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Eric Castanea

Message to LL: Why should I run V2 when there are other options with twice the performance?

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I try every single version, and it's the same every time. Half the FPS as several alternatives, including some TPV V2 based versions. If they can do it, why can't you? I don't understand.

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Yup, and with each new version of viewer2 fps keeps dropping.

With 1.2.3.5 and 2.7.2 i have 35-40 fps, then 2.7.3 it went down ~10, and with 2.7.4 it's only 5-7... really rediculous.

Indeed, you are not alone...

 

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My experience is different than yours, and you should use whatever viewer works best for your system. That said, V1 versions are history and there's no point in discussing them; they will become unusable after mesh rolls out to the grid. As far as V2's are ocncerned, you obviously need to tweak your settings when running LL's V2. In fact I tweak my settings for each viewer I run and at one time or another I use them all. Only one V2 TPV uses Kakadu for the graphics rendering (that's what the LL V2's use, too) and I use it and it gets 80-85% the FPS of the standard LL V2. The LL Development Viewer V2 (Snowstorm) is even faster than the current LL standard V2although alittle less stable (it's a development viewer). The other TPV V2's use a different, and slower, graphics renderer and they get about 70% of the FPS of the standard LL V2. That's my experience. Your mileage may vary. But always keep in mind that no matter how much you dislike LL and it's viewer, the other viewers are all made from the LL viewer and without the LL V2, we would have no viewers. Have a nice day.

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Indeed. I can have higher graphics settings in some TPV's and it still beats the pants off LL's newest V2, FPS wise. 

If TPV's can do it, LL should be able to. That's my point.

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Eric Castanea wrote:

I try every single version, and it's the same every time. Half the FPS as several alternatives, including some TPV V2 based versions. If they can do it, why can't you? I don't understand.

Yes, but look at all the bells and whistles you get with LL's V2, and, and, and, look at the great big mesh that is coming!

I just wonder what all these "improvements" are doing to the retention rates and concurrency? It has got to be having some sort of big impact. Right?

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Eric Castanea wrote:

I just downloaded the latest development viewer. 6fps! So it's getting worse and worse. Nobody is going to stay at 6fps! Certainly not me.

Then use a different viewer.  Remember that SL is unusual in allowing it's users to have the benefit of third-party viewers.  It is a fact of life, and IT, that some machines work better than others with certain software,  Yes, Viewer 2 does not run as fast as it should, especially as it has tidied up the Viewer 1 code and still manages to be slower!  But LL do allow us choice - so we might as well make the most of it if we need to.

BTW I get 15fps in LL's Viewer 2 on a netbook - it doesn't suck that bad for everyone.

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Play with your grahphics settings. In V2, if I'm standing still, I peak at 95 FPS. And that's still with most graphics settings maxed.

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You've offered no technical details or system specs. Seemed more like you were just saying V2 doesn't run well. I was offering evidence that it can, depending on your system and your settings.

If you want helpful feedback, post your system specs and some of your settings, maybe we can figure out why your system is having so much trouble with it.

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Gadget Portal wrote:

You've offered no technical details or system specs. Seemed more like you were just saying V2 doesn't run well. I was offering evidence that it can, depending on your system and your settings.

If you want helpful feedback, post your system specs and some of your settings, maybe we can figure out why your system is having so much trouble with it.

Should any of that be necessary if V2 was well designed in the first place? Sheesh, it has been out for 18 months and still drives people crazy!

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I never claimed it was well made. This is easily the buggiest, most poorly designed software I've ever used.

That doesn't mean you can't tweak it, or your system, to handle it better.

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you dont have to use viewer 2 if you dont want to.

thats why linden lab allows the creation of third party viewers, so anyone can log in with the viewer they prefer the most.

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I stated explicitly that that V2 runs at 5fps. I can get 25fps with EVERY other viewer I've tried. There is nothing wrong with my system configuration. Evidently, you didn't read or understand the original post. Many other people have this problem, as you can see by the multiple threads in this forum.  And I certainly don't need your "help".  I didn't ask for it, either.

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

you dont have to use viewer 2 if you dont want to.

thats why linden lab allows the creation of third party viewers, so anyone can log in with the viewer they prefer the most.

So it is now.

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So if you don't need or want my help, why'd you complain that my post wasn't helpful?

Clearly there IS something wrong with your system, if you're getting 5 FPS, but if you get better FPS with another viewer, just use another viewer? I'm not really seeing the issue, I guess.

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I think you answered your own question.  Performance isn't necessarily their goal, but doing what they think they can do to help new users climb aboard is.  They don't close down third party options that play by their rules so users can develop their own viewers that focus on various other aspects and features that aren't necessarily the focus of the mainline viewer.

Or, the TLDR version: "Working as designed."

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All I have to say is look at how technology is advancing when it comes to software and computer graphics.

It's getting to the point where if you don't have a decent computer to meet the requirements of most things, then there really isn't anything you're going to be able to do.

I'm all in favor of LL's decision to remove V1 Viewer support, because honestly, it is their source code where they can do anything they want with it, regardless of any current TPVs being out there, it doesn't mean people can't develop TPVs for V2, like Firestorm currently is.

I've had close to no issues with Viewer 2 other than the recent updates they've rolled out which removed the Lighting and Shadow's feature, where people have to use the Development/Beta client for viewer 2 until the issue has been fixed.

Normally, I run V2 at ultra settings with all options on and it runs at around 20-30 FPS, but obviously lowers in places where there are a lot of people.

All I can really say is - It's time for people to dish out their cash and invest in better rigs, meant for gaming, because I believe that somewhere down the line LL is going to try to turn SL's graphics into say something in similarity of CryEngine's sandbox and whatnot, and yes I know not everyone is made of money and can't afford the best hardware available, but I'm just saying.

Someday LL will get it right, where they balance both the performance of their viewer & servers, along with making it look presentable to people that are enthusiasts when it comes to graphics.

That's my two cents at least.

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Jayvell Villota wrote:

All I have to say is look at how technology is advancing when it comes to software and computer graphics.

It's getting to the point where if you don't have a decent computer to meet the requirements of most things, then there really isn't anything you're going to be able to do.

I'm all in favor of LL's decision to remove V1 Viewer support, because honestly, it is their source code where they can do anything they want with it, regardless of any current TPVs being out there, it doesn't mean people can't develop TPVs for V2, like Firestorm currently is.

I've had close to no issues with Viewer 2 other than the recent updates they've rolled out which removed the
Lighting and Shadow's
feature, where people have to use the
Development/Beta
client for viewer 2 until the issue has been fixed.

Normally, I run V2 at ultra settings with all options on and it runs at around 20-30 FPS, but obviously lowers in places where there are a lot of people.

All I can really say is - It's time for people to dish out their cash and invest in better rigs, meant for gaming, because I believe that somewhere down the line LL is going to try to turn SL's graphics into say something in similarity of CryEngine's sandbox and whatnot, and yes I know not everyone is made of money and can't afford the best hardware available, but I'm just saying.

Someday LL will get it right, where they balance both the performance of their viewer & servers, along with making it look presentable to people that are enthusiasts when it comes to graphics.

That's my two cents at least.

 

I don't think SL will ever be in the same league as CryEngine- the user generated content (particularly the really bad builds) bring it down.

That said, you're right about everything else. If you want to play in a modern 3D world, you gotta get modern hardware to do it.

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I don't need to buy a new computer each year to work with 3d or video editing, so why should we need to buy a new computer each year just for SL? no sense, sorry.
Would agree updating a 5 year old  pc, but they can't ask people to update computers each year...

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Catwise Yoshikawa wrote:

I don't need to buy a new computer each year to work with 3d or video editing, so why should we need to buy a new computer each year just for SL? no sense, sorry.

Would agree updating a 5 year old  pc, but they can't ask people to update computers each year...

Who said you have to update every year? The only people I hear say that are using it as an excuse to not update at all. Most gamers don't update that often. Games certainly don't need the latest and greats to run. It's a myth spread around by luddites to make themselves feel better about not updating.

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Catwise Yoshikawa wrote:

I don't need to buy a new computer each year to work with 3d or video editing, so why should we need to buy a new computer each year just for SL? no sense, sorry.

Would agree updating a 5 year old  pc, but they can't ask people to update computers each year...

Because certain builders take a "I have a super-badass computer and if you don't, screw you" attitude towards not building for efficiency and not becoming a fully competant designer who can do more with less.

 

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Yoki Enoch wrote:


Canoro Philipp wrote:

you dont have to use viewer 2 if you dont want to.

thats why linden lab allows the creation of third party viewers, so anyone can log in with the viewer they prefer the most.

So it is now.

Don't expect that to change any time soon, there's more PR to be gained by being open.  To look at an extreme example, Linus Torvalds isn't exactly wearing a target on his back despite being the lynchpin of a multibillion dollar industry.  Bill Gates sleeps in a volcanoproof bunker.

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