Love Zhaoying Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 The good news: Mobile has decent 3D graphics, basic navigation, you can "touch" and "sit", and you can teleport places. You can chat, and listen to a stream. The bad news: Last I saw, Mobile didn't have any way to access inventory, switch avatars (I could have missed that update), teleport to a "place you search for", choose individual items to wear / remove, run scripts, see script dialogs, etc. So it does a lot, and is missing a lot. TBD, y'know? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 (edited) Mobile could also encompass VR or other like headsets as an interface, though I'm not a VR fan. Then the form factor of a screen is less of a problem. Edited May 24 by Codex Alpha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: I would not automatically assume that the current Linden mobile viewer targets anything Lumiya users are interested in doing with a mobile client. Nor Speedlight users. Nor regular desktop viewer users, for that matter. They want a new market. If any of the rest of us can get any utility out of it, that's just gravy. Lumiya users were motivated enough to actually spend money purchasing it, unlike those who get access to the SL one as a bonus of their premium plan. The way I'm hearing it from the few that do test/use the LL version is that it is a rare occasion when they can be bothered. Not sounding like it is a hot bed of testing activity. What "new market" do you think exists that Lumiya users didn't have the same reasonings for? In the group we heard of a few different scenario's for why some did use it and it covered all the bases I can think of. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 8 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said: Except everything will be attached to the right hand and the first new item will knock everything else off. 💀 I saw this mentioned earlier, perhaps by you. Is there a reason Add wouldnt work on mobile? Is it a lot more complicated computationally than Wear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Couturier Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 minute ago, CaerolleClaudel said: I saw this mentioned earlier, perhaps by you. Is there a reason Add wouldnt work on mobile? Is it a lot more complicated computationally than Wear? Well, assuming that inventory works the same in the mobile app, you can double click the item to 'wear' it. 'add' is a right clickto menu then add. And you have to know that the workaround exists in order to use it. It would be great if 'add' were the default and not 'wear'. Given the track record of LL's 'New User Experiences', how do you think that will pan out for those new users? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 8 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I'll venture to say it would be impossible to engage in SL in any way by starting out on the mobile app. Forget gambling, just joining SL to experience SL, there is just no way the mobile app can succeed at that. So, once again, we are left asking why? A couple of thoughts have come to me as you guys discuss starting fresh in SL using the mobile app. Probably like most of my thought, useless, but anyhow... We are doing a LOT of speculating here about potential issues with the mobile app and how well it can work with SL. However, it seems like the only people who can really address the actual experience, at least as it stands now, are the Premium+ people who have beta'd the app. IIRC some of them were talking about the performance back earlier in the thread, but I don't think they gave any details of how actually trying to do things like changing outfits and stuff worked. Maybe what would be nice is if someone with the app could test some of this stuff and report back here. A big problem you guys brought up that I had not considered is starting SL in the app, rather than on a computer and then using the app after that. It would be great if someone with the app would try to set up a new account to see what that experience is like, at least at this point. Perhaps the app is not to that point in development, they are focusing on making it work ok with an existing account and an avi built on the computer, I dunno. The last thing is, and I know people are going to hate this because I hate it too, lol. I have not set up a new account for few years, but IIRC you pick one of the LL avatars, and can maybe change hair and clothes and stuff sort of like in IMVU? People could just keep using those avis, esp if 1) they are not interested in how they look, they just want body to do whatever with, or better yet, perhaps 2) LL made the default avis something people would actually want to use? I dunno. I am guessing most of what I said was already obvious to everyone else, but just in case lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 9 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said: Well, assuming that inventory works the same in the mobile app, you can double click the item to 'wear' it. 'add' is a right clickto menu then add. And you have to know that the workaround exists in order to use it. It would be great if 'add' were the default and not 'wear'. Given the track record of LL's 'New User Experiences', how do you think that will pan out for those new users? I have not made a new account in a few years, so I have no idea what onboarding is like now, nor can I remember details of how it was for me last time. Also, I had the benefit of years of experience and understood things like Wear vs Add. But yeah, given my 17 years in SL, I can't see LL actually explaining the process well. Even if they did, once people saw how complicated it is to even put together an avatar they might feel SL is not worth the effort, I dunno. I have no experience with mobile games but I am going to guess they smooth the path to actually using the game as much as possible. Making Add the default would be great. Some things have to be Worn, of course, but maybe using Add still does Wear for those? Of course, SL being SL, some of those don' obviously do anything anymore a lot of the time, such as (IME) Browshape and something else I can't remember. Shapes definitely have to be Worn though, and Eyes have to be there and worn, and some Skin or another, and wow, I cannot imagine starting in SL now lol. When I started everything was (IMO) way simpler, and then I learned new stuff as it came along, instead of having to understand all the archaic stuff that still has to be taken into account when making an avi now in addition to the newer stuff. I dunno. As I said in another post, perhaps LL will make the default avis