SL should have object decay

[Roxy Couturier]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Depends whether it was the cash inflow that was primary reason or the continued logging in of those who invested. 

Either way, it doesn't matter. They paid for a service and by investing in SL, became invested in SLDid the money make a difference, or having people committed to be there day after day in those early days. I've heard stories from people that were around in the early days and they knew each other because the community was smaller.

I also doubt that those founder 4096 plots are 'eating up' the grid. Any build not on abandoned land is paid for. Period.

[Roxy Couturier]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

We should have a "Founders Day"!

Only if you supply the sweetrolls.

And cola.

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Either way, it doesn't matter. They paid for a service and by investing in SL, became invested in SLDid the money make a difference, or having people committed to be there day after day in those early days. I've heard stories from people that were around in the early days and they knew each other because the community was smaller.

I also doubt that those founder 4096 plots are 'eating up' the grid. Any build not on abandoned land is paid for. Period.

Sure it matters. I see this in Opensim regularly. Someone starts up a grid and tries to attract residents who are offered a loss leading price on a sim to keep them coming back but eventually those monies are eaten up by the continued requirement of funds to keep the Grid up. The sim investment attracts one sort but many others are attracted by the population that log in. If those who bought a cheap sim stop logging in, the advantage given them becomes an even greater loss because their lack of presence is no longer attracting new people. If this extends to them not coming back for years, the grid still has to pay for the ram and storage of keeping the sim up so that eventually, one is paying to keep sims up that are no longer being used. It is an ongoing loss that no longer benefits from the owners addition to the concurrency.

I have a a few regions on a grid that I donated money for in their early days but no longer go there. They are more then welcome to take my sims down but up to now at least the owner sees a benefit because they are nice regions. I'm sure if they were considered eye sores they would be taken down and I would not blame the owner in the least, in spite of the monies I put in.

[Roxy Couturier]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Sure it matters. I see this in Opensim regularly. Someone starts up a grid and tries to attract residents who are offered a loss leading price on a sim to keep them coming back but eventually those monies are eaten up by the continued requirement of funds to keep the Grid up. The sim investment attracts one sort but many others are attracted by the population that log in. If those who bought a cheap sim stop logging in, the advantage given them becomes an even greater loss because their lack of presence is no longer attracting new people. If this extends to them not coming back for years, the grid still has to pay for the ram and storage of keeping the sim up so that eventually, one is paying to keep sims up that are no longer being used. It is an ongoing loss that no longer benefits from the owners addition to the concurrency.

I have a a few regions on a grid that I donated money for in their early days but no longer go there. They are more then welcome to take my sims down but up to now at least the owner sees a benefit because they are nice regions. I'm sure if they were considered eye sores they would be taken down and I would not blame the owner in the least, in spite of the monies I put in.

Donating money is not the same as a purchase agreement "You get xyz for $nnn and never have to pay more than that ever.'.

SL is vastly different than open sim spin-ups. If the grid your builds were on had in the neighborhood of 30K full sims, I'm sure the small fraction you would be using would make no difference whatsoever. I'd also venture to guess that it's a dead economy as well.

[Love Zhaoying]

Irony: if we give the people complaining L$, they'll probably go away.

[Rowan Amore]

Since they offered the lifetime accounts last year, I doubt LL is that concerned with the old accounts still holding their 4096 parcels.  Would be interesting to know how many of those are still around on their free land.

[Kathlen Onyx]

As long as the land is generating revenue, in whatever way, then the land should be left untouched.  

Who is anyone to say something is ugly and should be removed?  Even if it is ugly to most people,  mainland is there as a sort of sandbox so people can be creative. 

You also have no idea what that structure represents to the land owner.  Maybe it was the very first thing they built when they came to SL. Maybe their partner or a close friend, who has now died, helped them work on a project or it's in remembrance of them.

If you don't like the looks of mainland there are plenty of other choices you can make such as getting a Linden home, renting from a private owner or purchasing your own sim from LL.  

Not everyone can build or create something beautiful but I guarantee that to them it's important.  

