A skin brand and Maitreya LaraX

[StephanieOMGAH]

Hello all,

Before I get started, I want to be very clear that I am NOT bashing Velour. This issue could very well be my responsibility. I did talk to a CSR there. She asked that I put everything to defaults, which I did. I reset my skeleton, to make sure that was not an issue. Again, I am not trying to be mean to her. She did her job competently.

Here are the specifics:

Head: Lelutka EvoX Avalon 3.1

Head skin purchased at Velour: Myss Sunkiss WB for EvoX

Body Skin: Velour Picasso Babe Modelesque Sunkiss for Lara X

Body Neckfix: Sunkiss Evo X

Eyebrows: Myss Lelutka Evo X - Avalon

Ears: Myss EvoX Sunkiss

Shape: Velour Myss shape (Lelutka EvoX - Avalon)

Avatar: Maitreya LaraX

Ok, I think that is a good listing. Here is a photo of that avatar with the face skin

 

 

What am I doing wrong ?  The face skin works perfectly with Maitreya Lara 5.3. Thank you for any feedback or help you can give me. Once again (for clear understanding), I am not dissing Velour or their CSR. NOT my intent.

Edited April 20 by StephanieOMGAH
forgot body skin

[Persephone Emerald]

What you're seeing is the shadow from your head on the upper part of your neck. If you turn off shadows, you won't see that. 

Also, why do you need a neck fix? If you have the same tone for your body and head, and the head skin is worn above your body skin, you shouldn't need a neck fix.

p.s.

I think the line between your body & head skins may come from different materials settings on your body & head. You are using a BOM skin, right? Not an applier skin from your body's HUD?

I'm not an expert on these things, so I'll leave it to others to explain in better detail.

Edited April 20 by Persephone Emerald

[StephanieOMGAH]

16 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

What you're seeing is the shadow from your head on the upper part of your neck. If you turn off shadows, you won't see that. 

Also, why do you need a neck fix? If you have the same tone for your body and head, and the head skin is worn above your body skin, you shouldn't need a neck fix.

p.s.

I think the line between your body & head skins may come from different materials settings on your body & head. You are using a BOM skin, right? Not an applier skin from your body's HUD?

I'm not an expert on these things, so I'll leave it to others to explain in better detail.

1- I am using CalWL for my lighting. Shadows are off now.

2- Neck fix is now off.

3- I am using a BOM skin, yes, not an applier skin from my body's hud.

4- I have absolutely no clue on how to adjust materials settings.

Here is a NEW photo, as of a few minutes ago, with all modifications above:

 

[Emma Krokus]

Does the order in which you add body and head skin matter?

I wear an ancient classic skin with Velour as the body skin... I have to add the neck fix last for it to work.

Just an idea, this may not be the issue at all...

[CandyCole]

While focusing on a specific issue it might be an idea to lose the hair and perhaps angle yourself, or use a facelight, to get some light under your chin so the shadow does not distract.

Just for information; your face skin will likely have NB and WB versions - No Brows and With Brows, respectively. You also list additional brows, hence double brows which are noticeable at the outer ends. I like thick brows, but just mentioning it.

The order is important, or can be when you want one thing on top of another. Personally I always add the body skin first followed by the face skin. When body and face skin are a matching pair a neck blend isn't always necessary, but that doesn't stop me from adding it anyway.

You can rearrange the order of worn BoM layers within Appearance -> Wearing - then click the spanner/wrench at the top right. Then click on the Up/Down arrows to move the order. So, body skin at the bottom, face skin next up, then neck-blend (if worn) above that. Above those could then be tattoos, makeup, hairy legs or whatever.

From your image it looks like your neck sizes for body and head aren't exactly the same and don't match. Within the LeLutka head-HUD there will be an option to choose the body you are wearing (Maitreya). But this could be due to shadows in the image, or your hair, as mentioned earlier.

Edited April 20 by CandyCole
fluffed

[StephanieOMGAH]

On 4/20/2024 at 4:54 PM, CandyCole said:

While focusing on a specific issue it might be an idea to lose the hair and perhaps angle yourself, or use a facelight, to get some light under your chin so the shadow does not distract.

Just for information; your face skin will likely have NB and WB versions - No Brows and With Brows, respectively. You also list additional brows, hence double brows which are noticeable at the outer ends. I like thick brows, but just mentioning it.

The order is important, or can be when you want one thing on top of another. Personally I always add the body skin first followed by the face skin. When body and face skin are a matching pair a neck blend isn't always necessary, but that doesn't stop me from adding it anyway.

You can rearrange the order of worn BoM layers within Appearance -> Wearing - then click the spanner/wrench at the top right. Then click on the Up/Down arrows to move the order. So, body skin at the bottom, face skin next up, then neck-blend (if worn) above that. Above those could then be tattoos, makeup, hairy legs or whatever.