better and keep the simpler clothing selection process or do something like IMVU, I dunno. I feel that in addition to dealing with the whole mess of Moderate and Adult and gambling and child avis and all that political stuff, they are going to have a lot of technical challenges to make the game something new people will even want to engage with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Blakewell Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 As long as users buy $L directly in the web browser, they will not be subjected to the Apple add-on fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Blakewell Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Just to clarify regarding alphas/betas and the App Store, there is an app called TestFlight. The alpha/beta apps are a private App Store listing. In general, alpha/beta testers for an app receive an invite after you download TestFlight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 (edited) I'm not reading all this ... But you know what's clear in what I have read. None of you have seen or used the mobile viewer as it stands. I consider this to be the highlight of the experience using it actually mobile on an iPad the other day. This is the most I was able to see rezzed at any one time and it took me 30 minutes to get here. The rest if the time no textures loaded at all. The avatar movement is shockingly disconnected from the ground, that you can't see. Constant warnings about far away content being removed because of memory issues. Chat and group messages are hidden away behind a red dot on the cheeseburger menu (top left). No other avatars rezzed. I couldn't go home so got dumped on some random mainland parcel that happened to be owned by a land barron. Stood there confused and before I could figure out where exactly I was in SL, I got yanked to an info hub thing (couldn't tell, no textures rezzed) with some bots. Any discussions about hordes of new users are wildly premature. The only thing this is getting is 1 star reviews. Edited May 24 by Coffee Pancake 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Speedlight is pretty cool, you can render your avatar and outfits, you just have to do so manually. I only use it on my desktop when I want to tinker around with, and haven't invested that much time in it. I do recall there was a concern a while ago about message encryption as your messages would be passed through speedlight's server, and I think that was addressed if you bought the app. My shape is off a bit, the textures are not quite there, but it has come a long way from when I first tried it. If I had a social second life, I could see myself buying it, and chatting up people in world, or perhaps going to a club while remote, first I would have to get a more powerful phone as the one I have currently is a budget phone that is starting to show its age. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 minute ago, Istelathis said: I do recall there was a concern a while ago about message encryption as your messages would be passed through speedlight's server, Right now the stock desktop client sends all messages in plain text. Everyone between you and SL and back again can read every word. There is a feedback to resolve this marked as 'Tracked'. https://feedback.secondlife.com/feature-requests/p/encrypt-server-communications 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 2 hours ago, Codex Alpha said: Mobile could also encompass VR or other like headsets as an interface, though I'm not a VR fan. Then the form factor of a screen is less of a problem. Hahahahahahahaha. VR has even more problems with SL than mobile does. And if mobiles are having trouble rendering ONE screen of SL, you actually think they can manage to render TWO screens at the same time, in 90fps, to reduce movement induced projectile vomiting? Stop digging, as we have to shout for you to hear us at the bottom of that hole you're standing in. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 48 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: I'm not reading all this ... But you know what's clear in what I have read. None of you have seen or used the mobile viewer as it stands. I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: I have. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 I've watched some SL mobile videos on YouTube. Juicybomb had one about three months old, which was mainly just a sitting/trying to stand demo. Saw some others from SL Official where it showed off the walking around, sitting, dancing in clubs, etc. Those were more recent. It looked pretty clunky overall. Pretty slow to rez things, which will probably surprise anyone new to SL. Kinda laggy when walking. Can't comment much on the UI as I barely saw much but whatever that bottom left control thing is (movement, I guess?). I can't see someone who's used to mobile gaming being all that patient with this, but we'll see how that goes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 9 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Hahahahahahahaha. VR has even more problems with SL than mobile does. And if mobiles are having trouble rendering ONE screen of SL, you actually think they can manage to render TWO screens at the same time, in 90fps, to reduce movement induced projectile vomiting? Stop digging, as we have to shout for you to hear us at the bottom of that hole you're standing in. There is a VR viewer kicking about, i have had it working streamed from my PC (with a 4080 super) to my Quest3. It's the most vomit inducing VR experience I have had to date. No part of the SL experience or viewer has been built with VR in mind. There is no chance we are ever going to catch up to VRChat (which is excellent and can run directly on the Quest without needing a PC to render). Even if we could .. even with forced mouselook .. SL is bad in VR. It looks bad, it feels bad, it runs bad. This is not news. Linden's own failed SL VR attempts were part of the justification for the great Sansar adventure, where LL hoped to combine fancy future tech with the mush sought after 'better people' demographic. Which we know from VRChat is a complete nonsense. I wonder what people do with VR hats .. I wonder why some reporters felt the need to warn Apple VR users that Apple was watching what they did with their hands. ALL THE TIME. 3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: It looked pretty clunky overall. Pretty slow to rez things, which will probably surprise anyone new to SL. Kinda laggy when walking. It's "passable" on a lan connection. On a mobile connection .. 