So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

You misunderstand. There have been several people trying to deny certain looks and body types to be women. I'm not talking about people allowing them in the sim or not, i'm defending them against people who are trying to turn them into children all together when they are women. This isn't about ToS, it is about Women and their body and self expression being able to be women.

No one has said people can't look however they'd like.  I've also said NUMEROUS times, I have no problem with petite women and see them regularly in Adult places.  However, what people ARE saying is that with certain body types one has to be careful as to the overall look when accessing adult places.  Some places will allow a borderline look while others will not.  They aren't tell you that you CAN"T look however you want just that you can't be in their region.  

If adult places are consistently telling a person they can't access adult regions, then it IS a you issue if you want to be able to go.

It's really that simple.  Be you but don't expect everyone to see YOU as you see YOU.

[Starberry Passion]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

No one has said people can't look however they'd like.  I've also said NUMEROUS times, I have no problem with petite women and see them regularly in Adult places.  However, what people ARE saying is that with certain body types one has to be careful as to the overall look when accessing adult places.  Some places will allow a borderline look while others will not.  They aren't tell you that you CAN"T look however you want just that you can't be in their region.  

If adult places are consistently telling a person they can't access adult regions, then it IS a you issue if you want to be able to go.

It's really that simple.  Be you but don't expect everyone to see YOU as you see YOU.

 

1 hour ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

The body is by far the most telling feature if someone is an adult or child. 

 then what is this? what did they say about the body being what is the most telling?

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said:

To be clear, this isn't about 'save the kiddos', there are no kiddos to save.. it's about 'stop the pedos'. Full stop.

The psychology of it is, that the pedo 'practices' the act. Doing this in SL is a very visual way to practice. This virtual practice, leads to finally advancing their fantasy to RL. Virtual pedo-ing is practice to get up the nerve to do the real thing. Anything that stymies that fantasy is actually a good thing.

The psychology is from someone who has likely never tried wearing a child avatar. Anyone who has, has likely experienced pedo approaches regardless. Several months ago on another grid I experimented with an 7-10 year old look. I put on a mid thigh dress with full top, shoes and shrunk my size to a little over 4 feet and tp'ed to a friend's Little People's event.

 

Nothing great and not sexy in imo in any way. Danced a little and chatted with some of the others for a bit then out of the blue I get an IM from an older adult who was a way off, that he would like to stick his thing in my pretty little mouth. Being totally immersed into the avatar, my gorge rose up and I almost threw up in R/L. I didn't respond and TP'ed home. 

Point being that if a child looking like that, wearing the mandated coverings can still excite a pedo to send a message like that, what delusional fantasy is there to think that any of the new policies are going to help? They are focused on the child with nothing that I've seen to address potential pedo's. If anything I'd like to see some posts by children to get an idea of how prevalent it is and whether they are of the opinion whether any of the new rules are going to have any bearing on the prevalence of pedo approaches. I doubt now that even a burka will prevent anything from a child avatar perspective.

 

 

 

[Vanity Fair]

11 hours ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Here, hitting the nail on the head. LL goes the way like so many things in the world nowadays. Blaming and punishing the victims/mass and not the offenders. Child/teen/woman doesn't r*ped it/herself because it/she is dressed provocative, it's the perv that isn't able to keep his hands at home.

I hope Linden Lab doesn’t ban the defender IG option most SL viewers have. It can come in handy sometimes!

For example, yesterday I took a picture of a gothic fireplace I picked up the Sccop ‘n’ Score hunt. Instead of removing my current fireplace to put the gift one in its place to take a picture of it for my blog (which meant I would have to go through the painstaking task of repositioning my original fireplace afterwards), I just temporarily derendered my regular fireplace, placed the gift one, took my picture, and then logged and back in again. Et voilà! My regular fireplace is back as I had originally placed it.

Edited May 5 by Vanity Fair

[Leslie Trihey]

31 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I've been an admin too, and I NEVER had to ban an adult female avatar that looked adult, from anywhere for not being 7 ft tall or having small boobs or a flat ass, NEVER.

