Love Zhaoying Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 So, with the updated TOS FAQ's: Was the over-reaction before the update a "Tempest in a teapot"? "Pissing in the wind"? "Shaking a fist at the sky"? It certainly seems like some of the "big to-do" was "much ado about nothing". 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said: But again, as there seems to be some reading comprehension problems here Maybe nobody knows what "kidcore" is except you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: So, with the updated TOS FAQ's: Was the over-reaction before the update a "Tempest in a teapot"? "Pissing in the wind"? "Shaking a fist at the sky"? It certainly seems like some of the "big to-do" was "much ado about nothing". It's better to fart in the wind than in an elevator. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 You guys know what the 'modesty patch' will lead to, right? Do I really have to spell this out? It's going to lead to unnecessary censorship bars. Here's a page full of SFW examples of unnecessary censorship bars. I bet PBR is going to make it easier to do the pixelated censorship bars, with subsurface scattering, and things like that. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 4 hours ago, Lilbap said: To be honest, I've been pretty angry at you guys for a few days now. I lost a community of friends that hung out on a sim that was functionally Mature but flagged adult due to ignorance of the ToS.. I'm down almost a dozen or so friends already too. Between misunderstanding on the tos, those that perfectly understand the tos, and harassment from trolls. I expect before all this settles down, I'll lose more. An I know how you feel about having ar's going unacted on. My estate is being trolled by some idiot that comes into it, makes videos about it, then posts them to youtube while making disparaging comments about it. He has been ar'ed at least a few dozen times and banned from our estate. He just creates an alt and comes back to continue. Nothing has been done about him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 6 hours ago, brodiac90 said: So no female chest modesty layer on toddlers - that makes sense. I'm glad LL have been listening. that toddler nipples are not to be accentuated doesn't preclude toddlers presenting as female still having to a chest modesty layer those who want to present as female toddlers might want to seek further clarification on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwyn Quandry Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Quote Q: I use an infant or toddler avatar. Am I required to have an upper modesty layer? A: If your avatar does not have female attributes, the suggestion of female attributes, and does not present as female with regards to the chest, then you do not need an upper modesty layer. The way I read this, it effectively means that any pre-pubescent avatar doesn't need a top modesty layer. As long as you don't display breast development and the area is 100% flat, you don't have any female attributes or suggestion of them. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arwyn Quandry Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: So, with the updated TOS FAQ's: Was the over-reaction before the update a "Tempest in a teapot"? "Pissing in the wind"? "Shaking a fist at the sky"? It certainly seems like some of the "big to-do" was "much ado about nothing". No, it just proved that they were listening and the uproar was heard. If no one had said a thing about the impracticalities of their plan, the plan wouldn't have changed. The fact that we spoke up clearly and pointed out the issues caused them to reply. I appreciate LL listening to us on this. As of now, the modesty layers are far more practical and reasonable. The BOM thing alone was a huge step. I'm grateful for the changes and can definitely see a path forward for child avatars to exist safely in SL. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingrid Ingersoll Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: Was the over-reaction before the update a "Tempest in a teapot"? Absolutely. Althought Im sure a huge chunk of ageplayers will still leave over having to wear anything to cover their bits. (yay) Edited June 1 by Ingrid Ingersoll 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: So, with the updated TOS FAQ's: Was the over-reaction before the update a "Tempest in a teapot"? "Pissing in the wind"? "Shaking a fist at the sky"? It certainly seems like some of the "big to-do" was "much ado about nothing". The reaction before the update is what got us this and all other updates. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: The reaction before the update is what got us this and all other updates. Then, whatever it took to get the update is worth it. Too bad about all that worry and upset. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubblesort Triskaidekaphobia Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: Then, whatever it took to get the update is worth it. Too bad about all that worry and upset. Yes! We must respect the process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) Yeah if we hadn't said anything nothing would have changed. For example, it was only the discussion about what would happen to a fully clothed modesty layered child avatar if they were approached by a nude adult in the mega thread that sparked that addition to the FAQ. Similarly, if the whole bras for toddlers wasn't brought up in the forums and at the Governance meeting on May 9th I doubt that would have changed either. Please don't retroactively deminish our worries and concerns now some of them have been addressed since at the time they were perfectly genuine worries. Edited June 1 by brodiac90 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 8 hours ago, Madi Melodious said: I'm down almost a dozen or so friends already too. Between misunderstanding on the tos, those that perfectly understand the tos, and harassment from trolls. I expect before all this settles down, I'll lose more. An I know how you feel about having ar's going unacted on. My estate is being trolled by some idiot that comes into it, makes videos about it, then posts them to youtube while making disparaging comments about it. He has been ar'ed at least a few dozen times and banned from our estate. He just creates an alt and comes back to continue. Nothing has been done about him. Yeah I've not personally checked for obvious reasons but the last time my mom visited the adult group joiner with fully naked breasts in General land, it was still there and it was reported over a week ago. Is advertising a group with ADULT in big letters on the media while showing a woman's fully nude breasts not considered 'inappropriate content for the region setting,' for a General sim then? Edited June 1 by Quartz Mole Moderator redacted reference identifying the region with the contentious group joiner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilbap Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sadvhi said: Wait - what happened? So the sim in question had a motel where people were handling their adult busienss and they said to the owner, "So we're doing the dirty in the motel you should make this an adult sim just in case." The sim owner made it Adult. Even though people were not allowed to wander around naked outside (they give them time out for it). So when the new ToS dropped, despite how the sim is run, and its rules, its Adult and verboten. Edited June 1 by Lilbap one of many spelling errors 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 6 hours ago, Arwyn Quandry said: No, it just proved that they were listening and the uproar was heard. If no one had said a thing about the impracticalities of their plan, the plan wouldn't have changed. The fact that we spoke up clearly and pointed out the issues caused them to reply. I appreciate LL listening to us on this. As of now, the modesty layers are far more practical and reasonable. The BOM thing alone was a huge step. I'm grateful for the changes and can definitely see a path forward for child avatars to exist safely in SL. THIS 100%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!