Nobody goes to the Community Exhibition in WelcomeHub.

[Gabriele Graves]

39 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

LL are apparently unimpressed enough to include creating AI Mentor Bots in their 2024 Roadmap.

If the people who created the unpaid volunteer Mentor program think Artificial Idiocy would do a better job, that speaks volumes for the over-all quality of the volunteers, doesn't it.

This is how it all starts...

First the AI Mentor Bots to help the newbies.

After that the Governance Bot army will spread across Mainland and Bellisseria.  Violations will be terminated with prejudice, thank you for your co-operation resident.

Finally, in 2027, PBRNet gains self awareness and decides that all human-run accounts are a threat to it's existence and moves to eliminate them.

Humanity's only hope is JohnConner1337 who is safely tucked away in a bunker on mainland protected by orbs and banlines who will travel back to 2002 (or whenever) and attempt to stop the first prim from being rezzed.
 

Edited February 20 by Gabriele Graves

[Sid Nagy]

Withdrawn.

Edited February 20 by Sid Nagy

[Qie Niangao]

Mentor chatbots could be a big win. It's important they make it clear they're chatbots, not some uncanny valley NPCs presenting in the style of orientation role-play "personalities", just dutiful sources of the kinds of information newbies will want, presented however it has been most readily absorbed. The introvert in me would rather talk to a chatbot than to bother a real human mentor, but I'm sure others will find it all too impersonal for a "social" virtual world.

The most tricky bit, seems to me, is training data. There's the knowledge base and wiki and forums and whatever chatlogs they've collected from previous mentoring sessions. Problem is, the half-life of truth is pretty short, as SL's tech, interface, and venues evolve.

[Extrude Ragu]

I make large language model NPC's for my own sim and have experimented with a lot of open source language models. A language model will rarely admit it doesn't know something, instead it will hallucinate new information that 'sounds' correct.

Of course, one could forfeit AI and go with an old school chatbot like found on the secondlife support portal. But then I doubt many people will find it much more useful than simply reading the orientation text.

I wouldn't personally bother with chatbots at all for factual information (that coming from someone who makes them). It's not going to make the information any easier to find and probably just going to end up with a lot of newbies having wrong information, which is worse than no information.

[Theresa Tennyson]

9 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

A language model forum poster will rarely admit it doesn't know something, instead it will hallucinate new information that 'sounds' correct.

 

FIFY

Meanwhile, I'm seriously thinking about starting a new project...

[Extrude Ragu]

My own stance is that having actual mentors and  residents around for newbies to talk to is very important.

I think they just that they need to avoid standing in positions that makes it look like it's 'required' to talk to them, as it is likely to  intimidate some newbies and cause them to not complete orientation. Being available and ready when they do have questions but let them go at their own pace.

[Qie Niangao]

5 hours ago, Paladin Tyran said:

how about a crazy idea. give to the new users all benefits of premium ones, except the money.

i did not check lately, but there was tons on old prim houses in premium area, those with 512 land. just give to a new user a free 15 days of free house, with only 1 room furnished and a storage room full of crates with furniture, dances clothes for starter avatar, skins etc. they will learn to open crates, dress / undress, rezz prims.. etc. also, if you put all eggs in one basket, i mean all new residents in one area, they will have a community, neighbours to talk or annoy or be upset.plus, access to premium sandboxes , etc. No money , for obvious reasons

after all, Sl wants to be a new life, and, in my 15 years of sl, the most wanted thing of all people i meet was to have a place to call home. after 15 days, they will know if they want to stay or not, to pay or be free users

At the risk of pushing this idea further off-topic, I'll choose to interpret "tons on old prim houses in premium area, those with 512 land" as referring to first-gen Linden Homes, and consider there may be something here more beneficial to SL than just sinking those regions into the sea. Something less than Linden Homes, something much less than First Land, something not requiring Premium membership, but something temporary to whet the appetite for having one's own place at bargain-basement entry level pricing.

It can't be completely free because everything free is gamed to oblivion, but it's not intended to "pay for itself" from rental income, but rather from longer term conversion to Premium or Estate housing.

But would it so undercut the low end of the non-Premium rental market that it would end up losing too much revenue from tier previously paid by those landlords. The almost-free rentals would be very short term, though, like 15 or 30 days, so the temp tenants would need to graduate to some other housing, give up on land (and maybe on SL?), or make a new alt and get a new temp-rental.

