Ban lines - a proposal

[BillFletcher]

if it was up to me there would be no ban lines. In RL people put up no trespassing signs so the people cannot enter their property to steal or break their stuff, or do some stupid thing get hurt and sue the property owner. None of that can happen in SL. 99.9% of the time the ban line just creates a nuisance for someone minding their own business and is protecting the privacy of someone who isn't even logged on.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, BillFletcher said:

In RL people put up no trespassing signs

And fences! And walls! And locks on the doors!

Second Life doesn't have any of that. Just security "devices" and bans..

Well, SL has "doors that lock" but you can still cam inside, etc. etc.

[Casidy Silvercloud]

21 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Just curious what issues they cause on the average estate?

The same problems they would cause any land they're on. They don't just stop misbehaving because it's an estate. 

 

21 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Are people driving vehicles around those?

Sometimes, yes. I've been to many estates that have public access that have things like vehicles, horses, bikes, hot air balloons, etc. that can be used to traverse the land. Those aren't just restricted to mainland. Not all estates are just properties where people rent homes and stuff. There are even groupings of estates that form one continuous form of land where people can travel between them. Even avatars can get stuck and smacked in the face by banlines though, you don't have to be in a vehicle for them to be a problem. I got stuck in one the other day when I hit it and I was just out running. I hit the perfect storm of both a sim crossing and banlines. It took off my hair and eyeballs as it caught me like a fish in a net, lmao, and crashed me. It sucks not seeing them in advance. I wouldn't have crossed the sims there if I had seen them before I got right to it. 

 

21 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

They do ruin the looks though, especially when an estate is parceled as efficiently as possible.

How do they ruin the look if you can't even see them until you come right up to them? I do understand people thinking those yellow lines are ugly when you get right up on them. I don't agree they're ugly, but from a distance they absolutely do not ruin a view.  If they could be seen from a further distance, I might understand, but they can't be. They don't show up until you're close, which is part of why they present so many problems. People can't see them in time to stop, change trajectory or just move over even in some cases. This is why people have made different kinds of huds for travelers. They often map where security and banlines can be found because the inworld indications are often far too late. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Casidy Silvercloud

[BillFletcher]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

SL has "doors that lock" but you can still cam inside,

If they could find a way to fix this so you cant do this, while eliminating the ban lines altogether that might be a good plan, Though I have cammed in and sat plenty of times and I would miss it if that was taken away

[Silent Mistwalker]

There are quite a few people in SL who have no desire to share their land with everyone else in SL. LL allows them to share it with select people or keep it all to themselves. It's not for anyone else to decide. 

In RL if you (general) come on my property and something happens to you, I can be held liable. I have the right to say no.

[Sid Nagy]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

And fences! And walls! And locks on the doors!

Second Life doesn't have any of that. Just security "devices" and bans..

Well, SL has "doors that lock" but you can still cam inside, etc. etc.

But nobody can steal your stuff, make stains on the carpets or spray graffiti on your walls.
Ban lines don't stop the possibility to cam inside either.

[animats]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Well, SL has "doors that lock" but you can still cam inside, etc. etc.

You should not be allowed to sit while camming if there is not line of sight between avatar and sit target. Then you couldn't cam and sit through a locked door.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, animats said:

You should not be allowed to sit while camming if there is not line of sight between avatar and sit target. Then you couldn't cam and sit through a locked door.

Forgot about cam-sitting. I'm such an Angel!

[Gabriele Graves]

[AmeliaJ08]

13 minutes ago, Casidy Silvercloud said:

but from a distance they absolutely do not ruin a view.

Think of the average parcelled up estate though, you're never more than a few meters from your neighbours so you do see them if they're right next to you.

[AmeliaJ08]

4 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Yeah jeeze what have I done, I promise I didn't mean to.

[AmeliaJ08]

12 minutes ago, BillFletcher said:

If they could find a way to fix this so you cant do this, while eliminating the ban lines altogether that might be a good plan, Though I have cammed in and sat plenty of times and I would miss it if that was taken away

Yes I too have been naughty sometimes but 99.99% of the time I do that it's because I've become trapped somewhere (usually under rocks or someone's beach) and it saves me

[PheebyKatz]

I dislike that roads have no shoulder, so if you go even a little bit wonky on a sim crossing you could end up bumping into a property line and end up instantly teleported home with your vehicle poofing. And of course the mini-map only shows those parcels as red after I've been banned from them. For bumping into them while driving across a sim corner.

Also, people who set security orbs to give people 5 seconds to get out are just doing that to be poop heads. Even flying, I can't turn around and get out that fast. And the notification takes a second to see and that takes even more of the time up.

Jerks.

Still not as bad as the lady who came out of her house and harrassed me every time I showed up at the rezz zone, though.

Edited August 10, 2023 by PheebyKatz

[Sid Nagy]

What I don't get: People find land next to roads more desirable than land further inside.
And once they have such property, they go all out because sometimes a car drives a few inches over their parcel every now and then.
The above is just an observation because we can discuss this from now until next Christmas, ban lines are there and there are people who love them so nothing much will change.

[AmeliaJ08]

1 minute ago, Sid Nagy said:

What I don't get: People find land next to roads more desirable than land further inside.
And once they have such property, they go all out because sometimes a car drives a few inches over their parcel every now and then.
The above is just an observation because we can discuss this from now until next Christmas, ban lines are there and there are people who love them so nothing much will change.

