Ellyn Elan Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Celestiall Nightfire wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Online, self referenced jokes can just make a person sound like a bigot to a listener who in person, might have been able to be empathic and even in the same crowd. Such a style of humor is 'best left at the door.' Pussycat, you have made a very keen observation in the above sentence. I'm going to extrapolate on that thought, as it is an important one. That online "jokes", references, and the type of humor that a poster understands...can...and very often will be misconstrued. If an online joke is worded, so that a meaning other that with which the writer intended, can be gleaned, often what will happen is that a dissenter who wishes to find an area of complaint....will pick out that "joke" and use it as an example of how the person is "bad". Then even when the poster explains their intent, the dissenter will not acknowledge the posters intent. The dissenter, can then keep trotting out the "words" that the poster wrote...and never acknowledge that the poster clarified the meaning of the words. In this manner, a war of words can be waged. By twisting the intent and meaning of another person, one can work a campaign to vilify them. Now, in Pussycat's comment above, she ends with the "best left at the door" recommendation regarding the "jokes". I *think*, part of her reason for that recommendation, is because of the very type of word manipulation that I describe. Those jokes can, and will, be used against someone...by those that dislike them. So, it's really up to the individual, if they want to take the risk of making a "joke" that could be misconstrued, and used against them. I suppose if one feels the audience is sufficiently savvy and will "get" the joke, then they are fairly safe. If not, then one takes a chance, and posts the joke or not. But, they had better be prepared for fall-out. Now, the issue is not just with the person who might make a questionable joke...but the issue is also with those that would deliberately use that joke to malign and discredit someone. This is done in politics all the time, and personally, I cringe when I see it. Particularly, if the person who wrote those words has clearly stated what the words were intended to mean. Oh, yes. This is a prime tactic of trolls both inworld and out and if you have ever been on the receiving end of it I will guarantee that it will drive you nuts. The problem is at least two-fold in that the person with the intential agenda of "misunderstanding" will keep it up and for the most part the general public doesn't pay close attention. Whoever squawks the loudest and the most often will usually win the day because it is that version that is heard. Yes, this happens in politics all the time, from all sides, and it is enough to make those of us who do pay attention start throwing things at the tv, publication, monitors, etc. while hurling invectives and reaching for chocolate and brandy! (Maybe that is just me?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellyn Elan Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Pussycat Catnap wrote: A more eloquent, or perhaps sophisticated speaker, has no need to sink into vulgarity to get a message across. Vulgarity and insult are the vehicles of an emotional loss of control over one's message. I agreed with most of your post. I think taking others into account when communicating is important if communication is truly the purpose. Communication is a sharing of information. That isn't everyone's intent on the Internet or RL. I also think there is a tendency these days to be so overly politically correct that meaningful communication is impossible, which is what Ceka was discussing. To the point that I quoted above I will say, "sometimes." I think you're right, that in most cases vulgarity and insult are not needed. However, when skillfully wielded by a person of intelligence and wit there can be nothing more potent. Some of the best quotes in the world are the witheringly disdainful insults of those with rapier wits. Churchill is one that comes to mind. :matte-motes-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 And in other news, the CTUG has been suspended until further notice: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Forums-Feedback/When-s-the-next-CTUG-meeting/m-p/1270779/highlight/false#M3378 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Randall Ahren wrote: What about Louis C.K.? He's extremely vulgar and insulting, but extraordinarily funny. I don't see anything wrong with his humor. Court jesters walked that fine line between laughter and beheading, it's no different today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If I thought for one second that something I said in direct reply to someone else would be painful to them, I'd be mortified. You can either see this as me being weak, or as me being rounded. I know which of the two I prefer to be seen as. The only place I get mad is in these forums. Should I step away? Probably, but then, who is going to sit on the left shoulder giving advice and extolling the virtues of the inworld experience while the right shoulder is telling some poor new guy to GTFO for wearing the wrong dance HUD or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 I like your strategy, Eloise. We need a few more left shoulder sitters. I would also prefer to leave others with a smile than a frown. Cinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 The feeds were a great fun place when little used. Of course the self styled comedians soon followed, so now they are no different from the *coughs humour the community has to contend with here. Until we gets mute of course. The community meetings were closed, well is that no surprise? I have never been to one because from what I could gather, those meetings would be a mirror image of the forums themselves. With all due respect If people were actually contributing anything of substance perhaps they would still be open? The majority would have attended with a view to bettering the communities experience certainly. Aloofness, be it either by use of vexacious comedy to incite and malign, or aspirations of grandeur with commentary fit for Stephen Hawkings personal notepad seems to be the biggest problem. When shared community space is seen by individuals to be of their own making or territory, is where your problems truly begin. Why does no other forum experience these phenomena to such a detrimental extent? *ponders.