I HAVVE had to ban a number of 4 ft tall badly drawn Japanese comic based, half naked half dressed in fetish gear, avatars that were blatant ToS violation Abuse Report Clickbait.

 

Frankly all these pictures you're spamming us with of flat chested women and teenagers, don't help your "case", they just make you look like you are defending the very thing the new ToS is designed to stop.

Walking ToS violations going to Adult venues.

 

I'll make it simple for you, if there is ANY doubt about the "age" of an SL avatar, you do NOT bother with WORTHLESS place pic disclaimers, you do NOT judge just on height, but on proportions, and the type of clothing, and the type of AO, and the type of language used, and on general behaviour.

If after that you are still in doubt if it's child-like, you AR it and let Governance sort it out.

Additionally if you are a parcel admin, you might ask them to leave or change, and if they refuse to do either, then you punt them.

 

 

 

No offense but going by your forum profile picture your avatar appears to look between 31-35, so the "I've never been effected" doesn't mean much. You also have a severe case of experience bias. Your personal experience doesn't invalidate other peoples concerns.

Especially to some of us that have been here for 18 years and have seen multiple *geplay scares, moral panics, and witch hunts. 

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, Starberry Passion said:

 

 then what is this? what did they say about the body being what is the most telling?

But it's not.  

[Zalificent Corvinus]

31 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

also, it wasn't my decision to ban them, it was the admin, I was a bouncer, you're assuming.

There's no such thing in SL.

 

If you have bot and ban powers on a parcel, you are an admin, also, if there is a more senior admin, they wouldn't need YOU as they could boot and ban by themselves.

 

Edited May 5 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Roxy Couturier]

18 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

/ me starts to imagine Muppet porn.

🤢

Allow me to introduce you to the internet..

[Leslie Trihey]

1 minute ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Allow me to introduce you to the internet..

[Vanity Fair]

10 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

To announce a new major policy change the day before the weekend when they are not in office and wont comment is also so LL.

THIS. 
Linden Lab never seems to learn, do they?

[Arielle Popstar]

42 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yes, the barely legal teen places love that look.  

You really need to stop equating RL bodies to SL.  People know Taylor Swift is over 18.   She can wear childish clothing and a pacifier if she wants.  

It's the ambiguity of certain looks that causes the problem.

^^^THIS

Governance knows I am over 18 too from my POIF. Doesn't seem to matter.

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

No offense but going by your forum profile picture your avatar appears to look between 31-35, so the "I've never been effected" doesn't mean much. You also have a severe case of experience bias. Your personal experience doesn't invalidate other peoples concerns.

Especially to some of us that have been here for 18 years and have seen multiple *geplay scares, moral panics, and witch hunts. 

 

 

I've used that to check a few of my photos.  I've been detected as anywhere between 15-25.  

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Leslie Trihey said:

No offense but going by your forum profile picture your avatar appears to look between 31-35

The super pale gothic kin tends to make those "age detectors assume people look older., they are alsso notoriously unreliable when you have facial tattoos.

But if you want to waste your life age checking my avatars, knock your self out, here's a few for you.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

9 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

Instead of removing my current fireplace to put the gift one in its place to take a picture of it for my blog (which meant I would have to go through the painstaking task of repositioning my original fireplace afterwards),

For what it's worth, I find dragging the original out of sight, up in the air or off to the side, and then returning it to its position by selecting it in the editor and hitting CTRL-Z works.   Copying the position and rotation of the original and pasting those in the editor both to position the temporary item and then reposition the original works, too.

[Leslie Trihey]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

The super pale gothic kin tends to make those "age detectors assume people look older., they are alsso notoriously unreliable when you have facial tattoos.

But if you want to waste your life age checking my avatars, knock your self out, here's a few for you.

 

Oh I didn't base the age estimation off the detector it merely just verified my thoughts.

But sure, and without the age detector:

1: 21

2: 25-27

3: 31-35

4: 19-21

 

Edited May 5 by Leslie Trihey

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Governance knows I am over 18 too from my POIF. Doesn't seem to matter.

And?  Not sure what that has to do with what I said.