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Roxy Couturier said:

SL is vastly different than open sim spin-ups. If the grid your builds were on had in the neighborhood of 30K full sims, I'm sure the small fraction you would be using would make no difference whatsoever. I'd also venture to guess that it's a dead economy as well.

The SL grid back in 2003 when Lifetime memberships were offered, is a small Opensim spin up, not vastly different. Less then a hundred sims maybe? I can't find exact numbers but it didn't sound very large considering growth was slow in land and residents from the 16 regions it started with in November 2002. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/History_of_Second_Life

That was just tiny. 

Quote

Donating money is not the same as a purchase agreement "You get xyz for $nnn and never have to pay more than that ever.'

I have to wonder how many who did opt in for the "lifetime" membership had any inkling that it was anything more then a donation to what seemed like a crazy dream at the time. 

As far as Opensim spin ups is concerned, you can look at this one which since it first came online in 2020, has grown to  29000 standard (256x256) sized regions. Since it is one of the commercial grids, it probably has a not so dead economy.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

As far as Opensim spin ups is concerned, you can look at this one which since it first came online in 2020, has grown to  29000 standard (256x256) sized regions. Since it is one of the commercial grids, it probably has a not so dead economy.

 

That is the only Opensim grid that has that much because the owner created most of those regions.  Not saying that his grid isn't a great place but I knew before I even clicked on it which one you were referring to.  All the other grids are DOA with a few hundred daily logins, if that.

[InnerCity Elf]

I generally like the idea, but the arguments about people who can't be im SL for a long while or anymore not to their own choosing convince me otherwise.

I'd love it if my place had "realistic" signs of decay, when I "neglect" it for a while, like fading paint, bit of crumbling walls, grass higher and random plants popping up, a cobweb here and there... 🥰 kind of like a kittycat system for the land's objects, where you can choose decay or not, and if, can then decide to keep the decay level or "tend to it".

[Rick Nightingale]

28 minutes ago, InnerCity Elf said:

I'd love it if my place had "realistic" signs of decay, when I "neglect" it for a while, like fading paint, bit of crumbling walls, grass higher and random plants popping up, a cobweb here and there

Oh no... I come here to get away from that in RL. I'm sick of painting and rebuilding leaky walls! (Today's job is to fix a frame and rehang a door before cooking dinner.)

Edited June 13 by Rick Nightingale

[Roxy Couturier]

9 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Irony: if we give the people complaining L$, they'll probably go away.

What? You mean the same ones that'd be screaming bloody murder if LL started changing grandfathered terms (that benefit them)?

Bloody generous of them in giving up benefits other people paid for.  You know, the same benefits they could have gotten too if they'd paid for them when they were offered.

[Roxy Couturier]

7 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The SL grid back in 2003 when Lifetime memberships were offered, is a small Opensim spin up, not vastly different.

As far as Opensim spin ups is concerned, you can look at this one which since it first came online in 2020, has grown to  29000 standard (256x256) sized regions. Since it is one of the commercial grids, it probably has a not so dead economy.

 

How many other open sim spin-ups were there in 2003? I'm sure the competition was fierce back then!

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Since they offered the lifetime accounts last year, I doubt LL is that concerned with the old accounts still holding their 4096 parcels.  Would be interesting to know how many of those are still around on their free land.

It's a shame that the offering of lifetime accounts last year was almost 100% to get attention / as a promotion, or they would have offered more!

To me, that offering last year was so small, it wasn't serious - it was more to get people's attention (for example, to give people "hope" that it could be offered to more people).

 

[Phil Deakins]

6 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

How many other open sim spin-ups were there in 2003? I'm sure the competition was fierce back then!

None. And there was no competition.

OpenSim is reverse engineered SL. I don't know quite when it appeared, but it certainly wasn't at the time SL appeared. It couldn't have been. It was probably around 2010 when I tried it.

Edited June 13 by Phil Deakins

[Roxy Couturier]

7 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

None. And there was no competition.

OpenSim is reverse engineered SL. I don't know quite when it appeared, but it certainly wasn't at the time SL appeared. It couldn't have been. It was probably around 2010 when I tried it.

