Regarding shapes "copyright"

[Hyperplexed]

Since there is no other adequate category specifically about shapes, and because shapes can be in some context considered animation (or more accurately, bone manipulation), I'm posting this thread in here. Apologies if not the right place.

So my question is simple... Can shapes have a "copyright"? It is just a bunch of values, that can even be exported and re-imported as an XML file, which not only makes it easy to recreate whichever shape you want, with full perms, as long as you own it, but I see really no point in even having a shape that is no-mod. But I digress... 

The reason for this post, is not because I want to "steal" someone else's shape and then sell it as a standalone product. It is because I want to have a HUD slider deformer, that will work best with some specific body settings. So, in an effort to make life easier for those users that have very little knowledge or don't pay much attention to detail, my goal was to provide some shape templates, using the head settings of some very well known head brand, to have them as a starting point... Goal is just to have the same body proportions, for each specific head the user might use, to make their life simpler, because more often than not, I see some ppl using shapes that make the body or the head look weird. Pretty innocuous right?

Out of politeness, I decided to contact a specific well-known head brand, and color me shocked, when contacting a "CSR", and explaining the situation, telling me that I would have to at least change a single digit on each one of the slider on their shapes, in order to do that. And just as a reminder, the body settings would always be different, and my own, so, it would not be the same shape either. And my product would not be the shape either... So does that mean they own that specific slider value??? I could care less if ppl re-use those shapes, because that will not be in any way, the product (just as the shape that comes with said head brand, was, to quote the CSR, a "starting point"). This also opens the question further, because the appearance XML, exports not only the shape sliders, but also a bunch of other crap, even textures. So, would I also need to "change a single digit" in other settings too? I find all this, quite honestly, all a bit idiotic, and that is to put it mildly and in a polite manner...

While I can respect the assessment of the situation of this particular "CSR", I find it a bit odd to say the least, but I will abide to it unless I have some evidence that this decision has no foundation on anything other than ignorance perhaps? Is there any concrete documentation regarding this particular issue?

Thanks in advance, to any and all input!

[Chic Aeon]

As far as I know you cannot "copyright" shapes as there are only so many possibilities (recipes are the same).   Actually you pretty much can't "copyright" anything in SL because the costs would be prohibitive for the amount of income,.  (I think that fellow LOOOOONG ago that made the sex beds etc did copyright and I think he won but that is a whole 'nother story)  . 

 

The BETTER ANSWER is to go from the head slider numbers and DO change a few things (honestly in my mind most of the default head shapes are pretty awful and I would never keep them anyway) and then make your body shapes .  That way the issue is no longer an issue.  There are usually only a few slider shapes per head (each head seems to be different) that will mess up things for people.   

 

That's my thoughts anyway.  I did sell shapes for awhile both here and on other grids.   I always started from scratch though :D.

[Persephone Emerald]

I don't think anyone can copyright a shape in SL, though you'll get less grief if you change the faces for a shapes a little from those in the mesh head creator's ads.

Most people like to be able to modify their shapes in SL, but some fear messing up a shape they've bought. A good solution to this issue is to include both a Copy/ Mod / No Transfer version of the shape and a Copy/ No Mod/ No Transfer version of the same shape. People could write down the numbers from your Modifiable version to make a similar one that they could sell or give away, but they probably won't do this except to make another shape for themself or an alt. For instance, they might buy a new mesh head, but they want to keep the same body shape.

[Hunny Bunny]

15 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

As far as I know you cannot "copyright" shapes as there are only so many possibilities

I counted something like 79 sliders. With each slider having a value from 1 to 100 it is literally so many possibilities. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Hunny Bunny
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[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Hunny Bunny said:

I counted something like 79 sliders. With each slider having a value from 1 to 100 it is literally so many possibilities. 

The point legally as I understand it is that since the number of possibilities IS FINITE one cannot prove that anything was stolen.  :D.  

[Sabrina Tamerlane]

I have recently changed the head and body of one of my alts and I was shocked to see that when I have edited her shape that the old one and the new one would share a lot of common values.... That said I think you should edit the shapes because they are not so great and there is room for improvement, it will add value to your product.

[Alwin Alcott]

17 hours ago, Hyperplexed said:

Since there is no other adequate category specifically about shapes, and because shapes can be in some context considered animation (

how about the avatar section? ( for me it's more about looks as animation)

[Extrude Ragu]

the west is too obsessed with copyright/individualism, it leads to daft discussions like this one

[QuietEventide]

On 7/21/2023 at 4:38 PM, Extrude Ragu said:

the west is too obsessed with copyright/individualism, it leads to daft discussions like this one

Yes - the "copyright" obsession has gone too far.
Copyright uncertainty has ruined lots of options for cover bands in the music industry too (I know from experience).
It's too much hassle for next to no reward (for the little person).

Back in the day of cassettes, the big music labels used to print "Home Taping Is Killing Music" on covers. If you read up on what the Larrikin Music label did to Greg Ham (from the Australian band Men at Work) for example - you will find an absolutely horrendous example of mis-using "copyright" laws. Rest in peace Greg, it's a great song and some of us will never forget what they did to you.

[Robotshaz]

I think it would be hard to tell if a shape was copied  unless someone uses the same image showing the shape too. After all to make a shape you are just playing with the sliders and editing numbers. So i'd find it difficult to tell if someone had stolen a shape off someone else.