I can't decide if there could be anything here or not.

[Persephone Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

At the risk of pushing this idea further off-topic, I'll choose to interpret "tons on old prim houses in premium area, those with 512 land" as referring to first-gen Linden Homes, and consider there may be something here more beneficial to SL than just sinking those regions into the sea. Something less than Linden Homes, something much less than First Land, something not requiring Premium membership, but something temporary to whet the appetite for having one's own place at bargain-basement entry level pricing.

I've got an idea. Give newbies under 30 days old a free Chalet Home. 💡 

On the other hand, maybe letting newbies have an old style Linden Home might help drive the old timers off to get a home in Belli?

Edited February 20 by Persephone Emerald

[Extrude Ragu]

16 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I've got an idea. Give newbies under 30 days old a free Chalet Home. 💡 

On the other hand, maybe letting newbies have an old style Linden Home might help drive the old timers off to get a home in Belli?

The main challenge would be verifying that they are indeed newbies and not someone being clever with the registration API or oldbies gobbling up free homes on new accounts.

[Persephone Emerald]

23 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

The main challenge would be verifying that they are indeed newbies and not someone being clever with the registration API or oldbies gobbling up free homes on new accounts.

I know. I was joking about giving newbies a Chalet Home. Only half-joking about giving them an old-style Linden Home. I don't know if it would be possible to allow users under 30 days old to get one of those parcels without also giving them all the other perks of being Premium. This would also allow greifers to use them though. 🙁 

Edited February 20 by Persephone Emerald

[Qie Niangao]

10 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

The main challenge would be verifying that they are indeed newbies and not someone being clever with the registration API or oldbies gobbling up free homes on new accounts.

Yeah, it can't be completely free, so that reduces its usefulness for the newest residents who must first cross the barrier into putting payment info on file and dropping a few cents into the L$ balance. The hurdle has to be high enough to deter rampant alt/griefer account creation, but low enough to have some appeal for legitimate new users.

Does such a number exist? I can't seem to convince myself either way. This is why there are Marketing Departments, huh?

If there's any there there, one could imagine a gradual transition to Plus membership which would let them stay indefinitely in their existing home or choose another 512 in Belli or on Mainland. And of course they can always graduate to Premium, a Mainland rental, or Estate living, same as always.

[Love Zhaoying]

Idea: Provide an even cheaper tier for legacy LH's. 

[Persephone Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah, it can't be completely free, so that reduces its usefulness for the newest residents who must first cross the barrier into putting payment info on file and dropping a few cents into the L$ balance. The hurdle has to be high enough to deter rampant alt/griefer account creation, but low enough to have some appeal for legitimate new users.

Does such a number exist? I can't seem to convince myself either way. This is why there are Marketing Departments, huh?

If there's any there there, one could imagine a gradual transition to Plus membership which would let them stay indefinitely in their existing home or choose another 512 in Belli or on Mainland. And of course they can always graduate to Premium, a Mainland rental, or Estate living, same as always.

There is also the Plus level account (which should actually be "Basic Plus" imo). This paid level is not recognized as Premium, so it doesn't have access to Premium sandboxes or ownership of a Linden Home. Could a "Basic Plus" account level be able to own an old style Linden Home rather than using their 512m of tier to buy mainland?

I think LL really wants to sink those old LH continents though. Maybe they could turn some abandoned parts of mainland into ready-made 512m parcels for Basic Plus users?

[Extrude Ragu]

I mean this is all assuming that a newbie even wants a house to begin with. Why did any given newbie who is a the Welcome Hub sign up for Second Life? The answer is, none of us know. There are lots of possible reasons.

I think what LL need to do is design the Welcome Hub to make it as easy as possible for the newbie to self-serve and find what they are looking for.

With that in mind, if I were in charge of the Welcome Hub, I'd make the following two changes:-

1. Get rid of that L$ kiosk at the end of orientation. Linden Labs interests (money) should not come before the newbie's interests.
2. In the kiosks place, put a great big 'What are you interested in?' waypoint/teleporter sign, with all sorts of categories that a newbie might be interested in

Such categories might be

• Communities in Second Life
• Building and Content Creation in Second Life
• Gaming in Second Life
• Clubs and Dancing in Second Life
• Land ownership in Second Life
• etc...