From your image it looks like your neck sizes for body and head aren't exactly the same and don't match. Within the LeLutka head-HUD there will be an option to choose the body you are wearing (Maitreya). But this could be due to shadows in the image, or your hair, as mentioned earlier.

Ok, I reset my avatar back to "Test Female" (under FS developer menu). I have NO hair for this photo and an official Lelutka facelight attached to my neck. My lighting is CalWL. If there is a better lighting, please let me know. So, afaik, shadows should be eliminated. All shadows are off in my FS viewer. Only one set of eyebrows is added (eyebrow icon, Velour Myss eyebrow). Body skin was added first, then the facial skin. Body and facial skin match exactly, of course. No neck blend is added.

First, the overall photo with the bald head (eeks):

 

[StephanieOMGAH]

14 minutes ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

Ok, I reset my avatar back to "Test Female" (under FS developer menu). I have NO hair for this photo and an official Lelutka facelight attached to my neck. My lighting is CalWL. If there is a better lighting, please let me know. So, afaik, shadows should be eliminated. All shadows are off in my FS viewer. Only one set of eyebrows is added (eyebrow icon, Velour Myss eyebrow). Body skin was added first, then the facial skin. Body and facial skin match exactly, of course. No neck blend is added.

First, the overall photo with the bald head (eeks):

 

 

Now, the closeup photo of my neck, with NO neck blend added and no neck fix applied in Maitreya hud. I have absolutely no idea how to micro-adjust my neck, besides the small adjustments in the Neck section of the Maitreya hud.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 21 by StephanieOMGAH
clarity

[StephanieOMGAH]

12 minutes ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

 

Now, the closeup photo of my neck, with NO neck blend added and no neck fix applied in Maitreya hud. I have absolutely no idea how to micro-adjust my neck, besides the small adjustments in the Neck section of the Maitreya hud.

 

 

 

 

For comparison, here is the official Lelutka facelight added to the default location (left ear). I accidentally left on neckfix but you get the overall idea:

 

 

Edited April 21 by StephanieOMGAH
clarity

[Kathlen Onyx]

You are still wearing two eyebrows.  I also noticed that I had to click Evo and then back to Evo X. Not sure why that is.

Edited April 21 by Kathlen Onyx

[Rowan Amore]

Check the tinting/customization section on the Lelutka HUD.  Make sure you haven't somehow tinted skin at some point.

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

Only one set of eyebrows is added (eyebrow icon, Velour Myss eyebrow).

The eyebrow icon is the browbase which is NOT eyebrows.  It controls the shape and can be edited just like body shape.  It's one of the 4 key elements you must always wear or replace.  You cannot wear 2.  Clear the eyebrow layer on the Lelutka HUD.

[Kathlen Onyx]

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The eyebrow icon is the browbase which is NOT eyebrows.  It controls the shape and can be edited just like body shape.  It's one of the 4 key elements you must always wear or replace.  You cannot wear 2.  Clear the eyebrow layer on the Lelutka HUD.

You are so much better at explaining things. LOL

[Rowan Amore]

Also noticed you're using the applier eyes from the Lelutka HUD.  To.wear applier eyes, use the Alpha in the Lelutka folder says BOM head, BOM body, APPLIER eyes or any other Eye Only Alpha you may have

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Lara 5.3, and presumably LardaX, have a neck fit option on the maitreya hud, it looks like your head and neck don't fit each other, that's a "wrong option" ion the neck fit (neck size/body fat) on the Lara hud.

2 hours ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

for this photo and an official Lelutka facelight attached to my neck. My lighting is CalWL. If there is a better lighting, please let me know

Take off the face light, if it's a directional facelight, and you have ALM turned on or are using the PBR viewer, the FACELIGHT will cast shadows on your neck.

As for CalWL, pretty much ANYTHING is better, including default mid day. Strictly speaking you should NEVER try to match skin tones under anything BUT default midday, as most EEP settings do their own weid thing with ambient, etc, that means you'd end up looking like a badly made up clown to anyone NOT using the same EEP.

People say default midday is "ugly" but it's a useful base for editing colours in, fewer distortions than other EEP settings.

NEVER use neck blends.

 

Material settings for Lelu heads ae on the skin section of the hud, there's a slider for glossyness, turn it off with that, for the body, similar setup, skin tab on the Lara hud, click the "advanced" button bottom left of that tab. The lelu settings are similar to these for eyes, but on the top tab the one like a face.

 

[Orwar]

   Grabbed a demo for the skin (using the Frost tone though, as that's what I have the body tone for), and I'm not seeing any similar issues.

   Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim

   Midday

   And CalWL

   So, what I'd have people do at this stage is to start stripping off layers. No eyebrows, no makeup, no nothing; just the body and head skin, to exclude all possibilities of there being something else causing the issue. At that point, try the different neck sizes in the Maitreya HUD - you've got two different types in there, and if I recall correctly Type 1 is the 'universal neck' option which should have the materials aligned with Lelutka heads. Type 2 (or 1, if I got them backwards) is the 'original' Maitreya materials, which may work better for some older heads.

   If that doesn't do it, make sure you're using the material options that came with the body; on the LaraX HUD, go Skin/Base - Advanced - Material Presets Skin - Option 1 or 2. In the EvoX HUD, go - Skin - Material - Young - Classic or Glossy. Next, compare the sliders for the settings between the EvoX and LaraX HUDs, the glossiness and intensity should be near the same point of their respective sliders (environment you'll generally want to have at 0), also make sure that the tint of the materials are white (or, if you want them a colour, be the same colour).

   Also ensure that the LaraX isn't set to full bright (same place as the material settings), it doesn't look like that's the issue, but it can be hard to tell with pictures sometimes. 

   The skins are also modifiable, so one other potential problem is if you've tinted the BoM layers - right-click and edit them, and make sure the colour/tint is white:

   To make doubly-triply sure there's no issue with the skin, here's the demo of both, using the Maitreya version of the skin, and sun kissed tone, on LaraX and an EvoX 3.1 head:

   Now, there is about a 1.5 pixel gap in the neck, and if you look really closely you may notice that the resolution scale changes (it's a 1024 texture for the entire top body, and a 1024 texture for 'just' the head, so the 'noise' in the skin goes from a little sharper to a little blurred), but as far as SL goes, that's pretty decent (a BoM neck fix, such as those from Izzie's, can help mitigate that transition through elimination of texture detail - the included neck fix BoM layers still have a slight resolution discrepancy which leaves a visible transition line).

   Sooo. Yeah. Something of the aforementioned should fix it, but if nothing does, there's one last thing to try. But I shan't bother writing it out unless it turns out it may be necessary!

[StephanieOMGAH]

2 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Grabbed a demo for the skin (using the Frost tone though, as that's what I have the body tone for), and I'm not seeing any similar issues.

   Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim

   Midday

   And CalWL

   So, what I'd have people do at this stage is to start stripping off layers. No eyebrows, no makeup, no nothing; just the body and head skin, to exclude all possibilities of there being something else causing the issue. At that point, try the different neck sizes in the Maitreya HUD - you've got two different types in there, and if I recall correctly Type 1 is the 'universal neck' option which should have the materials aligned with Lelutka heads. Type 2 (or 1, if I got them backwards) is the 'original' Maitreya materials, which may work better for some older heads.

   If that doesn't do it, make sure you're using the material options that came with the body; on the LaraX HUD, go Skin/Base - Advanced - Material Presets Skin - Option 1 or 2. In the EvoX HUD, go - Skin - Material - Young - Classic or Glossy. Next, compare the sliders for the settings between the EvoX and LaraX HUDs, the glossiness and intensity should be near the same point of their respective sliders (environment you'll generally want to have at 0), also make sure that the tint of the materials are white (or, if you want them a colour, be the same colour).

   Also ensure that the LaraX isn't set to full bright (same place as the material settings), it doesn't look like that's the issue, but it can be hard to tell with pictures sometimes. 

   The skins are also modifiable, so one other potential problem is if you've tinted the BoM layers - right-click and edit them, and make sure the colour/tint is white:

   To make doubly-triply sure there's no issue with the skin, here's the demo of both, using the Maitreya version of the skin, and sun kissed tone, on LaraX and an EvoX 3.1 head:

   Now, there is about a 1.5 pixel gap in the neck, and if you look really closely you may notice that the resolution scale changes (it's a 1024 texture for the entire top body, and a 1024 texture for 'just' the head, so the 'noise' in the skin goes from a little sharper to a little blurred), but as far as SL goes, that's pretty decent (a BoM neck fix, such as those from Izzie's, can help mitigate that transition through elimination of texture detail - the included neck fix BoM layers still have a slight resolution discrepancy which leaves a visible transition line).

   Sooo. Yeah. Something of the aforementioned should fix it, but if nothing does, there's one last thing to try. But I shan't bother writing it out unless it turns out it may be necessary!

Finally ! Izzie's Neck Blender 22 to the rescue. I tried absolutely everything you said, and THAT was what worked. Thank you so much, and thank you so much to everyone in the thread who cared and tried to help me !

Steph

[CandyCole]

28 minutes ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

Finally !

