Stop Free Memeberships?

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

dont worry there is a new feature coming that will pique your interest: “physically based rendering”. it will make your second life look so much more realistic it will make you want to be here 24/7, and go super premium too.

Unfortunatly for every person wowed and drawn in deeper, another will fall off the back end because their older computers wont be able to keep up.

Plus its been suggested a lot of older content will be broken.

Oooops, my bad you were talking about needing new features to keep the forums interesting, not in world 😬

 

People come to the forums to find out how the new features work or when they are coming...if any. I don't expect PBR to interest that many other then a small minority. The mobile viewer would be of more interest to the majority then PBR. Other then that, new features are haphazard at best with little rhyme or reason to it making the life of the casual resident any easier.

2 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

The vast majority of Second Life users never touch the official forums to begin with.

Well more then a few drop by and  all the bots of course don't need to know and are a fair percentage of that "vast". Though less Residents are logging into the forums, there are still quite a few just perusing as guests https://community.secondlife.com/online/ but those are dropping too as there is less interesting content here to read. Remember too that the onus is on the community to give new residents the help they need to navigate this world as the Lab itself has very little in the way of that sort of thing. The Forum has still been a go to place for residents to get more in depth information to this world.

[Arielle Popstar]

48 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I didn't say it did. You completely missed the point. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you over it. You might like arguing all the time, I do not.

You said the idea punishes those who can't afford the lowest premium so I am looking for clarification as to how you see that, not arguing.

Quote

It punishes those who can't afford even the lowest premium. 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

People come to the forums to find out how the new features work or when they are coming...if any. I don't expect PBR to interest that many other then a small minority. The mobile viewer would be of more interest to the majority then PBR. Other then that, new features are haphazard at best with little rhyme or reason to it making the life of the casual resident any easier.

Well more then a few drop by and  all the bots of course don't need to know and are a fair percentage of that "vast". Though less Residents are logging into the forums, there are still quite a few just perusing as guests https://community.secondlife.com/online/ but those are dropping too as there is less interesting content here to read. Remember too that the onus is on the community to give new residents the help they need to navigate this world as the Lab itself has very little in the way of that sort of thing. The Forum has still been a go to place for residents to get more in depth information to this world.

PBR will interest a lot of people when they find out Second Life is unplayable because their computers can’t handle the latest shiny new thing

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

PBR will interest a lot of people when they find out Second Life is unplayable because their computers can’t handle the latest shiny new thing

I would suspect it isn't going to come to that.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

30 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I would suspect it isn't going to come to that.

how many prople have advanced lighting and shadows turned off because their computer crawls when they are turned on.

PRB is fine if you can turn it off, if not, it will be doom for many people

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
typo

[AmeliaJ08]

20 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

PRB is fine if you can turn it off, if not, it will be doom for many people

You know I'm not sure if you can. You definitely can't disable advanced lighting model in the PBR viewers so I assume not.

It's fine though, people don't have to use these viewers. It's time to move forward! So long as some huge vulnerability isn't discovered or I assume these pre-PBR viewers will still be able to log in won't they? I mean, as long as the server is compatible with them and AFAIK nothing is going to change there.

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

27 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

You know I'm not sure if you can. You definitely can't disable advanced lighting model in the PBR viewers so I assume not.

It's fine though, people don't have to use these viewers. It's time to move forward! So long as some huge vulnerability isn't discovered or I assume these pre-PBR viewers will still be able to log in won't they? I mean, as long as the server is compatible with them and AFAIK nothing is going to change there.

 

 

so once PBR is a thing in firestorm, i'm stuck with all of it including advanced lighting?

There's absolutely no consideration for those that don't have the latest and greatest computers.

Some of us don't need to be able to ask the question is is real life or second life, we are happy with adequate graphics.

And LL wonders why it constantly loses its customer base

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Some of us don't need to be able to ask the question is is real life or second life, we are happy with adequate graphics.

Technically, actual PBR *is* "antiquated", as it dates back to before 2010, everywhere else but SL, haha.

