techie-ish question on skin/shape selection

[Simerion]

Hi,

I have a shape that I like. I also like my skin, which was free but has served me well and makes me look good. That said, I have noticed that sometimes overall I get that old school fake shoulder/weird jointed look. I need to understand if this is a function of the animation, although the new mocap stuff doesn't see to fix it so I don't think so, or the shape, because it can't do what the new tech can do, or the skin...for the same reason.

Where do I need to upgrade in order to have myself look the most realistic in poses and movements the majority of the time?

 

Also, I picked up my set at the Gorean Welcome Center and I use the sensual body shape and the bronze skin. I like it not just because it is sexy, but also because it doesn't look like a 21 year old model with impossibly long and skinny legs. I prefer to look a bit older than that and I am not into the doe eyes and giant lips although I think artistically they are beautiful. Any recommendations for a skin upgrade that still keeps the 'real woman' look without being even slightly 'girl next door'?

 

Thanks as always...this forum is such a big help to me.

[Ariel Vuissent]

It would if you could post a picture, so we could see what you mean by "fake shoulder/weird joint look."

Shapes...haven't changed much, if at all, as far as I'm aware. It could be the skin, or the animation; or it could be a combination of shape, skin, animation, and lighting issues. The default lighting is...somewhat less than flattering, and can put shadows in some pretty strange places depending on your pose. Try changing your light settings, and see if you get the same effect.

Someone else probably knows a bit better than myself, though.

[UncommonTruth]

I think I know what you're refering to in the fake weird shoulder thing. There are certain shirts/dresses I've worn that give me the something a little off impression. Check to see if its happening when wearing particular items of clothing. I've thrown out several because of it.

[Simerion]

I will try to explain it better, lol. Sometimes when I am dancing or moving, my shoulders get into positions that are anatomically impossible. As well, my neck sometimes sits strangely. I agree that outfits can sometimes cause that, but I think that it is more likely that I am wearing skin or shape that has been superceded by several generations of better technology. I know that my hands, while small and not spread out, still look a bit barbie doll-ish, as do my feet. I see many avis that look much more realistic than I do in certain ways. My avi has a smoothness to it that is still a bit cartoony. I am very attached to the overall look though, and haven't found a skin that I would trade it for yet. Like a lot of people, I am interesting in looking smokin' hot, lol...but definitely not like a sketch from W magazine. Right now I look unlike any avi that I see, and I like that. I just don't want to look like a ten year old design, you know?

[Coby Foden]

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Simerion wrote:

I have a shape that I like. I also like my skin, which was free but has served me well and makes me look good. That said, I have noticed that sometimes overall I get that old school fake shoulder/weird jointed look. I need to understand if this is a function of the animation, although the new mocap stuff doesn't see to fix it so I don't think so, or the shape, because it can't do what the new tech can do, or the skin...for the same reason.

---

SL avatar mesh is very poorly designed, bad topology and two low poly. Thus  it distorts very easily in animations and poses. It does not matter with what method the animations are made, mocap or manually frame by frame, it's the same. SL avatar can bend only so much without distortions. And this "so much" really isn't much. If the avatar mesh distorts, no skin can hide it. You can see the distortion easily if you try the animations in any shop which sells them. Almost every single animation distorts some vertices.

By doing animations manually, the animator can pay attention to the distortions and avoid such movements which distort the body. Slow and time consuming process for sure, few are prepared to do it, if any.

With mocap, well... I guess we will see even more distortion in those. The avatar body just cannot do the same movements as real human can without distortion.

The two things we would need for the animations to work better are:

• professionally designed avatar mesh with good topology (by somebody who really understand human body structure)

• more polygons in the avatar mesh

 

[Clarissa Lowell]

You could try lowering your muscular slider and/or making your shoulders slimmer in some clothes or situations or poses. Unfortunately some animations or poses distort any shape to look like a linebacker.

If your shape is copyable and modifyable, then you can copy and paste a new one into your folder, modify it this way, and rename it "slimmer shoulder shape" or something.

PS: I make shapes. Please, post a pic, and I can offer more suggestions if you want.

[Pussycat Catnap]

This sounds like a bad AO.

But getting better proportions can also help.

Get your proportions in line with the humanly possible, and you will more often animate in a humanly possible manner.

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Coby Foden wrote:

With mocap, well... I guess we will see even more distortion in those. The avatar body just cannot do the same movements as real human can without distortion. 

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I actually find, as something with a -LOT- of dance animations (I had a club for a while), the motion capture animations avoid a lot of these problems.

Then again even before I got my proportions correct, they were always close to human possible.

 

 

[Simerion]

ok, so I stopped by the vista store and I noticed that what seems to be bugging me the most is the impossible angles of wrist and ankle joints. Is that a proportion thing, the vista animations, or something to do with my skin/shape? Specifically on a lot of their dances, but not all, I look great except for the utterly stupid way my hands are right angled out from my body at the end of my arms. I'm pretty sure the mocap chick wouldn't be caught dead dancing like that. I'm willing to put the ankles down to ill-fitting boots, maybe....but no excuse for the wrists comes to mind.