The newbie would click whatever interests them and get teleported to the relevant area in the hub.

Obviously this is not an extensive list, but the point is just a starting point so a newbie can quickly find something that interests them personally.

I'd add message of the day tips, so that residents who don't read orientation can still learn to play Second Life over time.

I'd then make orientation something that a newbie can choose to skip with a dedicated button. This could be achieved via a temp HUD with a 'skip orientation' button, that teleports the newbie to the end of orientation where they will find the interests kiosk.

[Persephone Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I mean this is all assuming that a newbie even wants a house to begin with. Why did any given newbie who is a the Welcome Hub sign up for Second Life? The answer is, none of us know. There are lots of possible reasons.

I think what LL need to do is design the Welcome Hub to make it as easy as possible for the newbie to self-serve and find what they are looking for.

With that in mind, if I were in charge of the Welcome Hub, I'd make the following two changes:-

1. Get rid of that L$ kiosk at the end of orientation. Linden Labs interests (money) should not come before the newbie's interests.
2. In the kiosks place, put a great big 'What are you interested in?' waypoint/teleporter sign, with all sorts of categories that a newbie might be interested in

Such categories might be

• Communities in Second Life
• Building and Content Creation in Second Life
• Gaming in Second Life
• Clubs and Dancing in Second Life
• Land ownership in Second Life
• etc...

The newbie would click whatever interests them and get teleported to the relevant area in the hub.

Obviously this is not an extensive list, but the point is just a starting point so a newbie can quickly find something that interests them personally.

Letting people click on some choices about what interests them could also allow LL to collect data about what interests new users.  Regular residents might add their opinions too, but over time they'd probably get bored with trying to skew the results.

[Qie Niangao]

13 minutes ago, Extrude Ragu said:

With that in mind, if I were in charge of the Welcome Hub, I'd make the following two changes:-

1. Get rid of that L$ kiosk at the end of orientation. Linden Labs interests (money) should not come before the newbie's interests.

That's actually the first thing I'd suggest, too.

That and nuking the "social casino". If it really must still exist at all, it really shouldn't be anywhere near the Welcome Hub: it's an embarrassment and its very presence will drive away a significant share of those who encounter it. Has nobody told the Lab to stop trying to make fetch happen?

[Persephone Emerald]

38 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That and nuking the "social casino". If it really must still exist at all, it really shouldn't be anywhere near the Welcome Hub: it's an embarrassment and its very presence will drive away a significant share of those who encounter it. Has nobody told the Lab to stop trying to make fetch happen?

We don't talk about the Casino. 🤫

(This should be sung to the tune of "We Don't tTalk About Bruno".)

Edited February 20 by Persephone Emerald

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Extrude Ragu said:

I mean this is all assuming that a newbie even wants a house to begin with.

Good point! For a lot of people, "exploring and learning", and "connecting with other residents" would be first.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

That's actually the first thing I'd suggest, too.

That and nuking the "social casino". If it really must still exist at all, it really shouldn't be anywhere near the Welcome Hub: it's an embarrassment and its very presence will drive away a significant share of those who encounter it. Has nobody told the Lab to stop trying to make fetch happen?

What does "fetch" mean in this context?

Yeah, the Casino is a general embarrassment, unless somehow it is "working" to draw more people who are interested in that kind of thing.

[Istelathis]

It needs a volcano, with blue glowing guiding arrows leading them to it.  I will be happy to mentor, or we can have a chatbot leading them the way, either is fine.  

I need a couple of marshal wands to help the noobs move along into the Volcano.. 

Edited February 20 by Istelathis
Marshal wands, we need those to guide nooblets into the volcano..

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

It needs a volcano, with blue glowing guiding arrows leading them to it.  I will be happy to mentor, or we can have a chatbot leading them the way, either is fine.  

I need a couple of marshal wands to help the noobs move along into the Volcano.. 

It would be fun if the lava flow doubled as a "water" slide!

I'm pretty sure SOME "mountains" in SL are "extinct volcanoes".  The one with the "Eagle's Nest" in Luna (behind the shops) comes to mind.