I like a road so I can have a driveway and a gate and it doesn't look weird 😂

 

I really am just playing virtual barbie dolls here though.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

LL will be introducing easements on all mainland Soon(™).

[Casidy Silvercloud]

1 minute ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Think of the average parcelled up estate though, you're never more than a few meters from your neighbours so you do see them if they're right next to you.

A parceled up estate is where I ran into them. I was running in some town that has multiple sims and ran from a park into what apparently was someone's yard. They didn't appear until right when I hit them. If they had appeared even 3m from where they were, I would've seen them and stopped running. 

I've rented in plenty of places where people have them. Usually the only thing right on or near parcel boundaries would be fences, surrounds and landscaping, people don't tend to stand right there on the boundary. Unless I was really close to the parcel boundaries (2m or less), they did not appear. They have never ruined my view of anywhere else on a sim. So unless that has changed, and my experience since coming back suggests it hasn't, they still can't ruin a view from one parcel to the next. The excuse that they somehow ruin the view from one parcel to the next is a bit silly, because they really don't.

The excuse that they can cause people problems when they encounter them though, is very valid, because they can and they do. That's why I say the only visual problem they really present is that people can't see them fast enough to avoid them. Visually, they're far less of a problem than they are functionally. 

[Gabriele Graves]

3 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

And once they have such property, they go all out because sometimes a car drives a few inches over their parcel every now and then.

I used to have a parcel of land in Bay City next to the road.  The automated buses there run by a resident used to pass by every 20 mins or so and due to lag would leave the road and come barrelling through my house.  Things in SL can always be worse.

[BillFletcher]

23 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

bumping into a property line and end up instantly teleported home with your vehicle poofing

I had this happen after driving across several sims from the rez place. I couldn't start over where it happened I had to go back to the rez location and redrive the whole distance.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I'm not really sure where to put this so settled on General Discussion, admins please move if you think it's better placed elsewhere.

I was thinking about banlines yesterday. It seems to me that banlines are probably the best way of keeping SL land secure/access only - they only extend approx 100M 50M into the air too, ideal for ground level properties etc.

Unfortunately they've got a bad reputation for a simple reason: they're ugly. People don't like to see them. Given this I wanted to ask: why are they even visible by default?

It seems to be if banlines were invisible (and you would still bounce off them/receive a notification window saying you're not allowed access to the parcel) they would be a lot more tolerable and just better than they are. People are using security orbs to replace banline functionality in areas where banlines are restricted due to the visual impact. They also use security orbs to protect airspace above parcels too of course (unfortunately) but for those who aren't the security orb with all of its various disadvantages like annoying pilots, adding script load etc. could be replaced by banlines if they were only invisible.

I just think more wide use of them might make SL a little more user friendly for everybody, vehicles etc merely bounce off banlines for example.

How do other people feel about this?

 

I always have ban lines turned off, but on the other hand, i always have property lines turned on.

People constantly whine about ban lines, but in fact  one is required to have ban lines turned in if one plans to engage in any adult activities if their property is on a moderate sim.

I would think, if people followed the rules, 90% of mainland property would have ban lines turned on.

[PheebyKatz]

9 minutes ago, BillFletcher said:

I had this happen after driving across several sims from the rez place. I couldn't start over where it happened I had to go back to the rez location and redrive the whole distance.

Being stubborn as a rock, I've got a landmark in my favorites that starts with a tiny rez zone right next to a parcel I'm already banned from for bumping into, and the roadway extends across what seems like a hundred regions without a single rezz zone. It's tagged, "Loooooooooong drive, NO rezz zones".

It's full of places that have hair-trigger security, too.

I landmarked it for when I feel like a real challenge, and need to conquer something. I've never made it all the way across. It's sure taught me a lot, though.

Edited August 10, 2023 by PheebyKatz

[Fionalein]

5 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I would think, if people followed the rules, 90% of mainland property would have ban lines turned on.

THAT!

[BilliJo Aldrin]

54 minutes ago, animats said:

You should not be allowed to sit while camming if there is not line of sight between avatar and sit target. Then you couldn't cam and sit through a locked door.

cam sit is the easiest way to get around in places that have a designated landing spot. I go to  a club but the landing spot is 50 m from the dance floor? Cam a guest, look for a nearby chair, and sit on it. Much better than walking 😂

Edited August 10, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
added an “a”

[AmeliaJ08]

13 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I always have ban lines turned off, but on the other hand, i always have property lines turned on.

People constantly whine about ban lines, but in fact  one is required to have ban lines turned in if one plans to engage in any adult activities if their property is on a moderate sim.

I would think, if people followed the rules, 90% of mainland property would have ban lines turned on.

That is a very good point actually.

 

How do private etstates rated moderate yet restricting use of ban lines manage this rule actually? Technically are they being a little naughty or do they get special treatment?

I guess it is maybe just placed on users to know technically they shouldn't be doing anything adult?

Edited August 10, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Fionalein]

2 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

That is a very good point actually.

 

How do private etstates rated moderate yet restricting use of ban lines manage this rule actually? Technically are they being a little naughty or do they get special treatment?

I guess it is maybe just placed on users to know technically they shouldn't be doing anything adult?

I doubt it's special treatment. It's just nobody bothers to AR them...