Community Roundtable May 20, 2024

[Istelathis]

My favorite part is an hour and sixteen minutes in

Time stamped for all of you,  the topic of creator tools.  It doesn't really get too involved with what is coming, but it is emphasized really strongly.  Perhaps we will get new toys in the viewer to build with, could it be different types of prims?  Could it be... voxels?  Please let it be voxels.

 

[Starberry Passion]

• Most of this talk is about Mobile and how Apple and Paypal are the companies that influenced the changes of ToS. So everything is about the Second Life Mobile App.

Because of Apples and Paypals restrictions and rules, it affects second life. They had to remove Adult content from the app itself, since it is against Apple and Paypal's ToS.

You should expect more changes, if Apple or Paypal want those changes to be made.

• Someone, also, asked the question about BBG, BDSM kinks and Mommy and Daddy Doms, linden Governance stated that they don't care about that as long as it is between two adult avatars, however, they will act with ill intent if it is sexualized a.p. So that means that if you are a BBG, you can rest easily but just don't cross the line and make it into sexualized A.P. of an adult avatar and a child avatar.

• Concerns about Anime avatars have, also, been answered: They do not look at anime avatars as child by face, alone, unless your entire presentation is child like and you are stating you are child and if comes across that you are a child. Grumpy stated that Anime avatars do, in fact, look youthful and child like but the face would not indicate child, alone.

They are saying "You have to do your best to present as an adult, no matter how cute you look, with your words, your profile, what you wear, your height, etc. Yet, Height, body type, face isn't an indication alone. So your whole package will be looked at.

Edited May 21 by Starberry Passion

[Coffee Pancake]

10 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

Time stamped for all of you,  the topic of creator tools.  It doesn't really get too involved with what is coming, but it is emphasized really strongly.  Perhaps we will get new toys in the viewer to build with, could it be different types of prims?  Could it be... voxels?  Please let it be voxels.

We're getting GLTF scene uploading with custom rigging. That is the ability to upload an entire scene with textures, rigging and motion. All from a single source, all ready to go. It's pretty close.

We're not getting a substitute for blender or maya in the viewer, nor would that be practical or in the end, any simpler than needing to learn blender. We're also not getting special in viewer only tools. The move has been towards industry standard work flows so transferable skills can be used to create content for SL, not in SL.

Just think about it for a moment. You want to make mesh in SL, you're going to need a set of tools to do that, those tools would end up looking a lot like blender in the end, and instead of learning the right tool, your skills are now locked into SL which by it's very nature will be weird, non standard, and non transferable.

This is in everyone's interests. It makes it easier for those with skills to bring content here, and for everyone else, learning these skills (whilst daunting) provides something that has use and application well beyond Second Life itself.

I get it. Blender has a reputation and it's not built to be painless out of the box. It's built to be powerful and fast once grasped, it can do amazing things and everyone's journey starts with a donut.

[cocoanuts]

35 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

• Most of this talk is about Mobile and how Apple and Paypal are the companies that influenced the changes of ToS. So everything is about the Second Life Mobile App.

由于 Apple 和 Paypals 的限制和规则，它影响了第二人生。他们不得不从应用程序本身中删除成人内容，因为它违反了苹果和PayPal的服务条款。

如果Apple或PayPal希望进行这些更改，您应该期待更多更改。

• 还有人问了关于 BBG、BDSM 扭结和妈妈和爸爸 Doms 的问题，linden Governance 表示，只要是在两个成人化身之间，他们就不在乎，但是，如果它被性化了，他们就会恶意行事。所以这意味着，如果你是一个BBG，你可以轻松休息，但不要越界，让它成为成人头像和儿童头像的性化AP。

• 对动漫头像的担忧也得到了回答：他们不会单独将动漫头像视为孩子，除非你的整个演示文稿都像孩子一样，并且你说你是孩子，如果遇到你是一个孩子。脾气暴躁的说，事实上，动漫头像确实看起来很年轻，像孩子一样，但脸上不会单独表示孩子。

他们说：“你必须尽最大努力表现为一个成年人，无论你看起来多么可爱，用你的言语、你的个人资料、你的穿着、你的身高等。然而，身高、体型、脸部并不是唯一的指标。因此，您的整个包裹将被查看。

Thanks for the very good summary.

Edited May 21 by cocoanuts

[Coffee Pancake]

36 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Because of Apples and Paypals restrictions and rules, it affects second life. They had to remove Adult content from the app itself, since it is against Apple and Paypal's ToS.