3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: I can't see someone who's used to mobile gaming being all that patient with this, but we'll see how that goes. Mobile gaming presents as solid an experience as desktop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3eU_QdKQU0 Anything less than perfection is unacceptable. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: Mobile gaming presents as solid an experience as desktop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3eU_QdKQU0 Anything less than perfection is unacceptable. Yeah, I've seen mobile vs. PC side-by-side comparisons of games like Fortnite, Genshin Impact, Call of Duty: Warzone, Wreckfest, EA's FC 24, etc. They all look really damn good on a phone/tablet. Very fluid, nice graphics (perhaps a bit toned down in the atmospheric effects and foliage), great response times, etc. Competitive Fortnite might struggle a bit, just given how endgame build battles go and how insanely fast they get. Speed building did appear a bit slower on mobile, but then, I don't know offhand of anyone nutty enough to compete like that (though I think it's happened - I just haven't personally seen it in any of the tournaments I've watched). The SL app has some catching up to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 34 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: Can't comment much on the UI as I barely saw much but whatever that bottom left control thing is (movement, I guess?). It's a counterintuitive joystick. The further from it your finger is, the faster you go. Tap it to switch between walking and flying. It's wonky. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: It's a counterintuitive joystick. The further from it your finger is, the faster you go. Tap it to switch between walking and flying. It's wonky. Oh wow. I saw it took Juicybomb quite a bit to figure out how to stand once sitting. Is that actually explained anywhere? Like a control scheme you can pull up in a menu or somethin'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 28 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: I wonder what people do with VR hats .. I regularly check the "today's special offers" games under x amount on Steam, at the low end you see a LOT of VR titles. The vasst majoriity of them are "control a floaty hand to fondle kupra baeed anme girls and shove *cough* objects *cough* in them". Yeah... VR... It's not all "Beat Sabre". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 18 hours ago, Extrude Ragu said: I think LL should at minimum do an unrestricted android version - There's no reason to kill all of the investment just because of Tim Cook/Apple. Android users don't need to be punished for Apple's requirements. Just stick an APK up for download somewhere. I spent years with Android and now several years with iOS, and I could see Android users accepting complexity much better than iOS users, esp if it gives them more options and flexibility than the Apple way. Also, side-loading is a thing in Android, for better or for worse. Apple will never willingly allow that; they have pretty much rendered the EU requirements useless and I feel pretty sure the US government will never have such a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 12 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: Well, it may be nobody at all, or just a handful of existing users who get to use their iPads until they just pull the plug on maintaining the mobile viewer altogether because that, I am very sure, is not the target audience. It's not only kids who have more graphics processing power in their mobile devices than on their desktops, or who are more inclined to use mobile than desktop for entertainment including gaming. Even with every minor excluded, that's a huge market. Can SL appeal to that market? Well, not identically to the way it appeals to exclusively desktop users, but yeah, I think it has a chance. There's a niche there, I think, with generally different appeal than anything else out there, e.g., more sophisticated than Roblox. Not a slam-dunk because a mobile-usable subset of the SL experience must be enjoyable, engaging, probably even immersive. If it succeeds, SL will change to emphasize whatever works on mobile mostly because user generated content will adapt to address those users. Are you talking about changing SL overall to fit what can be done in a mobile app, or creating a separate experience for mobile apps? I know I am negative wrt LL, but given what I have seen over the last 17 years, I haven't seen much (any?) evidence LL can manage two experiences at once (Minor's SL or whatever it was called and Sansar at the least, maybe more stuff I don't remember or was gone during). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 11 hours ago, Midnoot said: The entire world is evolving towards mobile apps and gaming . Simply being able to access second life from a phone is exciting to me .Not having to be at home with the pc masterrace gaming monster , or lugging abig laptop around that needs a huge power supply to play secondlife smoothly .... instead, just a few taps away and can be stashed n my pocket when my boss comes around the corner ? Mmm... I am unclear, are you saying you expect a mobile app on a pocket device to play SL smoothly? If so, a very stripped down and limited SL, or the same as on a gaming computer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 10 hours ago, stlshayne said: I see some acting like this is a lost cause since the Beta is premium only... did they indicate that this would stay premium exclusive post-beta? Bc if not, I don't see the issue. Premium users usually are more experienced with SL so will be able to pick up on what does and doesn't work, what's needed, etc, so it can get out of Beta faster. Also keeps the beta from being flooded by absolutely everyone while they iron the kinks out. I just wonder how many of the kinks they will find if it is limited to Premium+ members. I guess I don't know the design of their beta study, sounds like a poor approach to assessing usability, esp of something intended for people with no experience in SL and who are used to doing things in mobile apps, which IMO mostly (almost completely?) extremely limited wrt the desktop versions. I am guessing for a lot of mobile games no desktop/console version even exists, so the complexity of the more powerful versions of the games do not have to be squeezed down onto something mobile can do. Unless they are going to be like Apple with a couple of its media apps which really only run on iPad with desktop processors with lots of memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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