No More Free Lunch

[SabrinaCooke]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes but not for the reasons you were thinking.

Please don't assume that you know what I was thinking.

[Silent Mistwalker]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Let's discuss whether segregating free accounts from paid accounts might motivate more to purchase Premium.

It won't. What it will do is cause people who have been in SL for 15 plus years to leave permanently which results in a loss of income for LL. A loss that won't be chump change.

[Arielle Popstar]

51 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

They did actually.  You don't sign up for payment info on file or no payment info on file, but you do for accounts.

"such a shame would be world shattering and would elicit a substantial boost from free to paid account signups"

Might that not result in reduced land costs if they were getting more money from premium accounts?

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, SabrinaCooke said:

Please don't assume that you know what I was thinking.

I didn't, I went by what you said.

[EliseAnne85]

4 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

M'kay ...

So the usual from one poster and now another diving deeply into the conspiracy/paranoia hole ...

It is exactly what it appears to be on the surface as anyone who has bothered to pay attention over the years could tell you - no "social engineering" or any such BS happening here. Stop it.

You have no proof of that.

And, so I did some research.  It does appear there is a link between trolls and scammers/hackers.  This IS the internet.  Don't give out information.  Copy and pasting some from the blog below:  

 

 

__________________________________________________________________

https://usa.kaspersky.com/blog/avoiding-scams-and-trolls-on-twitter/2002/

Beware trending topics. Twitter created the concept of ‘trending’ topics, and hashtags are the Twitter medium for labeling content to increase its popularity. But beware, because whether it’s the latest celebrity buzz or a major tragedy in the news, the line between trolling and scamming can blur when these trending topics are hijacked by Twitter users who tease to content that masquerades as relevant to the trending topic, but instead includes a link that leads to offensive or harmful web pages. Trolls are particularly effective at doing this because their posts during sensitive times inflame readers —tweets mocking victims of school shootings, for instance — and by outraging people can entice them to click through to bad content.

Don’t trust URL shorteners. Related to the trending topic warning, trolls and scammers use URL shorteners like bit.ly because they disguise the ultimate endpoint of the shortened link. If a tweet has a shortened URL and isn’t coming from a reputable source, don’t click through — if it’s legitimate content, you’ll see it elsewhere on Twitter and be able to read it there.

[SabrinaCooke]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

I didn't, I went by what you said.

Oh, trust that I backspaced quite a bit on my posts before submitting them, so no, you really don't know what I was thinking, so please refrain from making assumptions. 

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It won't. What it will do is cause people who have been in SL for 15 plus years to leave permanently which results in a loss of income for LL. A loss that won't be chump change.

So many for so many years have sworn they would leave SL if the lab did this or that and when it came down to the crux, many stayed regardless. 

[Ceka Cianci]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Might that not result in reduced land costs if they were getting more money from premium accounts?

I was responding about the accounts  being mentioned in the OP, that  they were talking about memberships vs free accounts..

Whatever else you guys were talking about, I didn't bother to react to.. I'm not really in this thread for the long haul , just the occasional irritating and silly drive by..

[Love Zhaoying]

29 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Here's what I'm gonna do.

Find a controversial post that the majority are against.  Post on the side of the controversial post.  Defend that post with anything I've got in hopes that the mods will.lock the thread.  

Anyone have a link to a white knight costume on the MP.

Pssst...called it didn't I @Love Zhaoying?

Yeah, but I never saw an Ebil White Knight before!

[Ceka Cianci]

18 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So many for so many years have sworn they would leave SL if the lab did this or that and when it came down to the crux, many stayed regardless. 

Ya, but still, some are gonna..We know some are gonna stay that said they weren't and some of them will go.. But then you have those that never came to the forums and some of them are gonna stay and some are gonna go..

The problem is, Some are gonna go from both categories, as well as not as many are gonna even give it a try, because it's not free to join anymore..

One of the best things this old platform has as far as new people even giving it a try is, it doesn't cost a penny to try.. that's what  will set the final nail in the coffin.

ETA: Also, this just came to mind that will flush the final nail.. Now everyone would have to pay for all their alts.. How fast will the numbers drop then?