[Maitimo]

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Simerion wrote:

I will try to explain it better, lol. Sometimes when I am dancing or moving, my shoulders get into positions that are anatomically impossible. As well, my neck sometimes sits strangely.

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The avatar mesh itself really sucks (still) and no skin/shape upgrade will fix that. It's mostly a combination of poor avatar mesh (LL's fault), poor animation (your AO or whatever animation you're using at the time). If your shape is high on the muscles slider it may help to reduce that a bit.

When stocking your AO, look for animations that are made from mocap (motion capture). These will be less likely to put you in anatomically impossible positions. Not much you can do when using someone else's dance machine though.

[Simerion]

on th subject of sliders...I always thought I was short, because my friends are taller than me and I don't look tall in comparison to furniture etc. I discovered yesterday that SL has me pegged at more than 6 feet tall. Is everyone in SL tall?

[Bree Giffen]

Correct. A lot of people have very tall avatars. Most people are unaware.

[Coby Foden]

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Simerion wrote:

on th subject of sliders...I always thought I was short, because my friends are taller than me and I don't look tall in comparison to furniture etc. I discovered yesterday that SL has me pegged at more than 6 feet tall. Is everyone in SL tall?

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No, everone in SL is not tall. For example I'm under 6 feet. One can see lots of realistically sized avatars too. It just depends on the place. Some places are filled with giants, some places have good number of petite realistically sized avatars.

It's some kind of misconception with many people that being as tall as possible (and as muscular as possible for many guys) would be cool. :smileytongue:

 Well, this statement was a simplification, there are many reasons why there are lots of oversized avies. One is that for some mysterious reason in the begining Linden Lab decided to make the default avatar too tall. Then there is the default camera location "looking world from the top of the tree", giving totally wrong perspective; it makes people to think that their avatar is smaller than it actually is. Then there is the bug in the avatar appearance which reports wrong height for the avatar (if remember right, this isn't corrected even yet in Linden Lab viewer). So most people do not even know the real height of their avatar.

Luckily the trend seems to be that more and more realistically sized avatars are being seen in the grid. :smileyhappy:

[Simerion]

Hmmm....a bug about height? So then how would I determine if my skin is in fact perfectly proportioned or needs adjustment? Just refer to the detailed post that uses counting heads as measurement, or is there some other reference note I should also look at?

[Coby Foden]

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Simerion wrote:

Hmmm....a bug about height? So then how would I determine if my skin is in fact perfectly proportioned or needs adjustment? Just refer to the detailed post that uses counting heads as measurement, or is there some other reference note I should also look at?

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The uncorrect avatar height is in the Linden Lab viewer. It reports the avatar bounding box height, instead of the correct avatar prim height. The bounding box is shorter than the avatar body is. Avatar prim height is the avatar height from the bottom of soles to the top of the head. Firestorm and Phoenix viewers give pretty close the correct avatar prim height.

There are lots material about avatar height and proper body proportions. If you are interested to dig into this further, here are some links:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Your-Avatar/A-Matter-of-Proportion-A-Guide-to-Shape-Making-and-the/td-p/1027693

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/tutorials/54131-creating-well-proportioned-shape.html#post1276966

http://pennycow.blogspot.com/2011/08/matter-of-proportion.html

http://pennycow.blogspot.com/2011/07/matter-of-scale.html

http://pennycow.blogspot.com/2011/07/matter-of-perspective.html

 

[Ariel Vuissent]

Not everyone in SL is tall, no. However, it's also a misconception that you "shouldn't" be tall, or that "realistically proportioned" is necessary. You can be however you choose in SL. If you choose to have an avatar at a realistic height, go for it. My avatar is approximately 6 and a half feet, and I like her proportions just fine. Her arms are as close to properly proportioned at the avatar mesh allows, her legs make up half her height, etc., so she is properly proportioned but tall (super model-ish). Nothing wrong with that. I have seen avatars with odd proportions - legs three-quarters their height, arms only going down to the hip, tiny heads relating to their body - but as long as you keep an eye on your proportions, you'll look fairly normal. (Even at 6 and a half feet, I'm often fairly short compared to other avatars, and tall compared to others. It doesn't bother me, but it seems to bother others.) There has been a "movement" recently towards avatars closer to a "human" average, likely because more and more people are noticing just how tall they really are. I'm short in RL (5'1"), so I LIKE being tall in SL. Overcompensation, I guess!

Regardless, height doesn't really affect skin that much. The skin will fit your avatar no matter how tall or short you are. The trickiest part is in the face, not because of height but because the size of certain facial features, such as lips, may not correspond to the shading and "makeup" on the skin.