Qie Niangao Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: Wow, just wow. Talk about a narrow viewpoint. I'm tired of pussyfooting around this while folks seem bewildered that Mainland is loosing market viability while its replacement grows. The mistake was made long ago when the Lab missed the opportunity to make special "privacy" features be the exclusive domain of Estates that could choose to charge whatever premium that market can actually command. So it's too late now, but the result is obvious: Mainland becomes more and more the domain of isolation-seekers while the alternative eats the grid. I'm not crazy about those choices, by the way. Belli is a bit "assisted living condo" to Mainland's increasingly dystopian wasteland, vacant save for warring outposts of robo-assassins. That's why I was so pleased over the holidays to find a very nice patch of snowland regions with nary an orb nor banline and, correspondingly, quite pleasant and creative builds. These places exist, despite every market force against them. If there were more, Belli would have some actual competition from a viable Mainland. But I wouldn't start buying up Mainland on the expectation of that good will spreading. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: I'm tired of pussyfooting around this while folks seem bewildered that Mainland is loosing market viability while its replacement grows. The mistake was made long ago when the Lab missed the opportunity to make special "privacy" features be the exclusive domain of Estates that could choose to charge whatever premium that market can actually command. So it's too late now, but the result is obvious: Mainland becomes more and more the domain of isolation-seekers while the alternative eats the grid. Or that's just one point of view, which while you are entitled to hold it, but isn't necessarily fact. Bellisseria has the advantage that land flippers cannot affect availability and yet while there is high ownership overall, just like with mainland there are relatively low numbers of people using it at any one time. If people want special "privacy" features, they would be going to the estates - not Bellisseria which has the most lax privacy overall. Edited January 14 by Gabriele Graves 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persephone Emerald Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: There will be no disgruntlement, or confusion because LL will only convert EMPTY sims to Mainland 2.0 . Its all about choice, you can choose to search high and low for a parcel that is reasonably priced, and not blighted, or you can go to the LL homepage and choose a 4096 from LL, knowing you wont be plagued by the issues of regular mainland. It will fill a niche that is untapped and unfulfilled And sorry but adult Belli will still be Belli, a suburban wasteland, or more accurately, considering a previous post, a retirement village for those worn out from the trials and tribulations of living on mainland. Just had another thought, land flippers will love it too, because as mainland sims convert to mainland 2.0, original mainland will increase in value as it becomes more scarce. There will always be people wanting the total freedom of mainland, so it will never be entirely converted to mainland 2.0, and land flippers will always exist and flourish What percentage of people who get a Linden Home in Bellesseria do you think actually read the covenant? What percentage of people taking your Mainland 2.0 regions do you think would read and follow a covenant for it? Do you think LL has enough Moles or Lindens to monitor all these new regions to make sure no one has low hanging skyboxes or walls over 10 m high? They can't even fully monitor rotaing signs or Adult content on Moderate or General land now. They will always have to depend on other residents policing and reporting their neighbors, which would be less likely to happen in scattered regions than on distinct residential continents such as Bellisseria. Let me suggest another version of Mainland 2.0. What if LL were to complete Corsica IV by adding a river and adjacent protected Linden land, then continuing the continent with regions that allow commerce, but forbid skyboxes below 2000 m or walls higher than 5 meters? These regions should have Linden roads, and should allow the buying and selling of parcels 256 square meters or greater. No rotating signs. All regions to be Moderate land. This would be a small experiment in more restricted mainland, so see how popular it might be. In keeping with the more adult side of SL theme for 2024, I think they might also complete the Zendra continent and add a Bellisseria-style Adult residential continent, accessible from Zendra. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 7 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: There will be no disgruntlement, or confusion because LL will only convert EMPTY sims to Mainland 2.0 a issue with this is when a person puts a whole mainland region up for sale they get snapped up pretty quickly no matter where the region is on the rare occasion that a whole mainland region is abandoned (or taken back by Linden thru non-payment of tier) then the region gets snapped up pretty quickly also when it goes to auction. Sure Linden could forgo the auction L$, put the LDPW in to make 8 x 4096 Mainland 2.0 for $US176 month tier. Which is $US10 per month more than the $US166 standard mainland tier. The $120 minus the L$ auction price given the rarity of whole mainland regions being abandoned and the quite low additional return of $10 month (assuming full occupancy at all times) vs LDPW doing nothing, then I can't see it as a ongoing project for Linden to do Edited January 14 by elleevelyn typo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 59 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said: What percentage of people who get a Linden Home in Bellesseria do you think actually read the covenant? What percentage of people taking your Mainland 2.0 regions do you think would read and follow a covenant for it? Do you think LL has enough Moles or Lindens to monitor all these new regions to make sure no one has low hanging skyboxes or walls over 10 m high? They can't even fully monitor rotaing signs or Adult content on Moderate or General land now. They will always have to depend on other residents policing and reporting their neighbors, which would be less likely