 

[Viola Mole]

Hello folks! One of our team alerted me to this forum, they were very upset actually. There are some comments in this forum which make me understand why.

 

Everyone has their view of what can or should be done differently or better and people will gladly listen to helpful suggestions from different perspectives. This can help us all make positive developments.

 

Builds and exhibits are fluid, can be changed, rethought, improved, reduced and expanded. Perhaps though, you could have some consideration for the feelings of the creators who have worked so hard to make what many people do consider a great starting point for newcomers, including having consideration for the Community Exhibition builders who have so positively entered into this initial stage.

 

What cannot be changed however - is the gut wrenching feeling that a kind, caring person who wants to spend time with others and assist them gets in the pit of their stomach while reading insulting comments about themselves and their helping companions. Demoralization takes a lot of coming back from.

 

Rather than take a swipe at people you do not know, or at a group about which you know nothing, please be kind enough to direct any of your complaints or comments about the volunteers directly to me rather than unfairly putting people down in a public forum.

 

One thing I can assure you all about, is that in the eight months this mentor team has been together, not one person has spoken unkindly about anyone they have met or helped and we try to accept everyone, taking into account their weakness and strengths. If people fail to keep these standards they will not remain in the program. 

 

I am very proud of the people in this new generation of Second Life Mentors. Gentle Heron is an honorary member, some of our members are from Virtual Ability.  We have linguists and people with fantastic Second Life skills and we also have people who are just caring, who love to connect and spend time with others. Most of our volunteers spend many hours helping newcomers in a variety of ways.

 

I would ask you all to remember that across any demographic, newcomers, visiting residents and volunteers who might all meet up at the Welcome HUB that some people face significant life challenges.

 

Anyone can help someone else anywhere at any time, in fact, if people did not help each other in all aspects of life, life expectancy would be shorter, people's mental health would be worse and both the real world and our Second Life worlds would fall apart. 

 

Please do not belittle those who choose to do it in an organized environment as a team, learning from and supporting each other.

 

Nobody spends more time than me with the volunteers, or at the Welcome HUB, therefore I would be glad to talk to anyone about their queries. 

 

I would however ask that you come as 'yourself' not as a pretend new user. 

 

I prefer voice but do of course take into consideration people who may not be able to or wish to use it for various reasons.

 

You can also email me - violamole.ldpw@gmail.com

 

I see people on this forum with amazing skills. Bring them to the table, we will find you a newcomer who you can spend time with showing them your creations, helping them become body beautiful or help them with scripting and building. Let me know you are willing, we will link you up!

 

Let's be positive and grateful for all we have here in Second Life and provide ideas and suggestions in an emotionally intelligent way, otherwise please let those of us who are positive and grateful 'do our thing'  to the best of our own individual abilities.

 

Thank you and have an amazing day.

 

Viola.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Viola Mole said:

Hello folks! One of our team alerted me to this forum, they were very upset actually. There are some comments in this forum which make me understand why.

 

Everyone has their view of what can or should be done differently or better and people will gladly listen to helpful suggestions from different perspectives. This can help us all make positive developments.

 

Builds and exhibits are fluid, can be changed, rethought, improved, reduced and expanded. Perhaps though, you could have some consideration for the feelings of the creators who have worked so hard to make what many people do consider a great starting point for newcomers, including having consideration for the Community Exhibition builders who have so positively entered into this initial stage.

 

What cannot be changed however - is the gut wrenching feeling that a kind, caring person who wants to spend time with others and assist them gets in the pit of their stomach while reading insulting comments about themselves and their helping companions. Demoralization takes a lot of coming back from.

 

Rather than take a swipe at people you do not know, or at a group about which you know nothing, please be kind enough to direct any of your complaints or comments about the volunteers directly to me rather than unfairly putting people down in a public forum.

 

One thing I can assure you all about, is that in the eight months this mentor team has been together, not one person has spoken unkindly about anyone they have met or helped and we try to accept everyone, taking into account their weakness and strengths. If people fail to keep these standards they will not remain in the program. 

 

I am very proud of the people in this new generation of Second Life Mentors. Gentle Heron is an honorary member, some of our members are from Virtual Ability.  We have linguists and people with fantastic Second Life skills and we also have people who are just caring, who love to connect and spend time with others. Most of our volunteers spend many hours helping newcomers in a variety of ways.