What they don't mention and must understand, is that all the adult content isn't on A land.

It's on M land.

In everyone's Linden home, mainland home, or skybox, or car or boat or outdoor chair set, or kitchen, or worn on their avatars as a hud. Adult content is everywhere and in everything.

This is why a question about zindra was picked. There will need to be Zindra development as some of us might have to move.

[Starberry Passion]

7 minutes ago, cocoanuts said:

Thanks for the very good summary.

You are welcome. Oberwolf seems to be more level headed and stated he looks at Second Life as it is real life, without political opinions. He, also, stated that he doesn't want people to abuse the report system with false accusations and or spite reporting. I like that way of thinking, since a lot of us apply real life elements to this fantasy world.

That means that everyone telling you "This is second life, real life don't apply" don't know what they are talking about. It might be a fantasy world but it is looked at as if it is real life, which includes how one looks. 

[Starberry Passion]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

What they don't mention and must understand, is that all the adult content isn't on A land.

It's on M land.

In everyone's Linden home, mainland home, or skybox, or car or boat or outdoor chair set, or kitchen, or worn on their avatars as a hud. Adult content is everywhere and in everything.

This is why a question about zindra was picked. There will need to be Zindra development as some of us might have to move.

They did talk about that. They said that they want all adult activities on adult land and not on G or M land.

In M sims, they don't want it public, they want it invisible, so if you have a home you have to turn on invisibility, if you're just going to walk around your sim naked and be adult.

They said they will push to make sure adult activities do not show up on the Mobile app and asked people to not mess this up for everyone else, in the process.

[Kathlen Onyx]

9 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

They did talk about that. They said that they want all adult activities on adult land and not on G or M land.

In M sims, they don't want it public, they want it invisible, so if you have a home you have to turn on invisibility, if you're just going to walk around your sim naked and be adult.

They said they will push to make sure adult activities do not show up on the Mobile app and asked people to not mess this up for everyone else, in the process.

So exactly what it is now.

I think the bolded part is an odd thing to say. People that want to mess it up don't care. LOL. So if this fails I guess it's OUR fault or the new resident's they are trying to recruit.

[Starberry Passion]

3 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

So exactly what it is now.

I think the bolded part is an odd thing to say. People that want to mess it up don't care. LOL. So if this fails I guess it's OUR fault or the new resident's they are trying to recruit.

I think this was more of a warning. They are warning people "If you do this, we will get you so behave."

To me, this was saying "Try us if you want to... but it's not going to be pretty for you."

[Coffee Pancake]

11 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

They did talk about that. They said that they want all adult activities on adult land and not on G or M land.

In M sims, they don't want it public, they want it invisible, so if you have a home you have to turn on invisibility, if you're just going to walk around your sim naked and be adult.

They said they will push to make sure adult activities do not show up on the Mobile app and asked people to not mess this up for everyone else, in the process.

There is nothing they can do about users of the mobile app, going to their M rated homes and playing with the adult stuff they already own, maybe recording it, and putting it on tiktok.

This is SL. Remember.

No one will know LL implored us not to "mess it up". That's not a strategy.

 

[Starberry Passion]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

There is nothing they can do about users of the mobile app, going to their M rated homes and playing with the adult stuff they already own, maybe recording it, and putting it on tiktok.

This is SL. Remember.

No one will know LL implored us not to "mess it up". That's not a strategy.

 

It looks like an implore but it was more of a warning. You don't say something like that out of the blue to your community without it being a warning to you. I don't think he's trying to keep people from doing that.

He's trying to keep it from being public in second life itself.

He's saying "Keep it on A rated sims" They don't care about tiktok, twitter, facebook or anything like that.

They just want you to put adult where adult need to be, and if you're banging, keep it out of public inside of second life.

This is what I got from what he said.

[Coffee Pancake]

8 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

People that want to mess it up don't care. LOL. So if this fails I guess it's OUR fault or the new resident's they are trying to recruit.

We wont "mess it up".

But let's be under no illusion, there will be people out to "mess it up" on day one.

Normally when someone or some company wrongs someone, it's forgivable, repairable, or it fades with time.

Linden don't get forgiven. They aren't delivering a bad cheese burger, or messing up a car rental. They are breaking someone's dream.

 

 

[Starberry Passion]

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We wont "mess it up".

But let's be under no illusion, there will be people out to "mess it up" on day one.