to happen in scattered regions than on distinct residential continents such as Bellisseria. Let me suggest another version of Mainland 2.0. What if LL were to complete Corsica IV by adding a river and adjacent protected Linden land, then continuing the continent with regions that allow commerce, but forbid skyboxes below 2000 m or walls higher than 5 meters? These regions should have Linden roads, and should allow the buying and selling of parcels 256 square meters or greater. No rotating signs. All regions to be Moderate land. This would be a small experiment in more restricted mainland, so see how popular it might be. In keeping with the more adult side of SL theme for 2024, I think they might also complete the Zendra continent and add a Bellisseria-style Adult residential continent, accessible from Zendra. Violations of the covenant on mainland 2.0 will be dealt with the same way as on Belli. Nosey neighbors with nothing better to do will file AR’s on the miscreants. There will never be adult Belli homes because LL doesnt want the responsibility for what goes on there. So it seems we are in agreement on creating mainland 2.0, the only difference is in the details. Being able to buy and sell mainland 2.0 does nothing to eliminate the problem of land flippers. The advantage of my version is you get the land free from LL and immediatly owe tier on it, and when you tire if it, you return it to LL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 11 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: Violations of the covenant on mainland 2.0 will be dealt with the same way as on Belli. Nosey neighbors with nothing better to do will file AR’s on the miscreants. There will never be adult Belli homes because LL doesnt want the responsibility for what goes on there. And because this is adult mainland 2.0, those ARs will get treated like mainland and not like Bellisseria. A covenant requires LL to take a higher degree of responsiveness when it comes to ARs or it will be just like OG mainland after a while and if LL don't want "to take responsibility for adult Bellisseria" then they'll not want to take it for adult mainland 2.0 either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: And because this is adult mainland 2.0, those ARs will get treated like mainland and not like Bellisseria. A covenant requires LL to take a higher degree of responsiveness when it comes to ARs or it will be just like OG mainland after a while and if LL don't want "to take responsibility for adult Bellisseria" then they'll not want to take it for adult mainland 2.0 either. I never said Mainland 2.0 needs to be adult. LL will never operate adult homes, there will never be adult Belli homes, either on Belli , or on zindra. So does Belli just keep getting bigger and bigger while mainland gets emptier and emptier? Mainland 2.0 offers an entirely new way of aquiring land, one that eliminates the need for landflippers, as well as eliminating the more annoying aspects of regular mainland. But oh no, that's never been done, so it simply can't be done. When LL decides mainland is too big, too empty and too much of a drain, they WILL start eliminating sims, and too bad for that person who has one parcel on an otherwise empty sim. Edited January 14 by BilliJo Aldrin added stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: So does Belli just keep getting bigger and bigger while mainland gets emptier and emptier? Mainland 2.0 offers an entirely new way of aquiring land, one that eliminates the need for landflippers, as well as eliminating the more annoying aspects of regular mainland. But oh no, that's never been done, so it simply can't be done. When LL decides mainland is too big, too empty and too much of a drain, they WILL start eliminating sims, and too bad for that person who has one parcel on an otherwise empty sim. I don't know the answer to that and I never implied or said that something cannot be done. I'm just pointing out the issues with what you said in the part I quoted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: This nails it. QFT. After he attacks people on the forums and they respond he's "being bullied" and the thread he chose to reply to was created to harass him. He also implied I created an entire SL Wiki page of bogus information about a fake city to market real estate, and enlisted other land owners in the area in some giant conspiracy... He also said, earlier in this thread, that he's filed multiple ARs over purchase, development, and resale of abandoned land. Is there a way to just not see anything someone posts here? hover over a persons name, and choose "ignore". it will open a page where you can choose exactly what to ignore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I think the land flipping aspect is key though. In Bellisseria every single home that has been claimed represents at least a Premium account but on mainland that isn't anywhere close to being true. If LL are printing so many regions of Bellisseria homes, unless they've completely taken leave of their senses, they must have a reasonable assumption that demand is there which in turn means more Premium accounts. If people are moving out of mainland, it cannot be assumed they are currently only going to Bellisseria though. They could be going to estates, leaving SL entirely, no longer want or simply cannot afford land right now. We must be careful not to make too many assumptions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: I don't know the answer to that and I never implied or said that something cannot be done. I'm just pointing out the issues with what you said in the part I quoted. No matter what anyone suggests, there are always someone that will say it can't be done. But until its actually tried, we will never know. LL could designate exactly ONE sim as mainland 2.0, set it up as I suggest, and see the response. I believe that the 8 4096's would be snapped up within minutes of being offered, and people in the forums would be asking for more and more. We should ask @Patch Linden what he thinks of such a scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said: No matter what anyone suggests, there are always someone that will say it can't be done. But until its actually tried, we will never know. LL could designate exactly ONE sim as mainland 2.0, set it up as I suggest, and see the response. I believe that the 8 4096's would be snapped up