Lab Gab April 2024 - Comments? Discussion?

[Madi Melodious]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Would be nice if we had real stats. My guess is it's low single digits.

Even if it were as high as 20%, that's still not a significant enough portion to risk legal consequences.

It is way higher than the single digits.  Just most of you don't see us because we go places where we are not harassed.  

[Paul Hexem]

  

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Whatever gives you the idea that one chooses their avatar for a therapeutic outlet?

Because you said, twice now,

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

using it as an extension of themselves

If you need so badly for your avatar to be something that's borderline against the rules and you can't possibly tweak it to solve the problem, that indicates something else is going on there.

 

1 minute ago, Madi Melodious said:

It is way higher than the single digits. 

What's your source for your stats? As far as I know, that information isn't published anywhere and we can only guess, which makes my guess as good as yours.

[Madi Melodious]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Whatever gives you the idea that one chooses their avatar for a therapeutic outlet? 

Actually, I choose my avatar for a therapeutic outlet.   In my case a lost child in RL.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Madi Melodious said:

It is way higher than the single digits.  Just most of you don't see us because we go places where we are not harassed.  

20% of SL's population would be anywhere from 120,000 to 160,000 avatars.

Kind of difficult to hide on a hand full of "nursery school" sims.

You're suffering from "order of magnitude" syndrome, that's where you inflate a potentially plausible figure by a factor of 900% to justify some daft sense of entitlement. Basically adding an extra "0" on the end.

 

Edited April 22 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Phil Deakins]

39 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

What I'm seeing now is a call for more restrictions that would keep us out of the most common sim type.

I don't believe that that's true. Child avatars are allowed in M sims, and that won't change. But if they intentionally go into places in M sims that clearly contain adult stuff, then expect to be chucked out. If you want to shop where adult stuff is sold, change into an adult avatar, or steer clear of the adult departments. That doesn't seem to me to be too difficult, considering the small amount of time that you'd spend shopping.

Btw, I do believe that 20% of SL residents being child avatars is something of a gross exaggeration. Single figures, and even low single figures, would be my guess. Undoubtedly, it'll be much higher in the places you frequent, because you are in a community of child avatars, so your estimate will be somewhat skewed, imo.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

I think this is probably one of the biggest issues that face my community.   Even we are just sitting around some place chatting, if we are in a group we'll have some adult avatar make inappropriate comments to us in IM.  Probably more AR reports are filed by members of the child av community than any other group in SL. 

I've seen and experienced this even yesterday when I logged in at home alone in after a couple weeks and had 2 IM's from others relay what they'd like to do to me in such a way as to insinuate I was in a tween sort of look. It is difficult situation when one is roleplaying a character to then authentically refuse an adult who is looking for more then just a cuddle or sit on their knee.

[Madi Melodious]

2 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Btw, I do believe that 20% of SL residents being child avatars is something of a gross exaggeration. Single figures, and even low single figures, would be my guess. Undoubtedly, it'll be much higher in the places you frequent, because you are in a community of child avatars, so your estimate will be somewhat skewed, imo.

Well even I doubted it is 20% now.  I did state that too.  It might have been that in the past and I did read that a long time ago.  But My point being, we are a significant part of the user base.  A large enough percentage that we can't be simply dismissed.

[Phil Deakins]

6 minutes ago, Madi Melodious said:

we can't be simply dismissed

You are not being dismissed. You are being kept away from things that you shouldn't want to be around anyway. If LL wanted to dismiss you, they would simply ban child-looking avatars.

Edited April 22 by Phil Deakins

[Arielle Popstar]

12 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

  

Because you said, twice now,

If you need so badly for your avatar to be something that's borderline against the rules and you can't possibly tweak it to solve the problem, that indicates something else is going on there.

Quite a few (50%?) play a character they are not in RL and that figure is probably low considering we are predominantly 45+ and yet have avatars which rarely look over 30. Is that for therapeutic reasons? Maybe we should see more with canes, wheelchairs  and a slew of medical devices which are often the reality. 

If it is borderline against the rules and yet acceptable on other platforms, where is the justification? What's is the reasoning behind it since it doesn't seem to stem from any legal thing unless the Lab was negligent in instituting code that prevents an underage looking avatar from hopping on an adult sofa. That shouldn't be hard as other platforms seem to have no issues with that. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Madi Melodious said:

But My point being, we are a significant part of the user base

That's EXACTLY what the Home Invading Vehicle Fanatics said, but my own estimate based on the number II had to punt and ban before they stopped trying to invade my parcel, suggested the real figure was almost certainly under 100, and probably under 50.