 TFFT! 😁 

[Rowan Amore]

6 hours ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

Finally ! Izzie's Neck Blender 22 to the rescue. I tried absolutely everything you said, and THAT was what worked. Thank you so much, and thank you so much to everyone in the thread who cared and tried to help me !

Steph

I grabbed the Sunkiss demo and the Myss sunkiss demo at velour.  you shouldn't need a neck fix at all.  I think you've tinted your head skin at some point on the Lelu HUD.

As you can see, the head and body are a perfect match.

[StephanieOMGAH]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I grabbed the Sunkiss demo and the Myss sunkiss demo at velour.  you shouldn't need a neck fix at all.  I think you've tinted your head skin at some point on the Lelu HUD.

As you can see, the head and body are a perfect match.

I do not know what to say. I went to Lelutka, got a redelivery on the Lelutka hud for my head. It is set to defaults. I got a redelivery on my head and body skins, all set to default. Same problem. I have examined the head and body skin for tinting. It is set to white. I think it's up to LL or Velour. I have bent over backwards here to make this work, and I may contact LL for them to see if it is my account or my avatar, etc.

Please, everyone, do not waste any more of your precious time on this. I am being serious and not sarcastic. Thank you again for your help.

Steph

[Ze Helix]

Well I'm glad the problem is solved but I'm seriously curious how it could look mismatched one moment, then fixed with only a BoM neckfix being added. I was sure the solution would be removing materials from head and body when it was mentioned that OP wasn't aware of them. I guess I would request pics of the neckfix on and off far enough away that we can see how it blends with the chest and head. But I'm sure OP is sick of this by now hehe. 

[Orwar]

On 4/23/2024 at 7:24 AM, Ze Helix said:

Well I'm glad the problem is solved but I'm seriously curious how it could look mismatched one moment, then fixed with only a BoM neckfix being added.

   I'm a little curious about that myself, especially since both Rowan and I tried the demoes and had no seams on our ends. But, as long as it's fixed. Throws confetti!

[StephanieOMGAH]

14 hours ago, Orwar said:

   I'm a little curious about that myself, especially since both Rowan and I tried the demoes and had no seams on our ends. But, as long as it's fixed. Throws confetti!

I wasn't going to add anything else, but I can understand the curiosity. I will simply tell you what I did:

1- I am a Premium member, so I contacted Linden Lab support, gave her this thread, and asked for help

2- the LL CSR went into my account, looked at everything, adjusted my Maitreya Lara X hud skin preset to this

So, as a non-expert on the topic of skins, all I can say is, it's been fixed. As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with my account, my shapes, etc.

I have double checked the tinting on my head and body skin, and they are both set to white. As far as I can tell, there is no tinting beyond default.

Thank you once again, everyone, for your help and time. I do appreciate it very much, sincerely.

Steph

Edited April 25 by StephanieOMGAH
completeness

[Orwar]

2 hours ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

2- the LL CSR went into my account, looked at everything, adjusted my Maitreya Lara X hud skin preset to this

   But .. Those are skin appliers, which disables BoM, which means you're no longer using the Velour skin that's supposed to go with the head skin.

   As long as you're happy with the results that's of course not really relevant, but it means you get none of the benefits of being BoM (such as the ability to use alpha masks or wear different BoM layers to enhance your skin or add tattoos/scars/body hair/whatevers without using onion layers and deal with all the issues that those tend to bring). 

[StephanieOMGAH]

4 hours ago, Orwar said:

   But .. Those are skin appliers, which disables BoM, which means you're no longer using the Velour skin that's supposed to go with the head skin.

   As long as you're happy with the results that's of course not really relevant, but it means you get none of the benefits of being BoM (such as the ability to use alpha masks or wear different BoM layers to enhance your skin or add tattoos/scars/body hair/whatevers without using onion layers and deal with all the issues that those tend to bring). 

Wow, I have learned tons in this thread, thank you Orwar and everyone else. 

Out of total sheer frustration, I went back to Lelutka and got a fresh copy of my Lelutka head and hud. I did not alter ANY of the settings or tints etc.

I went back to Test Female. Long story short, I *think* getting a fresh uncorrupted copy of my head and hud has done the trick. Photos:

 

my neck with CalWL lighting

 

my neck with MidDay lighting

 

Nam's Optimal Skin and Prim

 

Edited April 25 by StephanieOMGAH
clarity

[Zalificent Corvinus]

7 hours ago, StephanieOMGAH said:

he LL CSR went into my account, looked at everything, adjusted my Maitreya Lara X hud skin preset

 

4 hours ago, Orwar said:

But .. Those are skin appliers, which disables BoM, which means you're no longer using the Velour skin that's supposed to go with the head skin.

 

And THIS is why LL's Livechat support is basically useless.