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 This ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Maryanne Solo wrote: When shared community space is seen by individuals to be of their own making or territory, is where your problems truly begin. Which makes what you have to say problematic, right? It's unfortunate that some people think that, simply because a person doesn't agree with them, their opinion is not being given from a place of true concern for the betterment of the community (or at least what was a community) as a whole. ...Dres *thanks god he doesn't care about this place the way he used to* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 It annoys me to hear you were subject to sad treatment Dres. I haven't been here for a bit and didn't see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sy Beck Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Maryanne Solo wrote: The feeds were a great fun place when little used. Of course the self styled comedians soon followed, so now they are no different from the *coughs humour the community has to contend with here. Until we gets mute of course. So they should remain under used or did you mean used sparingly? The community meetings were closed, well is that no surprise? I have never been to one because from what I could gather, those meetings would be a mirror image of the forums themselves. With all due respect If people were actually contributing anything of substance perhaps they would still be open? The majority would have attended with a view to bettering the communities experience certainly. So they are closed because you and a silent moral majority couldn't be bothered to attend? And what was going to be mirrored if you attended? Apathy? Aloofness, be it either by use of apathetic pontification (FIFY), vexacious comedy to incite and malign, or aspirations of grandeur with commentary fit for Stephen Hawkings personal notepad seems to be the biggest problem. When shared community space is seen by individuals to be of their own making or territory, is where your problems truly begin. No! When people do and say nothing is when problems truly begin. Why does no other forum experience these phenomena to such a detrimental extent? *ponders.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 There was no breakfast served in the CTUG, perhaps the reason some never attended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Maryanne Solo wrote: The community meetings were closed, well is that no surprise? I have never been to one because from what I could gather, those meetings would be a mirror image of the forums themselves. With all due respect If people were actually contributing anything of substance perhaps they would still be open? The majority would have attended with a view to bettering the communities experience certainly. Why does no other forum experience these phenomena to such a detrimental extent? *ponders.... It is evident that you never bothered to read the chat logs, either. If you had, you would know who attended, what was discussed, and how issues were resolved. As the meetings were always open to anyone who wished to attend, I have no idea what 'majority' you refer to. I suggest that you become better informed before you write about what you know nothing of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Maryanne Solo wrote: The feeds were a great fun place when little used. Of course the self styled comedians soon followed, so now they are no different from the *coughs humour the community has to contend with here. Until we gets mute of course. The community meetings were closed, well is that no surprise? I have never been to one because from what I could gather, those meetings would be a mirror image of the forums themselves. With all due respect If people were actually contributing anything of substance perhaps they would still be open? The majority would have attended with a view to bettering the communities experience certainly. Aloofness, be it either by use of vexacious comedy to incite and malign, or aspirations of grandeur with commentary fit for Stephen Hawkings personal notepad seems to be the biggest problem. When shared community space is seen by individuals to be of their own making or territory, is where your problems truly begin. Why does no other forum experience these phenomena to such a detrimental extent? *ponders.... It's called DIALOGUE. Something that it appears is NOT wanted now. One of the biggest benefits is that we actually got answers as the individuals involved worked to better the Forums. Right now I am of the impression that LL is treating this Forum like a pimple on it's ass. A necesary evil. It doesn't gain them exsposure like FB and Twitter does so why invest in it? This Forum could really rock, be a huge feather in LL's hat. But it will be only as good as the people involved. And to get good people involved you have to treat them with respect. If you ignore them, if you always answer them with silence, when it becomes obvious that you havn't read a word they said (look at the transcripts for the Adult Content User Group meetings if you don't believe me), you will never retain them and you will lose the awesome contributions they would have made to this Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 when were meetings posted up for the forums community?? i don't think i ever seen any..but then again maybe i was on summer break.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Venus Petrov wrote: Maryanne Solo wrote: The community meetings were closed, well is that no surprise? I have never been to one because from what I could gather, those meetings would be a mirror image of the forums themselves. With all due respect If people were actually contributing anything of substance perhaps they would still be open? The majority would have attended with a view to bettering the communities experience certainly. Why does no other forum experience these phenomena to such a detrimental extent? *ponders.... It is evident that you never bothered to read the chat logs, either. If you had, you would know who attended, what was discussed, and how issues were resolved. As the meetings were always open to anyone who wished to attend, I have no idea what 'majority' you refer to. I suggest that you become better informed before you write about what you know nothing of. I am very well informed. All one has to do is look right here ^ for a prime example. Who would bother to read them if the forums are an indicator? We all know how *valuable some of these contributions are. Thousands and thousands of comments to achieve what precisely? The community some consider their own - is nigh but dead, or you dont see that? See Ceka's comment above. "The majority would have attended" Let me elucidate for you - > The majority of people who attended the meetings < o.0 "Why does no other forum experience these phenomena to such a detrimental extent? *ponders...." < Answer that and you will have made a valuable contribution. A pimple on the parent companies posterior was a previous posters comment which is proven every day unfortunately. Having made so many of these valuable contributions, you, of all people would be witness to this :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinnamon Mistwood Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 I forgot to babysit this thread... How is it going in here? Are we all playing nicely? I thought the CTUG meetings were announced in the Forum Feedback Forum. Was I misinforumed? (I know I just made that word up, but it has a nice ring to it). I never went to one because they happened while I was at work. So, I thank all of you who could go for being my voice and giving up some of your time to try to make this a better place for all residents. It is too bad that route is now closed to us... Cinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Residents often posted notification of the CTUG meetings with a link to the agenda and then again when the local chat log was available after the meeting. I did several times and others did also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Furse Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 @ Venus ... I hope you can play below song @H2 ...... :matte-motes-big-grin-wink: *meows* PS. I got nothing but love for you (ALL) PPS. Listen to the lyrics .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Do you know what I like about the forum, we all get to voice our opinion - and everybody has an opinion. We do not all share the same opinion unless, of course, we are forced to drink the koolaid. The forum is also a place where people meet other people - they socialize. They have fun. Did you ever join a group where they 'kick you out' for not towing the line; for disagreeing? Did you ever have friends that defriended you because you did NOT take sides or had a dissenting opinion? I have. The forum will not kick you out for writing or NOT writing your opinion. With friends like that who needs enemies. That to me is the negative tone: when we are told by friends in PM's and IM's how to act and respond in the forum - OR ELSE! Ergo, the tone is set way before it comes into the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloise Baily Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I'd like to agree with you Storm, but while no-one is ACTUALLY kicked out, I do feel that the tone here is still harsh and dismissive. I saw one thread today where a regular poster, who gets much sympathy, gave a relatively new poster a roasting to their noob question...even closing their answer with </sarcasm>. No-one pulled them up on this because it's become so hardened that few people see it anymore. I hear a lot that this is forum life...well I disagree. It's internet, 4chan and Reddit life alright, but I am active in many forums and I find this one the hardest of all to feel comfortable in. I think Maryanne has a point. People stay quiet because if they don't, the same few people slap them down. I'm sorry, but that's the truth as I see and feel it. BTW...it doesn't help when those same few people are incredibly rude to forum members on a regular basis on widely known outside sites.....jus' sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maryanne Solo Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Eloise Baily wrote: BTW...it doesn't help when those same few people are incredibly rude to forum members on a regular basis on widely known outside sites.....jus' sayin' That mostly no one ever reads Except the big one of course where many creatives go which does give it some thinly veiled credibility. It's a bit of a cult thing really isn't it? :-o That of all things is the funniest of all regarding Second Life.. (trashing others on 3rd party forums) and soooo sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Eloise Baily wrote: I'd like to agree with you Storm, but while no-one is ACTUALLY kicked out, I do feel that the tone here is still harsh and dismissive. I saw one thread today where a regular poster, who gets much sympathy, gave a relatively new poster a roasting to their noob question...even closing their answer with </sarcasm>. No-one pulled them up on this because it's become so hardened that few people see it anymore. I hear a lot that this is forum life...well I disagree. It's internet, 4chan and Reddit life alright, but I am active in many forums and I find this one the hardest of all to feel comfortable in. I think Maryanne has a point. People stay quiet because if they don't, the same few people slap them down. I'm sorry, but that's the truth as I see and feel it. BTW...it doesn't help when those same few people are incredibly rude to forum members on a regular basis on widely known outside sites.....jus' sayin' Well, I'll have to disagree that the tone is harsh and dismissive. I have read my IM/PM's as harsh and dismissive - casting me as one who does not conform because of my relationships with others. I will not drink the Kool-aid. No one will reason for me. You mentioned newer residents: this forum helps newer residents more than any of the support lines that LL has in place with their staff. If it was not for the generosity of posters like Void, et al., LL would be swamped with call center questions ergo spending tons of money on staff and infrastructure to support what these older residents bring to the table. Third party forums have no bearing on this forum. RL is cruel too Eloise; if one sees it as such...jus' sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Maryanne Solo wrote: Eloise Baily wrote: BTW...it doesn't help when those same few people are incredibly rude to forum members on a regular basis on widely known outside sites.....jus' sayin' It's a bit of a cult thing really isn't it? :-o *You* would know this best. Not I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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