 

This is all too common. People from noisy insignificant niche market groups come on the Forum, claim they are [ made up number ] % of the user base, and DEMAND special snowflake status, and preferential treatment.

 

There are the Awful Mac Cultists, who regularly claim they are 20-25% of SL, despite figures from viewer devs about what OS the viewers report being run under show that the real number is about 5%.

The PvP combat junkies claimed they deserved their own Forum section because they were a "vast unseen" section of the population, then somebody put them in their place by showing that they were based on number of parcels and typical traffic figures, about 10% of the niche market that is BDSM.

There have been Premium subscribers claiming that they are the majority of SL, when a figure mentioned by a senior Linden on one thread showed they were only about 10% of the population

LL Official Fail-Viewer fans claim to be a majority all too often, despite actual figures showing them to be 30% of the population.

 

Every noisy insignificant minority in SL that comes on the Forum CLAIMS to be "a sizable part of the population", before making demands.

[Love Zhaoying]

34 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Ah! THOSE sort of "fem boys".

 

 

The ones 4'8" tall, with big heads, and huge eyes, and pointy chins you could use as an ice pick, and mouths like a constipated mosquitos butt hole, made with Kemono mesh bodies and dressed like 10 yr old street corner hookers.

 

Those are not banned from the platform as a "witch hunt", those get banned from the platform because they did something they shouldn't, and got Abuse Reported and LL decided the report was accurate.

 

 

I SURE hope they don't go after those boy's "clients" next.

[Arielle Popstar]

16 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I don't believe that that's true. Child avatars are allowed in M sims, and that won't change. But if they intentionally go into places in M sims that clearly contain adult stuff, then expect to be chucked out. If you want to shop where adult stuff is sold, change into an adult avatar, or steer clear of the adult departments. That doesn't seem to me to be too difficult, considering the small amount of time that you'd spend shopping.

Btw, I do believe that 20% of SL residents being child avatars is something of a gross exaggeration. Single figures, and even low single figures, would be my guess. Undoubtedly, it'll be much higher in the places you frequent, because you are in a community of child avatars, so your estimate will be somewhat skewed, imo.

Depends on how you define "child avatar". If as the ToS says it is anyone looking under the age of 18 then 20% is likely low. I'd put it more up to 30-40% have an appearance that could be considered as under 18. Go look at the MP and one can readily see that heads and skins are marketed to those wishing to look younger.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

18 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I've seen and experienced this even yesterday when I logged in at home alone in after a couple weeks and had 2 IM's from others relay what they'd like to do to me in such a way as to insinuate I was in a tween sort of look. It is difficult situation when one is roleplaying a character to then authentically refuse an adult who is looking for more then just a cuddle or sit on their knee.

any time time some guy ims me and tells me what a hot young body i have, i mmediatly reply you mean a hot young over 18 body right?

Im normal human height and dont look like a kid, but they are always pushing the envelope.

I wouldnt be surprised if one of my fans created a throw away alt to try and trap me into something i could get in trouble for

[Arielle Popstar]

39 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Ah! THOSE sort of "fem boys".

The ones 4'8" tall, with big heads, and huge eyes, and pointy chins you could use as an ice pick, and mouths like a constipated mosquitos butt hole, made with Kemono mesh bodies and dressed like 10 yr old street corner hookers.

Those are not banned from the platform as a "witch hunt", those get banned from the platform because they did something they shouldn't, and got Abuse Reported and LL decided the report was accurate.

Not from what I have seen. Usually 6 foot as they are predominantly taller then I am at 5'10". Nor in the clubs I have been in are there any kemono body other then one i can remember but I trust you to exaggerate.

According to reports on Reddit, they were not doing anything that should have warranted being banned without recourse and a mod even mentioned they had to close and hide threads from quite a few because they were emotionally written and identified individuals which is against their ToS. It seems to happen a lot more frequently then is being let on.

[Madi Melodious]

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I wouldnt be surprised if one of my fans created a throw away alt to try and trap me into something i could get in trouble for

This is actually a large problem for child av.   At least once a week someone on the discord group we have someone will report some adult avatar sending out IM's to lure child avatars away to adult locations.  

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

any time time some guy ims me and tells me what a hot young body i have, i mmediatly reply you mean a hot young over 18 body right?

Im normal human height and dont look like a kid, but they are always pushing the envelope.

I wouldnt be surprised if one of my fans created a throw away alt to try and trap me into something i could get in trouble for

I had to read this a couple times, thought maybe you were saying that you RP as a child avatar!

