LL Ignoring valid abuse reports???

Isaiah Karsin · October 19, 2011

I don't post much, but this is really getting to me. I know that I will never hear from LL about what action they take etc, but to my knowledge they have done nothing about the abuse reports I have submitted.

I will not mention names to protect the guilty person reported. What is entails is this. Person was underage on the MG back in 2007 when they joined, they are of legal age now. Used false age verification information (i.e. their mother's info). Then on top of that blatant CS/ToS violation, this person disclosed my alternate account name, has age played(proof was sent to LL), and even more.

These are all bannable offenses and I am so curious as to why this avatar is still logging in day after day, abuse reports being ignored.

I am not a premium member so I cannot contact live chat. It is just irking me that nothing is being done. I also know LL has never been consistent on what they do.

Guess I just want to vent and see if anyone here might have any suggestions on another course of action. This person and his alt are muted. I get random IMs from people telling me what they are saying.

Chelsea Malibu · October 19, 2011

AR's are a tricky subject as on one hand, LL would like us to settle disputes among ourselves and that they really don't have the resources to follow up on the thousands of AR's they get daily. More AR's on a single person move it up in their priority queue so, I would suggest that you ask other to also file AR's if they feel this is warranted.

Isaiah Karsin · October 19, 2011

Thanks for your Reply Chelsea, but don't the others have to be witness or have first hand knowledge of a said event for them to report abuse? Otherwise, it just turns into a circus with a bunch of heresay.

jennylongview Innovia · October 19, 2011

I would suggest that you ask other to also file AR's if they feel this is warranted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dose this not set a dangerous precedence, asking for a lynch mob mentality. Personally would never ask someone else for an AR, for whatever reason..

Ceka Cianci · October 19, 2011

jennylongview Innovia wrote:

I would suggest that you ask other to also file AR's if they feel this is warranted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dose this not set a dangerous precedence, asking for a lynch mob mentality. Personally would never ask someone else for an AR, for whatever reason..

ya it kind of does..see if it is found that someone is not related to the situation being AR'd they can be putting themselves at risk of AR abuse..

asking friends to AR someone for something like this and them never even meeting this person..what evidence would those people have for the AR? so it could get them into trouble if the person being AR'd finds out and decides to AR them for AR abuse or if LL see 's there is no relation..

i'm sure it's rare to have happen..but would i risk my account of 5 years for a rareity to land in my lap such as ar abuse hit ? never lol even rare is too big of odds for me to play with lol

Peggy Paperdoll · October 19, 2011

Yes the others have to have some form of direct experience for the AR to be considered valid by LL. The problem with an AR that you may have submitted that I can see is that what the person you are having this issue with did in 2007 has little or nothing to do with what this person is doing today...........if you included that in your AR that could be a reason for LL to declare that the problem is a resident to resident thing and toss the report. That's a guess on my part since I don't know what you reported this person for (it just seems that it could be some old issue that is still getting under your skin.....keep the "history" out of the AR and maybe it'll get more attention). Submitting an AR is really somewhat of an art........you need to keep it impersonal, include all the facts, provide as much information as possible, and keep emotions out of it. Not the easiest thing to do but the better you are at doing those things the more likely the AR will get serious attention. The report also has to be about some violation that is valid. Calling someone names and following them around the grid is not AR'able.........but it is irritating as hell.

When LL looks into AR's they don't just take your word for anything.........the check the server logs for verification. If what you say happened can not be backed up with logs, LL will often disregard the AR.

Ceka Cianci · October 19, 2011

how long have you been AR'ing them for this..

it can take a litttle bit for them to get to these AR's they get in..

we had a situation where this one person was iming me and others kind of stalking us trying to scare us or whatever it was they thought they were doing hehehe..

but it took a couple of months before they finally got to it..

we kept wondering why this person was still around after a month..then one day they just kind of stopped and not heard of since..

Isaiah Karsin · October 19, 2011

Disclosing of my alt name was very recent. Within the last 2 weeks and was reported the day it happened as I got a random IM and it was verified that in fact my name was shared.

As for someone faking their way onto the grid and using their mothers rl info so they could access adult regions, escort, and more(yes this happened.) shows a serious flaw in LL and the way they do age verifications. I just recently heard that all they do now is have you throw in a birthdate since they got rid of the 3rd party company for leaking account info. I just wonder what is gonna happen when some kids parents sues the hell out of LL for being so laxidasical in preventing minors from accessing adult areas.

I have done what I can do. Guess LL saw it as a resident to resident dispute and won't get involved.

Thank you all for your replies and have fun in your SL quests.

*edited for typos and grammar*

Peggy Paperdoll · October 19, 2011

Disclosing your alt's name without your permission is a ToS violation.........sort of. Using my alt as an example. I don't list my alt on my profile page (neither mine or my alt's). But it's pretty easy to make a very good guess about who my alt is by looking at my profile. I've also mentioned my alt's name to several people in SL. And I've even mentioned my alt's name in these forums in the past. So would it be believable that disclosing my alt's name to others be violating my personal information? Pretty hard sell since I've openly (and willingly) disclosed that information myself several times. If logs show that if I AR'd someone for such a violation, LL is going to toss my AR. So, it does depend on exactly what happened and how it happened. Now if someone disclosed my real life name that would be different since I've never given any indication to anyone in SL of who I am in real life.