Thanks Phil, but i forgot to put in the 'sarcasm' modifier. I know there wasn't another 'open sim' and that the current open sim tech is reverse engineered SL. That was the point of my post.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

OpenSim is reverse engineered SL.

I don't think that is accurate, as my understanding is it is "open sourced" (supported by LL, encouraged, etc.). LL "released" server code for use back then.

Perhaps as features were added later that were not "given" by LL, some of those features required reverse-engineering.

"Reversed-engineering" and "open source" are two completely different things.

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

10 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Irony: if we give the people complaining L$, they'll probably go away.

What? You mean the same ones that'd be screaming bloody murder if LL started changing grandfathered terms (that benefit them)?

I didn't mean "them" necessarily, but in general, people who complain for the sake of complaining are happy when they get money (even fake money like L$).

But yeah, they will still complain regardless.

 

 

[Arielle Popstar]

18 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

None. And there was no competition.

OpenSim is reverse engineered SL. I don't know quite when it appeared, but it certainly wasn't at the time SL appeared. It couldn't have been. It was probably around 2010 when I tried it.

Opensim was developed and appeared in 2007 by some developers who initially worked on Secondlife. When they were let got from the Lab they used the opensourced viewer code to create the server code for Opensim. 

[Roxy Couturier]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't think that is accurate, as my understanding is it is "open sourced" (supported by LL, encouraged, etc.). LL "released" server code for use back then.

Perhaps as features were added later that were not "given" by LL, some of those features required reverse-engineering.

"Reversed-engineering" and "open source" are two completely different things.

So, you're saying open sim wouldn't exist without SL? That same SL that benefited from beta-tester lifetime memberships?

Let's be clear, we're talking at most 1593 beta testers that had the opportunity to purchase a lifetime account. I'm pretty sure not all of them took LL up on that offer. Sure it was an offer and a nice gesture from LL but those that did get it paid for it.

This is not an undue burden on the grid. The talking point that it somehow is a burden is just a lot of drooling nonsense

[Arielle Popstar]

29 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

This is not an undue burden on the grid. The talking point that it somehow is a burden is just a lot of drooling nonsense

The point of the thread is whether the builds they made back then and abandoned, should continue being an eyesore on the Mainland into perpetuity or they should be allowed to decay to a point where they become a rubble of prim rocks and grow over.

Edited June 13 by Arielle Popstar
grammer

[Rowan Amore]

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't think that is accurate, as my understanding is it is "open sourced" (supported by LL, encouraged, etc.). LL "released" server code for use back then.

Perhaps as features were added later that were not "given" by LL, some of those features required reverse-engineering.

"Reversed-engineering" and "open source" are two completely different things.

LL never released the server code. Only the viewer code. In fact, one of the 2 creators of SL (I've forgotten his name) parted company with LL because Philip changed his mind about releasing the server code, but the other guy didn't. It was originally intended to make it all open-source but Philip changed his mind, perhaps because it turned out to be a viable money-earner.

ETA: The co-creator who parted company with LL was Andrew Linden (thanks to @BilliJo Aldrin who posted a link to the history of SL).

Edited June 13 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

58 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

So, you're saying open sim wouldn't exist without SL?

LL hoped that SL would be the first of a world of such grids, and they did experiments with IBM with that in mind, so they were ok with the development of OpenSim. I don't think they were hands-on helpful but they were fine with it.

OpenSim was getting done with or without LL's approval. The only reason it wouldn't exist without SL would be because there would have been nothing to reverse engineer. OpenSim was created to reproduce SL. It wasn't something that was the independent product of someone else's imagination.

Edited June 13 by Phil Deakins

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 hours ago, InnerCity Elf said:

I generally like the idea, but the arguments about people who can't be im SL for a long while or anymore not to their own choosing convince me otherwise.

I'd love it if my place had "realistic" signs of decay, when I "neglect" it for a while, like fading paint, bit of crumbling walls, grass higher and random plants popping up, a cobweb here and there... 🥰 kind of like a kittycat system for the land's objects, where you can choose decay or not, and if, can then decide to keep the decay level or "tend to it".

my place “shows” a change over time: windows and receiving doors bricked over,  a giant wall mural painted over in grey paint, the whole top floor empty and unused.