[Leslie Trihey]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I've used that to check a few of my photos.  I've been detected as anywhere between 15-25.  

Oh it's certainly not accurate. But it did make the same age range guess as I did.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Oh I didn't base the age estimation off the detector it merely just verified my thoughts.

But sure, and without the age detector:

1: 21

2: 25-27

3: Mid-thirties

4: 19-21

 

Excellent, you proved how unreliable those things are, the last two usse the same head and body, and the same shape and brow shaper. Only the skin, hair, tattoos on the body, and the colour of the lipstick/eyeshadow changed.

Your age-un-detector said one was mid 30's and the other 19-21.

Utterly useless.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I guess it's not redacted. (I am more than surprised that someone who posts @10 times the rate that I do, would assume that abbreviations would all communicate the same word or phrases internationally)

The short version is redacted, possibly because it is used as slang. No clue, just a guess.

ETA: I never heard of the terms CP/CA until these forums.

Edited May 5 by Love Zhaoying

[Leslie Trihey]

.

 

 

Edited May 5 by Leslie Trihey

[Love Zhaoying]

I propose that discussions of "actual user ages" are off-topic.

 

[Leslie Trihey]

6 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Excellent, you proved how unreliable those things are, the last two usse the same head and body, and the same shape and brow shaper. Only the skin, hair, tattoos on the body, and the colour of the lipstick/eyeshadow changed.

Your age-un-detector said one was mid 30's and the other 19-21.

Utterly useless.

 

I didn't use the age detector. These are MY estimates. I'm using you to prove my point on how much effect that just even makeup layers can have on perceived age. Pictures 3 and 4 use the same head and body, but picture 4 looks "barely legal" at first glance.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

but picture 4 looks "barely legal" at first glance.

And now I know you're trolling.

As for the "makeup layers", both pictures of the same head and body are wearing the exact same lipstick and eyeshadow and eyeliner , no other makeup.

Only difference is the colour, blue and red for lippy and shadow..

 

 

Edited May 5 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

accidental post please delete mods

 

 

FYI: Except this thread, in general, mods don't review every post and your post is not likely to get deleted.

Mods also do not delete posts, or even threads, just because people ask them to. You can of course "report your own post and ask it to be deleted, " but you've changed it so really, deleting it is effort for someone at this point. Some people just change their post to a period (.) in these cases. 

[ValKalAstra]

Uncertainty breeds paranoia breeds overcompensation - which is what's concerning about how this mess is developing. From my personal perspective, as a woman with a small avatar, there's apprehension that people will adjust their expectations towards more hyper avatars "just to be sure".

It's not like this apprehension is born out of nothing. At the height of the Kupra Flavour of the month, there were a lot of statements made on how Maitreya is really just a juvenile looking body and how certain lelutka heads are just bait. There's also the part where my character's bust is judged as small and petite in SL (frequent comment I got), at a size where I've got trouble getting bras big enough in swiss rl stores.

While I like to think that my avatar looks rather adult and mature, there were instances of people thinking otherwise and being very vocal about it. There was also some guy that tried to get me to roleplay as his younger sister, which creeped me out. So, why not change my avatar? Because it's an extension of myself. It's as tall as I can make it, while keeping the proportions, compared to the environment, without it feeling uncomfortable and alien. I've tried and the most I could and did add was twenty centimeters. Anything past that feels off.

Will I be in trouble, will I get kicked out of adult venues? Probably not. At least not often. However the uncertainty breeds paranoia in me too and in my case, the overcompensation is a freezing effect where I wonder if I should hold off on buying things on the Grid, if I should just go and do things other than SL, if I should put a stop to my pictures for now, until everything has calmed down again.

This threads and the way it's boiling up is pointing towards that being a good idea. Will I do so? Dunno, haven't decided yet - but I'm not looking forward to being critiqued and judged on my avatar because of the necessary nature of the fuzzy rules surrounding the issue and the paranoia bred from it.

And yah, I am aware of the irony that I mentioned a hundred pages ago I'd only make that one post as contribution but the mood is just really and notably turning in a direction I dislike.