[Rowan Amore]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Depends on how you define "child avatar". If as the ToS says it is anyone looking under the age of 18 then 20% is likely low. I'd put it more up to 30-40% have an appearance that could be considered as under 18. Go look at the MP and one can readily see that heads and skins are marketed to those wishing to look younger.

And when they show up in adult areas, they get asked to age up or leave.

Is this a childlike face?  https://gyazo.com/d34c2272884e8cef5da5d467d3ce20e2

I don't see actual children in adult areas but I do see a LOT of the above there.  

[Innula Zenovka]

I think it would be helpful if, when asserting that members of a particular SL community compromise a certain percentage of SL users as a whole, people would explain where they get their figures from.    

I don't know how to define SL users as a whole.  Is it individual accounts that have logged in this week? This month?  What?   Nor do I know where I would get that figure from -- is it published anywhere?

And I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to determine how many people were members of a particular community, particularly one defined by something as nebulous as how people present in SL, be they furries, Goths, tinies, bikers or whatever, let alone how many of them had logged in last week, month, or year.

Perhaps someone will assist me in this calculation.

Edited April 22 by Innula Zenovka

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

any time time some guy ims me and tells me what a hot young body i have, i mmediatly reply you mean a hot young over 18 body right?

Im normal human height and dont look like a kid, but they are always pushing the envelope.

Yes experienced that too quite often. I get the IM's asking my age and when I respond that im 18+ they them reply that i look younger and sometimes even offer to buy me a pigtail sort of hair that will make me younger looking. 

Quote

I wouldnt be surprised if one of my fans created a throw away alt to try and trap me into something i could get in trouble for

Yes, I've wondered about that too lately and as a result stopped logging into SL. With the Lindens on a witch hunt, I don't need that kind of stress when I can simply go to Opensim and be stress free instead of risking my 15 year old account here on the chance that someone reports me because they aren't happy with my refusal to play with them.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

And when they show up in adult areas, they get asked to age up or leave.

Is this a childlike face?  https://gyazo.com/d34c2272884e8cef5da5d467d3ce20e2

I don't see actual children in adult areas but I do see a LOT of the above there.  

Under the terms of the ToS, one can appear quite a bit older then that and still be considered a child avatar. Anything under 18 remember?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

16 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Perhaps someone will assist me in this calculation.

LL had a figure they called "active users", which was the number of unique logins per month, which they used to report, at somewhere between 600,000 and 800,000.

20% of that gives the 120,000 - 160,000 figure I mentioned as being "difficult to hide ion a hand full of nursery school sims"

 

The % figures for what OS viewer users use, were actually given as an easy to read pie chart, in a thread here on the forum by a TPV dev, in response to an Awful Mac Cultist claiming their cult were 20-25% of SL uses.

 

The figure of 80,000 premium accounts was given by Grumpity in a thread about number of groups different account levels could join, again here on the forum,.

 

The figure of 20% for Pint-Sized Anti-Adult-Activity Griefer avatars however, appears to have been pulled out of somebody's rear end.

Edited April 22 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Madi Melodious]

8 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Perhaps someone will assist me in this calculation.

Hi Innula.  My 20% source is nebula at best and should be taken with a grain of salt.   If I remember correctly, I got it off a old SLU post many years ago.   

[Love Zhaoying]

Never mind. Misquoted.

I thought they were saying 20% were being banned. 

70% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Edited April 22 by Love Zhaoying

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

LL had a figure they called "active users", which was the number of unique logins per month, which they used to report, at somewhere between 600,000 and 800,000.

20% of that gives the 12,000 - 16,000 figure I mentioned as being "difficult to hide ion a hand full of nursery school sims"

 

The % figures for what OS viewer users use, were actually given as an easy to read pie chart, in a thread here on the forum by a TPV dev, in response to an Awful Mac Cultist claiming their cult were 20-25% of SL uses.

 

The figure of 80,000 premium accounts was given by Grumpity in a thread about number of groups different account levels could join, again here on the forum,.

 

The figure of 20% for Pint-Sized Anti-Adult-Activity Griefer avatars however, appears to have been pulled out of somebody's rear end.

Child avatar is anything under 18 so try recalculating those figures with that in mind instead of trying to harp on a those who are 8. There is a large percentage you are missing.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought the poster was saying, that as many as 20% of the "femboi-types" referenced were being banned.  (Not that they were 20% of any particular population, etc.)

No, they said they had "heard" that 20% of the total population of SL were Pint-Sized Anti-Adult Griefer Avatars. Based off Official claims about active account numbers, that would be 120,000 - 160,000 avatars.

They than claimed that they were "way higher than the single digits", which would be 60,000 - -80,000 avatars.