within minutes of being offered, and people in the forums would be asking for more and more. We should ask @Patch Linden what he thinks of such a scheme Conversely people often think they have all the answers when they don't have all the information to them and don't present a consistent idea. The problems don't come with one or two regions, it comes at scale. Rule enforcement is exactly an at scale problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: Conversely people often think they have all the answers when they don't have all the information to them and don't present a consistent idea. The problems don't come with one or two regions, it comes at scale. Rule enforcement is exactly an at scale problem. I never said I had all the answers, I was simply offering a suggestion for a new product that I think will be well received by that percentage of the population that don't want the retirement community of Belli, OR the anarchy of mainland. As for rules, they will be enforced the way they are always enforced, with AR's. I don't suggest LL hires an army of moles to drive around Mainland 2.0 looking for covenant violators. Edited January 14 by BilliJo Aldrin added stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Going to be funny when all.the mainland regions AROUND that 2.0 region have low hanging sky crap and full-bright privacy walls. 😂 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said: Or that's just one point of view, which while you are entitled to hold it, but isn't necessarily fact. Bellisseria has the advantage that land flippers cannot affect availability and yet while there is high ownership overall, just like with mainland there are relatively low numbers of people using it at any one time. If people want special "privacy" features, they would be going to the estates - not Bellisseria which has the most lax privacy overall. I'm curious, what are these "special" privacy features that estates have that mainland and Belli doesnt have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: As for rules, they will be enforced the way they are always enforced, with AR's. The majority of mainland ARs are ignored, LL simply doesn't have the resources for it. You can tell this from the blatant violations of what rules we do have that go permanently unaddressed. LL doesn't even have the resources for Bellisseria now as evidenced from the violations that exist there as well, however they are far more reactive there than they are on mainland. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Lioncourt Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 19 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: hover over a persons name, and choose "ignore". it will open a page where you can choose exactly what to ignore. Thank you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: I'm curious, what are these "special" privacy features that estates have that mainland and Belli doesnt have? You'd have to ask Qie what he meant as I was only referring to what he wrote. All I know is that Bellisseria sure doesn't have any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Going to be funny when all.the mainland regions AROUND that 2.0 region have low hanging sky crap and full-bright privacy walls. 😂 LL would have to put in as much effort as with Bellisseria at least or it wouldn't be limited to around the edges either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 13 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: The problems don't come with one or two regions, it comes at scale. Rule enforcement is exactly an at scale problem. I think it is more that the rule enforcement is hidden instead of broadcast that such and such rules were enforced here or there. That is what makes people think twice about breaking the rules. If the RL news never mentioned anyone going to jail or fined for infractions, everyone would think the laws were toothless, how much more so here with the various rule infractions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: I think it is more that the rule enforcement is hidden instead of broadcast that such and such rules were enforced here or there. That is what makes people think twice about breaking the rules. If the RL news never mentioned anyone going to jail or fined for infractions, everyone would think the laws were toothless, how much more so here with the various rule infractions? I note sure about that. Deterrents don't really work in RL or SL. We used to have the police blotter and sending people to the cornfield but it never stopped people breaking the rules. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said: I note sure about that. Deterrents don't really work in RL or SL. We used to have the police blotter and sending people to the cornfield but it never stopped people breaking the rules. No but the question would be whether it is lessened because a percentage of the population will think twice about the ramifications of an infraction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said: No but the question would be whether it is lessened because a percentage of the population will think twice about the ramifications of an infraction. LL clearly didn't think it was worth continuing with them so perhaps that's the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: 5 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said: If people want special "privacy" features, they would be going to the estates - not Bellisseria which has the most lax privacy overall. I'm curious, what are these "special" privacy features that estates have that mainland and Belli doesnt have? Comparing Belli and estates and not mainland. You can't have your Belli set to group only or put up a zero second orb. You CAN do that on mainland and any estate I've lived on allowed both also. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 18 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: Comparing Belli and estates and not mainland. You can't have your Belli set to group only or put up a zero second orb. You CAN do that on mainland and any estate I've lived on allowed both also. OIC, its not that estates and mainland have special privacy features, its that Belli doesn't permit what can be done on estates and mainland, just two more reasons for never getting a Belli house 😂 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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