SL's proposed watered down PBR implementation isn't that exciting, but does mean "ALM=always On", but don't panic, your 2003 era no-ALM 512x512 resolution flat, matte, "Classic prim build" textures will still be flat, matte, and 512x512, and I'd be surprised if the PBR viewer didn't have a "shadows off" button in the preferences.

Let the Futureness fans drool if they want, 95% of SL won't actually look much different for at least 5-10 years.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Technically, actual PBR *is* "antiquated", as it dates back to before 2010, everywhere else but SL, haha.

SL's proposed watered down PBR implementation isn't that exciting, but does mean "ALM=always On", but don't panic, your 2003 era no-ALM 512x512 resolution flat, matte, "Classic prim build" textures will still be flat, matte, and 512x512, and I'd be surprised if the PBR viewer didn't have a "shadows off" button in the preferences.

Let the Futureness fans drool if they want, 95% of SL won't actually look much different for at least 5-10 years.

 

Well, that's good to know, I already have my graphics dialed down as low as they can go.

At least I still look marvelous though, even if the rest of you are grey jellies  😂

 

[Rowan Amore]

That explains a lot.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That explains a lot.

But Lumiya!!1!!

[Rowan Amore]

Might as well log in with Speedlight.

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Technically, actual PBR *is* "antiquated", as it dates back to before 2010, everywhere else but SL, haha.

SL's proposed watered down PBR implementation isn't that exciting, but does mean "ALM=always On", but don't panic, your 2003 era no-ALM 512x512 resolution flat, matte, "Classic prim build" textures will still be flat, matte, and 512x512, and I'd be surprised if the PBR viewer didn't have a "shadows off" button in the preferences.

Let the Futureness fans drool if they want, 95% of SL won't actually look much different for at least 5-10 years.

 

Yay! Second Life is Future-Proof!

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Might as well log in with Speedlight.

That may be the only option soon for those with sad graphics, since SL Mobile won't run on their "flip phones"..

[BilliJo Aldrin]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Might as well log in with Speedlight.

ah yes, i feel the distain.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said:

ah yes, i feel the distain.

Is that "de-stain", as in "stain removal"?

Or, "disdain"?  I'm guessing it's that.

It can be hard to rememeber how words are speled.

[AmeliaJ08]

52 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Well, that's good to know, I already have my graphics dialed down as low as they can go.

At least I still look marvelous though, even if the rest of you are grey jellies  😂

 

I mean... we can't go on forever like this. You're running settings that would be weird on a computer from a decade ago let alone now.

I understand not everyone wants to do the whole gamer thing and upgrade often spending thousands each time etc, I'm not that either but... there has to be progression, there has to be improvements.

You'll still be able to log in and view the world as you're familiar with it on old hardware, you won't be able to use the latest versions of Firestorm I accept since they will eventually exclude the non-PBR/ALM forced viewer but... I suspect that policy itself might be subject to change, perhaps some Long Term Support version of the non-PBR viewer would be necessary for the needs of people like yourself. Who knows!

SL needs to keep moving forward to stand any chance of attracting new users, there's no way around it and it's a very visual world, it's painfully out of date in many ways already so relatively little things like modern materials rendering support is desperately needed.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

11 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I mean... we can't go on forever like this. You're running settings that would be weird on a computer from a decade ago let alone now.

I understand not everyone wants to do the whole gamer thing and upgrade often spending thousands each time etc, I'm not that either but... there has to be progression, there has to be improvements.

You'll still be able to log in and view the world as you're familiar with it on old hardware, you won't be able to use the latest versions of Firestorm I accept since they will eventually exclude the non-PBR/ALM forced viewer but... I suspect that policy itself might be subject to change, perhaps some Long Term Support version of the non-PBR viewer would be necessary for the needs of people like yourself. Who knows!

SL needs to keep moving forward to stand any chance of attracting new users, there's no way around it and it's a very visual world, it's painfully out of date in many ways already so relatively little things like modern materials rendering support is desperately needed.

 

Second life will never be able to compete with, or look as good as  "games" because games are all preloaded.

The people LL wants to attract with the latest shiny are the very people that would have zero interest in Second Life.

We watched zuckerguy blow billions on his metaverse, which no one was interested in, and was where SL was when it started, but of course he  excuses his failure by saying the world isn't ready for the metaverse, ignoring that we have been here for a generation

You do what you gotta, my computer was new about 8 years ago, with a nvidea 705 graphics card, not great even then, but adequate. Eventually the fan in the card failed and the card would overheat and the computer shut down, so i dialed down my settings and blew two fans over the card. This worked for a long time, but then the card started overheating again, so i dialed everything right down to the settings I use today.

It works ok, the computer only shuts down a couple of times a month due to the overheating card.

Thing is, the computer is fine for everything else, and as long as I can log in with what I have, I'll just muddle along.

I just hate being forced to upgrade, because Firestorm has the 3 version rule and sooner or later I'll be forced out unless I get a new computer.

So, I log in, play dressup, hang out with my friends, build a little, and I'm happy. I don't need the latest marvelous gotta have new thing.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

54 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

it's painfully out of date in many ways already so relatively little things like modern materials rendering support is desperately needed.

Is it?

ALM/Materials were introduced in what? 2014? NINE YEARS AGO.

And many people STILL don't/won't use them, there's even a TPV dev/power user, who rails against ALM, because they think flat, matte, 2003 style rendering with "true AA" must always look better than "modern" rendering with normal maps and specular effects.

If the take-up on PBR is even HALF as bad as ALM/Materials then you are looking at 5 years before you'll see any significant amount of PBR friendly content, and 95% + of SL won't be PBR, and there will still be people whining that "there's too much shiny, things looked better in flat matte 512 resolution".

Adding PBR to a current AAA title game works because ALL the content is MADE for PBR, so it all looks "PBR Futureness Goodness of LEET GRaphics (tm)". Realistically, SL NEVER will.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

57 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

my computer was new about 8 years ago, with a nvidea 705 graphics card

it would probably handle a 2nd hand 1030 with not too much trouble, and those are fairly cheap, and make a huge difference over a 7x0 series card.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus
damn typo in the card series

[BilliJo Aldrin]

13 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

it would probably handle a 2nd hand 19030 with not too much trouble, and those are fairly cheap, and make a huge difference over a 7x0 series card.

I'll look into it, thank you.

[Arielle Popstar]

47 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I just hate being forced to upgrade, because Firestorm has the 3 version rule and sooner or later I'll be forced out unless I get a new computer.

So, I log in, play dressup, hang out with my friends, build a little, and I'm happy. I don't need the latest marvelous gotta have new thing.

Well its none of my business but it really sounds like an objection to upgrading out of principle more than affordability. I find better video cards in the trash then what you are using.

Having said that though I would wish the Lab would allow a  setting where people could use Draw Distance for not only the environment but also the avatars in the scene so I can load just those within a 5 or 10 meter range for example rather then having to reduce the complexity setting to some low value because its loading all of them. Those gray avatars still affect the framerate.

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

It works ok, the computer only shuts down a couple of times a month due to the overheating card.

That's basically a textbook definition of, "Not working okay."

[Rowan Amore]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well its none of my business but it really sounds like an objection to upgrading out of principle more than affordability. I find better video cards in the trash then what you are using.

Having said that though I would wish the Lab would allow a  setting where people could use Draw Distance for not only the environment but also the avatars in the scene so I can load just those within a 5 or 10 meter range for example rather then having to reduce the complexity setting to some low value because its loading all of them. Those gray avatars still affect the framerate.

Have you tried using the performance floater?

https://beqsother.blogspot.com/2022/03/how-to-use-new-firestorm-performance.html

[Blaise Glendevon]

And we're back to the problem of people who assume they'll be able to run the viewer on the Antikythera mechanism again. . .