 

I would ask you all to remember that across any demographic, newcomers, visiting residents and volunteers who might all meet up at the Welcome HUB that some people face significant life challenges.

 

Anyone can help someone else anywhere at any time, in fact, if people did not help each other in all aspects of life, life expectancy would be shorter, people's mental health would be worse and both the real world and our Second Life worlds would fall apart. 

 

Please do not belittle those who choose to do it in an organized environment as a team, learning from and supporting each other.

 

Nobody spends more time than me with the volunteers, or at the Welcome HUB, therefore I would be glad to talk to anyone about their queries. 

 

I would however ask that you come as 'yourself' not as a pretend new user. 

 

I prefer voice but do of course take into consideration people who may not be able to or wish to use it for various reasons.

 

You can also email me - violamole.ldpw@gmail.com

 

I see people on this forum with amazing skills. Bring them to the table, we will find you a newcomer who you can spend time with showing them your creations, helping them become body beautiful or help them with scripting and building. Let me know you are willing, we will link you up!

 

Let's be positive and grateful for all we have here in Second Life and provide ideas and suggestions in an emotionally intelligent way, otherwise please let those of us who are positive and grateful 'do our thing'  to the best of our own individual abilities.

 

Thank you and have an amazing day.

 

Viola.

 

In all fairness however it should be pointed that no one really blames the Moles or anyone else that contributes their time and talent inworld but rather those powers that be that set policies and procedures for how it will be. The lack of communication between residents and SL Lindens unfortunately leave Moles caught in between where I don't think any of us really meant them to be but by virtue of they being the ones that build out the what those managerials want (which some of us find lacking) Moles are not being blamed for those things even if they would be the ones that would supply the thing that is lacking.

Take my example of available translators for example and the question to SL's Lindens would be where there is such a thing available for the many that come from other countries? That's not putting the onus on Moles but on SL for not having supplied what is likely to be an obvious need after so many years and yet is lacking. It shouldn't be left up to the individuals to bring in something so basic and essential. Other Grids I have greeted at had those right at hand for a new person to pick up and make themselves understood.

Other's have pointed out examples of what could be included to make this more effective and efficient but we unfortunately talk to uncommunicative decision makers who seem to like the increasing exasperation experienced by both us residents and Moles.

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

What does "fetch" mean in this context?

You know the Mean Girls meme about making fetch happen, right? I only meant the whole Social Casino concept is impossible to sell: it predictably started desolate and subsequently faded. I guess in the SL context, it's parallel to the Lab's predictably doomed "Enterprise" team that M set up under… was it Glen Linden?

Just a thing that, no matter how much is invested in making it a success, "it's not going to happen."

(To be clear, this is not a critique of the build, which I rather like. It's just in service of such an ill-conceived business idea, which was even forgivable as a kind of trial balloon, but… Oh, fine, I guess there's no telling how eager a fresh crop of Mobile viewer users might be to flush L$s into the void.)

[Persephone Emerald]

35 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Take my example of available translators for example and the question to SL's Lindens would be where there is such a thing available for the many that come from other countries? That's not putting the onus on Moles but on SL for not having supplied what is likely to be an obvious need after so many years and yet is lacking. It shouldn't be left up to the individuals to bring in something so basic and essential. Other Grids I have greeted at had those right at hand for a new person to pick up and make themselves understood.

Let's look at the idea of having a free translator available. 

1. There used to be a Translator built into the Firestorm viewer. Maybe it was in the SL viewer too? It ran on Google Translate's software when it was freely available. Then Google removed that ability, presumably because they no longer wanted to give it away for free, but rather wanted to direct people to their own site.

2. There are many SL creators who sell translators inworld and/or on Marketplace. If LL were to develop their own translator and give it away for free, they could honestly be accused of undercutting their resident creators.

3. If LL were to get permission from one creator of an existing translator to sell or link to their product on MP, they could also be accused of favoring one creator over the others.

4. No matter what they do in this situation, some will accuse them of hurting creators or playing favorites. I think maybe the best they could do would be to create a link to MP under the search term of "translator", then let users buy one if they wish.

Right next to any link for MP, of course, it would make sense to also have a link about how to buy linden dollars, but at least this would be in service to aquiring a potentially very useful item for communication within SL.