SL dropped the Aristole age verification because it didn't work for many people outside the US........not for Aristole leaking private information. There has been no evidence that that ever happened..........in fact your statement is the first I've heard about such an incident. The method LL uses now is a CYA for LL............it puts the onus on the person making the false statement about age on the person doing it. Not that such a policy could not be defeated in a court of law, but it makes it quite a bit more difficult to do so. There is no fool proof way to age verify anyone on the Internet.....and the click through declaration method is as good as any (and it works universally).

Isaiah Karsin · October 19, 2011

How I understood my name was disclosed was said avatar was at a location talking to someone else. My friendship with them ended through some very despicable things that they did. Through the course of this conversation, blahblahblah this name was mentioned, Isaiah Karsin. Then this avatar goes something like(I won't use what I got in world as that is a violation), "Do you know that he has an alt and blahblahblah," and then disclosed my name to possibly defame myself.

I take the CS/ToS very seriously. Granted, I may be making a big deal out of this. But there is no linking in either profile to this name and that of my alt. I am mainly on this name yes, as it is my work name and the one people know me under. I don't use my alt for sexual purposes. Just merely a name to escape, window shop, explore without being bothered.

I know this person's alt as well. I have never disclosed that name to anyone and I won't. I may not like them any longer, but I still hold myself to the standards and integrity that my parents taught me while growing up.

Cathbodva Clarity · October 19, 2011

In simple words, Abuse Reports are useless.

At least 3 people sent dozens of abuse reports about the same thing for months, nothing was done until now, no word, no nothing.

Absolutly useless.

Dilbert Dilweg · October 19, 2011

For the credit card and the lieing you would have to supply a pretty damming case for that to hold water

For the alt disclosure. Eh, It would be a warning and not a ban.

LL would probably see this as a resident dispute of a friendship gone

lol

Isaiah Karsin · October 19, 2011

See, that is where you are wrong. I don't care what this person does any longer as long as it does not directly affect me. Disclosing my alt name directly affected me.

As for the lying on his account, I have that information as does LL in their chat logs. It was stated in IMs between myself and this other avatar. So if LL would investigate, the information is there along with the reports of the ageplay, screenshots included from the report abuse.

And before any of you go saying that I am stalking this partuclar avatar, you have no clue. My partner and I are starting a family and we happened to run across a panel of theirs at an adoption place. Application inside was a teenager application with a quoted avatar age. Then low and behold, they had another panel up at a dating place saying they are looking for something serious in SL with an adult avatar. To me, that is ageplay intent and definitely reportable.

Again, thanks to those who have replied, but this is just going to turn into something other than what the topic was created for so this is my last posting.

Eloise Baily · October 19, 2011

Isaiah, you may not respond, but I hope you are still reading.

If the only contact you have left with them is through random IMs then mute them too, the moment you get it. Friends will understand if you say to them. "I'm not interested. SERIOUSLY man, once more and I'm gonna have to mute you for my own peace of mind". Those who don't understand are not your friends. They are people who like the excitement of it all. It's a soap opera to them.

As for the disclosing of your alt. I wish I could advise you on that. I would ask your friends to respect your reasons for having one. If your alt moves in the same circles as your main socially, that might be harder to do.

Tormented Twilight · October 19, 2011

Well, my personal advice is don't do anything on an alt account that you wouldn't want others to know about on your main account.

That's if you care deeply about what others think about your main or alt's activities in SL.

That probably doesn't help you but...that's my advice.

Marigold Devin · October 19, 2011

Isaiah Karsin wrote:

I don't post much, but this is really getting to me. I know that I will never hear from LL about what action they take etc, but to my knowledge they have done nothing about the abuse reports I have submitted.

I will not mention names to protect the guilty person reported. What is entails is this. Person was underage on the MG back in 2007 when they joined, they are of legal age now. Used false age verification information (i.e. their mother's info). Then on top of that blatant CS/ToS violation, this person disclosed my alternate account name, has age played(proof was sent to LL), and even more.

These are all bannable offenses and I am so curious as to why this avatar is still logging in day after day, abuse reports being ignored.

I am not a premium member so I cannot contact live chat. It is just irking me that nothing is being done. I also know LL has never been consistent on what they do.

Guess I just want to vent and see if anyone here might have any suggestions on another course of action. This person and his alt are muted. I get random IMs from people telling me what they are saying.

The fact is, the abuse report(s) could have been dealt with, and you'll never get to know about it. LL used to have a police blotter on their website, listing the most recent cases they'd actioned (they never used avatar names, but often the location was given and this let you know if they'd acted on your AR).

LL might have asked them for proper documentation and been provided with enough to prove this person could stay inworld.