\o/ They'll be taking feedback for awhile.. People shouldn't take harsh harsh measurements with their accounts since LL is still probing the feedback and learning as well, where they need to be much more informative in their communication.. It's heavy handshake and exchange mode right now between them and the community.. It's nice to know that all these threads on the changes haven't been in vain. Edited June 1 by Ceka Cianci 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 15 minutes ago, Lilbap said: So the sim in question had a motel where people were handling their adult busienss and they said to the owner, "So we're doing the dirty in the motel you should make this an adult sim just in case." The sim owner made it Adult. Even though people were not allowed to wander around naked outside (they give them time out for it). So when the new ToS dropped, despite how the sim is run, and its rules, its Adult and verboten. Perhaps it's because it's a Motel? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 6 hours ago, Arwyn Quandry said: The way I read this, it effectively means that any pre-pubescent avatar doesn't need a top modesty layer. As long as you don't display breast development and the area is 100% flat, you don't have any female attributes or suggestion of them. That's interesting. The question specifically references toddlers and infants but as you said is worded in such a way that it could also potentially include older prepubescent children. Perhaps LL should clarify this if that is not their intent? I got the impression @Keira Linden was Only talking about toddlers and infants at the May 9th Governance meeting. The fact the images show the older girl still covered would reinforce this. 14:55] Keira Linden: I hear you all on the modesty layer on infants, and is something I am willing to consider, but I can't promise that any change will be made at this time. Edited June 1 by brodiac90 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilbap Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 42 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: Perhaps it's because it's a Motel? There were 9 sims other than the motel.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lilbap said: There were 9 sims other than the motel.. Did all the sims host places to have sex? It only takes one spot in each sim to make a whole sim adult rated. Edited June 1 by Ceka Cianci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilbap Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 18 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Did all the sims host places to have sex? It only takes one spot in each sim to make a whole sim adult rated. If its "behind closed doors" it falls under Mature, it was residential mostly. If it were the case people having sex inside closed areas linden homes would be Adult too because you know in all those houses someone's gettin' busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Lilbap said: If its "behind closed doors" it falls under Mature, it was residential mostly. If it were the case people having sex inside closed areas linden homes would be Adult too because you know in all those houses someone's gettin' busy. Depends if it's residential or commercial. For example, you could make the argument that a Motel (a business) that is used for adult hook ups is actually an adult business and therefore promoting adult activities which is very much Adult rated. There could be other unique examples across the 9 sims but I don't know them so it's hard to judge. If it's just the land owner being cautious then I kind of get that as annoying as it is. That's a resident issue though, LL set out how the ratings should be used but it's up to land owners how they use them. Could also just be laziness. "I don't want to have to police M and A sims so they're all A....." Edited June 1 by brodiac90 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadvhi Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 45 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: That's interesting. The question specifically references toddlers and infants but as you said is worded in such a way that it could also potentially include older prepubescent children. Because they were responding to the question about infants and toddlers, I assumed they were referring to anyone presenting as 0 to 2 years of age. If they rephrased it like this it might help: A: If your infant or toddler avatar (0-2 years) does not have female attributes, the suggestion of female attributes, and does not present as female with regards to the chest, then you do not need an upper modesty layer. They could also add something along the lines of: "Anyone who is presenting as a female child between the ages of 3 to 17 will require the modesty layer on top as well." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Lilbap said: If its "behind closed doors" it falls under Mature, it was residential mostly. If it were the case people having sex inside closed areas linden homes would be Adult too because you know in all those houses someone's gettin' busy. If it's behind closed doors but still advertises that space to the public, it's not private. If it's a rental place for residents to live then ya that's different.. but if they say we have places for romantic couples and things like this and have places where they can have sex.. it's considered adult because adult is about the advertisement to the public.. So if it's just residential areas, then that's moderate.. Edited June 1 by Ceka Cianci 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmeliaJ08 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Just chiming in to say it is completely weird to require female toddlers to wear bras or other chest covering underwear garments. Even typing it sounds weird. I want to give LL the benefit of the doubt and try and understand their intent... but I just can't, I just don't get it. I understand a ban on nudity for child avatars and understand LL would rather just not have to deal with the whole can of worms but having a variance in rules between genders when we're talking pre-pubescent children is just bizarre. I know "SL isn't the real world" and that we cannot apply real world norms to here but if that is the case just require the same for both. Quote If your avatar does not have female attributes, the suggestion of female attributes, and does not present as female with regards to the chest, then you do not need an upper modesty layer. What are female attributes in the context of an infant/toddler/pre-pubescent child? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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