Normally when someone or some company wrongs someone, it's forgivable, repairable, or it fades with time.

Linden don't get forgiven. They aren't delivering a bad cheese burger, or messing up a car rental. They are breaking someone's dream.

 

 

But it's not Linden, it's Apple and Paypal. They want Linden to comply with their rules and Linden did their best to find a line. If linden doesn't comply with Paypal's rules, alone... that cuts off several people from purchasing linden alone.

Edited May 21 by Starberry Passion

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

But it's not Linden, it's Apple and Paypal. They want Linden to comply with their rules and Linden did their best to find a line. If linden doesn't comply with Paypal's rules, alone... that cuts off several people from purchasing linden alone.

We have been doing fine for 20 years .. with Paypal for most of that.

[Starberry Passion]

3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We have been doing fine for 20 years .. with Paypal for most of that.

But paypal has been changing their stuff.

For example, because Pixiv has sexualize material, they made Pixiv stop around last month, selling sexualized Material or they would pull their services.

Same with Patreon, they are cracking down on p*rn more and more.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

39 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

do not show up on the Mobile app and asked people to not mess this up for everyone else

29 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

So if this fails I guess it's OUR fault

 

I *did* mention this earlier. He knows Mobile will fail, and has decided to blame us rather than his own staff for a waste of time, effort, and money.

 

4 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I REALLY loved the not-so-subtle way our Glorious Leader tried to suggest that when the MobileLife Fail-Viewer fails to bring in a vast untapped new market, it will be OUR fault for not "being smart" and using it and leaving glowing reviews on the app stores.

 

It's almost as if he KNOWS it's a lost cause, and is looking for people to blame, that he doesn't pay wages to.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

But it's not Linden, it's Apple and Paypal. They want Linden to comply with their rules and Linden did their best to find a line.

It's not paypal, they happily pay money to all kinds of smutty systems.

 

It's Awful Mac. If LL wasn't wasting time , effort and money on Mobile, they wouldn't have to deal with Awful Mac, and there'd be no massive puritan kick.

Let's be clear here.. Anyone STUPID enough to put a non-mobile-friendly system like SL, in the Awful Mac app store, will face TWO massive project killing problems.

1. No smut.

2. Awful Mac expect a 30% cut of every $ that you get from your users via the app.

 

That second one kills the Lindex access for the mobile app dead in the water.

LL could take your $100 Linden buy, and only give you $70 worth, watch the SL economy collapse and SL die.

LL could take your $100 Linden buy, give you $100 worth, and take the $30 hit them selves, stop making a profit, and watch SL die.

LL could take your $100 Linden buy, give you $100 worth, and pass the $30 hit onto the land barons and store owners trying to sell their Lindens for $, and watch the SL economy collapse, and SL die.

 

[Starberry Passion]

28 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

I *did* mention this earlier. He knows Mobile will fail, and has decided to blame us rather than his own staff for a waste of time, effort, and money.

 

 

It's not paypal, they happily pay money to all kinds of smutty systems.

 

It's Awful Mac. If LL wasn't wasting time , effort and money on Mobile, they wouldn't have to deal with Awful Mac, and there'd be no massive puritan kick.

Let's be clear here.. Anyone STUPID enough to put a non-mobile-friendly system like SL, in the Awful Mac app store, will face TWO massive project killing problems.

1. No smut.

2. Awful Mac expect a 30% cut of every $ that you get from your users via the app.

 

That second one kills the Lindex access for the mobile app dead in the water.

LL could take your $100 Linden buy, and only give you $70 worth, watch the SL economy collapse and SL die.

LL could take your $100 Linden buy, give you $100 worth, and take the $30 hit them selves, stop making a profit, and watch SL die.

LL could take your $100 Linden buy, give you $100 worth, and pass the $30 hit onto the land barons and store owners trying to sell their Lindens for $, and watch the SL economy collapse, and SL die.

 

[Evangeline Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Istelathis said:

My favorite part is an hour and sixteen minutes in

Time stamped for all of you,  the topic of creator tools.  It doesn't really get too involved with what is coming, but it is emphasized really strongly.  Perhaps we will get new toys in the viewer to build with, could it be different types of prims?  Could it be... voxels?  Please let it be voxels.

 

Thanks,  I missed part of this bit in the  live.

I'd love to be excited about this - like many others I would like to see improved content creation from within SL, and agree with others who have said over time that the introduction of mesh has reduced the old enthusiasm of creativity and to build within SL that there was in the early days.

He said regarding creator tools like 'PBR, first in a long line of them...'  and then that the hope was that the new tools would provide better experiences for creators to provide better experiences for residents.  But PBR doesn't create objects.  That together with what has been said in the past few years i.e. that they are not going to implement any kind of new building tool within SL that can create mesh or similar, makes me not very hopeful that we'll have anything other than prims still to work with. But maybe there'll be new or improved prims?

LL may have changed their mind of course since they last said that, but they were  pretty adamant in the past in other recorded Q&As that creators having mesh they could build outside /sl and then import was the best solution, and that wasn't going to change).

So my guess is that the new 'tools' will be ones that improve content in some way, but won't be tools like having mesh building within SL. I hope I'm proved wrong! I'd love to see improved building tools that any resident can learn to use that are better than prims. 

Maybe there'll be a way to link directly to an external 3D modeller for easier import

 

 

[Evangeline Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Starberry Passion said:

I think this was more of a warning. They are warning people "If you do this, we will get you so behave."

To me, this was saying "Try us if you want to... but it's not going to be pretty for you."

My understanding of what he said in the live (if you listen to the whole thing because he said a number of times),  was if you want to deliberately try and break SL, break the rules,  be a jerk, then you are actively harming the future of SL, so there'll be no SL down the line. Simple.

Edited May 21 by Evangeline Arcadia

[Starberry Passion]

2 minutes ago, Evangeline Arcadia said:

Thanks,  I missed part of this bit in the  live.

I'd love to be excited about this - like many others I would like to see improved content creation from within SL, and agree with others who have said over time that the introduction of mesh has reduced the old enthusiasm of creativity and to build within SL that there was in the early days.

He said regarding creator tools like 'PBR, first in a long line of them...'  and then that the hope was that the new tools would provide better experiences for creators to provide better experiences for residents.  But PBR doesn't create objects.  That together with what has been said in the past few years i.e. that they are not going to implement any kind of new building tool within SL that can create mesh or similar, makes me not very hopeful that we'll have anything other than prims still to work with. But maybe there'll be new or improved prims?

LL may have changed their mind of course since they last said that, but they were  pretty adamant in the past in other recorded Q&As that creators having mesh they could build outside /sl and then import was the best solution, and that wasn't going to change).

So my guess is that the new 'tools' will be ones that improve content in some way, but won't be tools like having mesh building within SL. I hope I'm proved wrong! I'd love to see improved building tools that any resident can learn to use that are better than prims. 

Maybe there'll be a way to link directly to an external 3D modeller for easier import

 

 

I'd love to be able to make mesh inside of second life, that would be good... Imagine Blender-esque and a clothing maker software integrated into second life, you'd still have to get a dev kit and you're working on your outfit inworld.... 

That wouldn't be a thing they could do but would be really cool and it had ease of use to it

[Starberry Passion]

1 minute ago, Evangeline Arcadia said:

My understanding of what he said in the live, if you listen to the whole thing,  was if you want to deliberately try and break SL, break the rules and just be a jerk, then you are actively harming the future of SL, so there'll be no SL down the line. Simple.

But he also said he is putting Second Life first and that everything he does is for the betterment, this alone states he won't go down without a fight, so I still took it as "Don't f up."

[Zalificent Corvinus]

36 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Learn to read. Technically SL doesn't violate any of those clauses.

You're not downloading videos, it's not a "sex hookup site", and the minors thing has always been a bannable offence here.

 

Edited May 21 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Coffee Pancake]

31 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

SL have been a pay pal customer for a very long time and put considerable money though their services, SL has the economy equivalent to the GDP of a small country.

Linden don't read the terms of their relationship up on the website like you or I.

[Starberry Passion]

7 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

SL have been a pay pal customer for a very long time and put considerable money though their services, SL has the economy equivalent to the GDP of a small country.

Linden don't read the terms of their relationship up on the website like you or I.

But paypal has been enforcing it, lately.

They can be partners all they want but this year is the year where they've become savage.

[Qie Niangao]

9 hours ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

Link to full text please

As @Kimmi Zehetbauer observed in another thread, somehow the YouTube video sprouted a timecode-linked transcript overnight. (The "Show transcript" button is at the bottom of the text intro under the video window; I don't know a way to get just the text without the timecode links, but the transcript is text-searchable with the rest of the page.)