.

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