As for disclosing your alt's name, they would probably only get a warning for that anyway. I've never known anyone get more than a warning or a 1 day suspension for disclosing just an alt name. Disclosure of RL information might be treated slightly differently, but LL don't see it as a hanging offence, and the people who deal with the ARs submitted don't seem to be consistent about how they action them. And undoubtedly, at a rate of approximately 10 ARs per minute, they can't physically deal with all the ARs they receive.

I feel strongly that you need to try and ignore this person's presence from now on. The fact that you have muted them isn't enough, if you have other people sending you chatlogs of what that person has been saying. Try and move on from this, because it's sounded like a tit for tat schoolyard spat really.

wiked Anton · October 20, 2011

i think the closest you can get is forcing everyone to supply payment information (credit card) and with every account i mean, so all alt would tie back to the one person (LL's information only) and i am not sure how many parents would give out the credit card details just so the kid could "play a game that was free anyway" i know there would be ways around it, but it would make it harder and those with nothing to hide shouldn't mind. i have never had a p[roblem with age verification or my cc details.

Peggy Paperdoll · October 20, 2011

I age verified years ago through Integrity (the Aristotle sysem). I never got spammed like many said I would. I never any form of identity disclosure problem. It worked flawlessly for me (I'm in the USA). And I always could (still can) access adult content in SL. For years LL has had my correct email address, my correct real life street address (I used to get a quarterly magazine put out by LL), and my active credit card information. Nothing bad has ever happened to me. But, then, I do take my Internet security seriously and take the precausions to keep it secure (password changes periodically but not any schedule that can be predicted ahead of time being one of the most important).

Elle Crescendo · October 20, 2011

I had exactly the same situation, my Alt account was exposed via a notice to a group of 200+ it was done deliberately and with nasty intent,not by accident. I AR’d gave the date and a copy of the notice, to my knowledge nothing happened.

Even worse, there is not one person that knew my alternative account, just me and LL, so there is more than one privacy issue at stake in this situation. This person is either using illegal tools or has affiliations, in this case it’s likely the latter.

Marianne Little · October 20, 2011

Hi Isaiah, like many others has stated, LL has more actions than a ban. It seems to me that disclosing of an alt would warrant a brief suspension.

Ageplay accusations is sadly been abused as an griefer tool. I have read numerous stories about it the last years, about ppl falsely reporting an avatar as underage or doing ageplay. The LL policy was to close the account while they were investigating. If said avatar had his account closed, he could send LL some ID papers copy, and they would open it again.

A popular way of griefing was to file an AR on Friday, knowing the the accused avatar would not get in contact with LL before business hours Monday. This was how griefers could deliberatly ruin their victims weekend and could also injure that persons business, let us say he/she was a DJ/model/dealing with customers and lost jobs because he/she could not be trusted to show up. These false ARs would finally lead to LL not trusting Abuse reports from a single person. Maybe they even changed their policy so they check if the accused has verified, and then just close the report.

Your tone sound a bit like an "internet nanny". It could have rung a suspision for the LL employee who were reading it. I don't know about how they deal with ARs, but I assume that they sort out what they suspect is personal grudges and then just close them. It is so many ARs filed every day, and not enough time to investigate them all. That is why it is recommended that several ppl file ARs, since that makes the issue more serious.

Mayalily · October 20, 2011

Couldn't you copy and paste the IM into a notecard, and then pass that notecard to the sim owner? Perhaps the sim owner will put in a temporary ban until the underage is investigated?

But, I think you said the person in question is now not underage, so perhaps people could do this for other underager's? (Send copy/paste of evidence to the sim owner in a notecard).

Ceka Cianci · October 20, 2011

Mayalily wrote:

Couldn't you copy and paste the IM into a notecard, and then pass that notecard to the sim owner? Perhaps the sim owner will put in a temporary ban until the underage is investigated?

But, I think you said the person in question is now not underage, so perhaps people could do this for other underager's? (Send copy/paste of evidence to the sim owner in a notecard).

that could get the one passing that information into trouble..especially if it were about minors rl information..

that can earn someone a perma ban if LL picked up on that log while investigating..

they get real touchy about minors information and disclosure of it..

maybe telling the sim owner about the person and that you have already AR'd under the suspicion of them being under aged would be better..

i mean someone can tell us they are under aged..but that doesn't mean it's true..some people rp that deep to give the impression that they are really younger than they are..

that information may not even be the information of the one claiming to be younger..

and also..do we really know who we are giving the information to? maybe they have alts that are into kids..not saying that is the case..i'm just saying it's not a good idea to pass that info along if it is found to be valid rl information hehehe

if LL chooses to ignore it then maybe the information did not check out and they were actually lying about thier age hehehe

this may be why nothing was done about the age part of it if they were being AR'd when they were claiming to be too young to be on those sections..

erotic age play..now thats a different ballgame..they are doing that with their avatar and avatar name and profile and everything else that shows them playing a child..real proof can be found about that..AR them and also tell the sim owner..

Mayalily · October 20, 2011

Ceka Cianci wrote: