Update from Patch Linden on "Spicy Content"

[Zalificent Corvinus]

17 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

if Philip Rosedale and his friends all those years ago just wanted to make some money they could have just flipped some land IRL and never built Linden Worlds.

What they tried making money with was "VR Goggle accessories", those cyber gloves and digi-boots, so you could grab and kick in VR.

That failed.

They paid for all that wasted effort with other peoples money, and those other people wanted a rreturn on their investment, so Philip the Dreamer had to qyuickly come up with SOMETHING the company owned that SOMEBODY would pay for, so their test bed software became Linden worlds.

 

That's the harsh reality. He didn't set out to build some pipe dream Communityism Utopia.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

19 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Obviously LL needs to make a profit.

But at the same time, if Philip Rosedale and his friends all those years ago just wanted to make some money they could have just flipped some land IRL and never built Linden Worlds.

I feel like this money worship thing going on might be losing sight of basic humanity and the desire to live somewhere nice, look out of your window and not see nuclear wasteland.

Thats what Belli and soon to be Belli Adult Lite are for 😂

I suppose if you lived in a rat infested ghetto in RL you would be drawn to the suburban safeness of Belli, but some of us that live in the suburbs in RL might desire something edgier, thats one purpose of mainland.

[NaomiLocket]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

It's land, STOP thinking like an RL Business Unsavvy Karen.

They are selling you a plot of digital land, not an attractive house, or a condo, or a commercial property with existing customers. JUST a piece of dirt. THE only value it can EVER have is "do you want it badly enough to pay for it".

You have a severe comprehension problem. When I say most fail to give me a value proposition with their land, I am not just talking land sales. If you had a three digit IQ you'd have understood second life's larger experience based design and the function of that land when the land use is a business or club.

Being a land flipper is not exclusively tied to opinion of media dissing 'you lot'. Neither do I explicitly tie you specifically to being one, though you like to flip all over the place between talking about flipping buddies and how the flipper scam works. To other flippers being stupid in your own words.

So it comes across that you're continuing to take offense that I haven't been stupid fodder for flippers, and actually took time to look at various plots to actually use them for personal reasons not business reasons. And in the process keeping out of the larger portion of the flippers profits.

[Qie Niangao]

56 minutes ago, NaomiLocket said:

The amount of times I have had things slow down to the point I could see myself falling from a vehicle only to be put back on later - and have the warnings disabled to not hear the screaming about badly placed animation permissions. Yeah that doesn't leave me with very much confidence with that.

Oh, in case I gave the wrong impression: It's not enough to be thrown by the vehicle on no-object-entry land, it's that the vehicle then has to get stuck trying to pass onto another no-object-entry parcel after crossing into another region. This is like an edge-case of a corner-crossing, so this part is worse on Zindra but it's not that common anywhere.

In fact, Bellisseria is the another place where they used no-object-entry for roads, rails, waterways, etc., but having learned from Zindra they didn't typically put stuff on sim borders so the problem in Belli usually arises when vehicles encounter no-object-entry on private parcels having thrown the driver while on Governor's land in a different region.

(No-object-entry is almost never what a Mainland dweller really wants, even if it sounds good. It's a prescription for surrounding your parcel with stranded stuff that you can't return yourself—usually not vehicles but stuff that escaped somebody's distant Build Tool.)

To the larger point, yeah, border crossings fail too often, discourage vehicle use, and have so many weird failure conditions it's going to take a long concerted effort to make a difference, although they do seem to be plugging away at it. We might expect some improvement with the pending server release that streamlines teleports. Fingers crossed. 

[NaomiLocket]

3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

(No-object-entry is almost never what a Mainland dweller really wants, even if it sounds good. It's a prescription for surrounding your parcel with stranded stuff that you can't return yourself—usually not vehicles but stuff that escaped somebody's distant Build Tool.)

Conversations with you are valuable. I'm just going to take the time to directly thank you for that.

[Clem Marques]

18 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

1 hour ago, Ramen Jedburgh said:

Because it's bad for new users and new users retention.

A new user comes in to the mainland and sees swaths of empty barren spaces. They see nothingness, and assume that SL is "dead" and just leave.

That is great that LL is making money now, but it's bad for the long term.

Im not talking about G and M land. Im talking about Zindra, which is almost 100% occupied.

Besides, noobs don’t wander around mainland looking at the emptiness, they hit the busy clubs looking for ze sexz

I agree with @BilliJo Aldrin's comment on this.

Regarding the one she quoted:

If people use their parcels to build in skyboxes, the land would also look empty to new users wandering around and taking a look at buildings on the ground-level of Mainland. Despite looking empty, those parcels are being fully used.

So are skyboxes bad as well then, for adding to the alleged "They see nothingness, and assume that SL is "dead" and just leave." problem? Or is seemingly "empty" land only bad when it's being sold? Just curious... 

Edited June 28 by Clem Marques

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, NaomiLocket said:

When I say most fail to give me a value proposition with their land, I am not just talking land sales. If you had a three digit IQ you'd have understood second life's larger experience based design and the function of that land when the land use is a business or club.

Blah blah blah "larger experience" blah blah.

Heard that worthless sh*te so many times from Captain Oldbie Fossils foaming at the mouth about how other people in SL don't use land the way Captain Oldbie want's them to.

Next you'll say something REALLY stupid like "SL is supposed to be a social platform".

 

Time and again you've made your position clear. You don't like people owning land and not using it the way YOU think they should.

Your UTTERLY fraudulent BS claims that you and your "Communityism" goosesteppers have some imaginary "right" to demand that LL remove somebody else's land from the region because YOU don't think they are using it enough.

Your UTTERLY fraudulent claim that LL have an Anti-Land-Flipper policy, and that "somehow" flippers are "getting away with it".

Your UTTERLY fraudulent claim that there is some sort of URGENT need for more and "better" roads, when in reality, hardly anyone ever uses the bloody things.

 

8 minutes ago, NaomiLocket said:

Neither do I explicitly tie you specifically to being one

You did EXACTLY that when you referred to me specifically, with "You lot" and "You", when replying to my post.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

No-object-entry is almost never what a Mainland dweller really wants

Nonsense. It effectively STOPS other peoples trash ending up on MY land.

 

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It's a prescription for surrounding your parcel with stranded stuff that you can't return yourself

Only if the land around yours is owned by idiots who allow object entry.

So you are saying land owners should be idiots, because some other land owners are idiots.

Remind me again why I usually use the "well deserved sarcastic mocking laughter" reaction button on your posts.

 

[Clem Marques]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

12 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

No-object-entry is almost never what a Mainland dweller really wants

Nonsense. It effectively STOPS other peoples trash ending up on MY land.

I also turn object entry off on all the parcels I own. I got tired of finding random cars parked or crashed INSIDE my roadside home. 

Edited June 28 by Clem Marques

[Qie Niangao]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Only if the land around yours is owned by idiots who allow object entry.

No. Think about it. How might stuff get stranded there? I'm pretty sure you can figure it out.

[Qie Niangao]

Just now, Clem Marques said:

I also turn object entry off on all the parcels I own. I got tired of finding random cars parked INSIDE my roadside home. 

That's what auto-return is for.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

So are skyboxes bad as well then

Remember that loud-mouthed noob-idiot, 5 or 6 years back, who, 5 weeks into SL, demanded that skyboxes be banned, and all skybox owners forcibly relocated to private estate region based detention camps pending exile to Sansar because "Sansar was made for anti-social people"?

The same noob idiot who claimed all the avatars on Zindra were "dummy avatars and npc's" because when he IM'd them in their skyboxes to ask for "teh slex" they didn't respond.

 

 

[NaomiLocket]

Time to debunk some useless trash speak.

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Next you'll say something REALLY stupid like "SL is supposed to be a social platform".

I don't care how social you do or do not feel second life is. I'm not the most social person myself. But there are certain limits and means of behavior I keep myself to unless I have a reason otherwise. How social others want to be is up to them. I'll choose to contribute to that, or not.

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Time and again you've made your position clear. You don't like people owning land and not using it the way YOU think they should.

Your UTTERLY fraudulent BS claims that you and your "Communityism" goosesteppers have some imaginary "right" to demand that LL remove somebody else's land from the region because YOU don't think they are using it enough.

Your UTTERLY fraudulent claim that LL have an Anti-Land-Flipper policy, and that "somehow" flippers are "getting away with it".

Your UTTERLY fraudulent claim that there is some sort of URGENT need for more and "better" roads, when in reality, hardly anyone ever uses the bloody things.

 

You did EXACTLY that when you referred to me specifically, with "You lot" and "You", when replying to my post.

 

Official Mainland Policies are not fraudulent claims. They are very clear about it. I was also very clear about it. And that flipping in the wider sense was not against it and supported. The only person being fraudulent is some raving demon.

Additionally. I personally hold opposing views to some others that overstep the mark on landholders. I have a more centered and moderate position. I have never been fully against or fully for security orbs as long as they are used responsibly and don't interfere with any of the labs official policies.

You're just flying off the handle attacking the one person that would probably back you up about orbs like a silly goose. But you do you. I own land myself. I have a shared interest in balanced rights.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

No. Think about it. How might stuff get stranded there? I'm pretty sure you can figure it out.

Yeah yeah, we know you are PRO Over-Entitled Vehicle Vagrant Anti-Privacy Griefer.

We just don't care.

Criminal Trespassers get punt kicked and banned, if the neighbour is an idiot, and sets their land up wrong, that's the neighbour's problem, NOT mine. Abandoned Vehicle Vagrant litter on your land, doesn't bother ME in the slightest, just as long as it's not on MY land.

[Clem Marques]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

7 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

I also turn object entry off on all the parcels I own. I got tired of finding random cars parked INSIDE my roadside home. 

That's what auto-return is for.

I have friends who leave some of their items in my parcels, such as furniture, pets, etc. despite not being part of my land group. If I set up auto-return, wouldn't all of their stuff just get returned?

I found it easier to just turn off object entry. That way my guests and their friends who are inside my parcel can still build freely, meanwhile outsiders cant litter by tossing objects into my parcel.

I could be wrong about this, of course. But that's how I've done it so far. Is there a better way to do it?

Edited June 28 by Clem Marques

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Is there a better way to do it?

No.

 

[Clem Marques]

4 minutes ago, NaomiLocket said:

I have never been fully against or fully for security orbs as long as they are used responsibly and don't interfere with any of the labs official policies.

Oh no... here we go again.

[NaomiLocket]

2 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Oh no... here we go again.

No we don't go here again. I have argued against enough people that were vehemently against the orbs to the point I had to tell them they were going way too far with it. People do have a right to privacy and protect their position with the activities they are doing in accordance to the tos. That is where Zali and I would agree about orbs. I just don't go around calling everyone a criminal tresspass. But in terms of actual criminal tresspass I have experiences and object to and expect to enforce actual criminal tresspass off my own land as much as she would hers.

[Qie Niangao]

1 minute ago, Clem Marques said:

I have friends who leave some of their items in my parcels, such as furniture, pets, etc. despite not being part of my land group. If I set up auto-return, wouldn't all of their stuff just get returned?

I found it easier to just turn off object entry. That way my guests and their friends who are inside my parcel can still build freely, meanwhile outsiders cant litter by bringing objects into my parcel.

I could be wrong about this, of course. But that's how I've done it so far. Is there a better way to do it?

If they can't set stuff to the same group as the land, then yeah, it gets complicated. There is a scripted way to return stuff from everybody who isn't on a list of approved owners (or just everything that can't be uniquely identified by other means) using a combination of object detection methods, llGetObjectDetails, and llReturnObjectsByID, but it's way more efficient to use the group setting if possible.

One reason auto-return used to be the only viable approach is now less ubiquitous: leakage of objects into parcels set with no object entry. That setting used to have many easy ways to be defeated by griefers (and even just by sloppy Build Tool operation across region borders); now those are neither so easy nor so common.

[Extrude Ragu]

58 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Philip the Dreamer

You said it without me having to say it.

It wasn't just money. Sure he has to make money, but in the end Philip likes to dream and imagine things that don't exist. That is why we have Second Life.

Philip could have easily made money any other way, taking some uninspired path that the masses have already trampled down for him, but he didn't.

[Arwyn Quandry]

If the infohub for the adult experience is A rated, nothing stopping anyone from demonstrating their Sex Anywhere HUDs there! Sounds like an opportunity! 

[Arielle Popstar]

13 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

You said it without me having to say it.

It wasn't just money. Sure he has to make money, but in the end Philip likes to dream and imagine things that don't exist. That is why we have Second Life.

Philip could have easily made money any other way, taking some uninspired path that the masses have already trampled down for him, but he didn't.

Maybe too it is why Opensimulator is still a thing after 17 years. The code wasn't handed over on a silver platter but there been times over the years that I've wondered if it hasn't been controlled by SL in some ways. Not obviously but it follows pretty much lockstep with sl. Maybe in some ways Opensimulator was more Philips dream but SL is the reality of what is needed for an active continuing commercial community.

Edited June 28 by Arielle Popstar
grammar

[NaomiLocket]

15 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

Philip could have easily made money any other way, taking some uninspired path that the masses have already trampled down for him, but he didn't.

Sort of. Internet history kind of played out slightly differently but you're not far enough off to split hairs. The fabled rig didn't turn out. There were other platforms of this kind. Philip obviously had more passion, and with passion and investment it was made bigger and better. It is also more practical. VR would touch that initial interest of his. Which is where he went off to also now that - that also became more practical. The expansion of the LSL function list and its growth over time is in its own way a record of how far it has (SL) come despite some criticisms we might give it in places. But if anything can be said about him (Philip) is that he kept following his passion and didn't leave it.

Edited June 28 by NaomiLocket

[discussionbot]

1 hour ago, NaomiLocket said:

I have never been fully against or fully for security orbs as long as they are used responsibly and don't interfere with any of the labs official policies.

What constitutes 'responsible use' of a security orb? Is there a link to the Lab's official policy regarding orb use?

[Madi Melodious]

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Seek help. Please.

Really?  You took any of that seriously?   I thought the whole line about opening up SL to the "religious right" would be a dead giveaway.  

Now then, I think my point has been made.   Truthfully, everything I said was and is true.  Most of, if not all of SL problems come from the inclusion adult content.   Getting rid of it would solve those problems.    It would also doom the platform.

My point being that trying to get rid of, or confine a large portion of the user base strictly because of the size of the AV we chose to play is not the problem.  We don't have anything to do with your adult erotic phantasies.  So, leave us out of your griping and complaining.

We are happily to stay in our side of the grid and stay out of your adult activates.  Stop dragging our community through the mud every time the subject comes up. 

 

 

Edited June 28 by Madi Melodious