ETA2: And Bot accounts having to get paid for.. I'm just gonna stop there before it's just us here in the forums left.. hehehe

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Ya, but still, some are gonna..We know some are gonna stay that said they weren't and some of them will go.. But then you have those that never came to the forums and some of them are gonna stay and some are gonna go..

The problem is, Some are gonna go from both categories, as well as not as many are gonna even give it a try, because it's not free to join anymore..

One of the best things this old platform has as far as new people even giving it a try is, it doesn't cost a penny to try.. that's what  will set the final nail in the coffin.

 

Though the OP did not flesh out a whole plan for how to institute such a segregation, I think there would be a likelihood that if it were to come to pass, they would do it by grandfathering existing accounts to the present level and only allow it to affect newer accounts. Perhaps new features may require a paid subscription like for example the mobile viewer in the works. I am suspicious that what they did with Speedlight and Premium ++ accounts might well be what they do with their own upcoming mobile offering.

[Persephone Emerald]

39 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

 

https://usa.kaspersky.com/blog/avoiding-scams-and-trolls-on-twitter/2002/

Beware trending topics. Twitter created the concept of ‘trending’ topics, and hashtags are the Twitter medium for labeling content to increase its popularity. But beware, because whether it’s the latest celebrity buzz or a major tragedy in the news, the line between trolling and scamming can blur when these trending topics are hijacked by Twitter users who tease to content that masquerades as relevant to the trending topic, but instead includes a link that leads to offensive or harmful web pages. Trolls are particularly effective at doing this because their posts during sensitive times inflame readers —tweets mocking victims of school shootings, for instance — and by outraging people can entice them to click through to bad content.

Don’t trust URL shorteners. Related to the trending topic warning, trolls and scammers use URL shorteners like bit.ly because they disguise the ultimate endpoint of the shortened link. If a tweet has a shortened URL and isn’t coming from a reputable source, don’t click through — if it’s legitimate content, you’ll see it elsewhere on Twitter and be able to read it there.

This is talking about not clicking on strange links. Most of us already know this.

Bothering to to make alts to befriend people inworld would take much more effort & would likely not be worth the trouble to scammers. They just join groups and post links in group chat instead. They don't have to cast their net wide enough to get the more savvy people, because enough people will click the link that says it's for Marketplace, a free gift or whatever. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Persephone Emerald
typos

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Though the OP did not flesh out a whole plan for how to institute such a segregation, I think there would be a likelihood that if it were to come to pass, they would do it by grandfathering existing accounts to the present level and only allow it to affect newer accounts. Perhaps new features may require a paid subscription like for example the mobile viewer in the works. I am suspicious that what they did with Speedlight and Premium ++ accounts might well be what they do with their own upcoming mobile offering.

Ah so you wanna dance huh?

That does it, it's a dance off! \o/

 

[EliseAnne85]

40 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Let's discuss whether segregating free accounts from paid accounts might motivate more to purchase Premium.

Hmmmm, well, what you wrote above sounds a bit like something California wants to do by July of next year and that's separate 18+ accounts from minor accounts.  If one cannot prove they are18+, they will default to a restricted minors account.  

This Act that has passed and been signed by the Governor of California could create some kind of segregation.  The thing is we don't know yet what this Act will create nor how it will work nor even which websites it will or won't involve.  It's all speculating right now until further information.

But, if region owners want 18+ people in order to get rid of the minors problem getting on SL and rid the problem out of their hands, people with a restricted minors account might be in for a rude awakening, we just don't know yet.  

I don't know what to say about it really nor how this 18+ and non 18+ thing is going to work.  It's too early yet.

But, there is no need for segregation between adults in SL as it is now other than to avoid bots or possibly griefers.  The bot issue has another way now though other than having to check PIOF or 18+ only.  

Edited May 19, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Silent Mistwalker]

28 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

So many for so many years have sworn they would leave SL if the lab did this or that and when it came down to the crux, many stayed regardless. 

Many more actually have left. 

Hope you don't hurt your back reaching so hard.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Persephone Emerald]

13 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Though the OP did not flesh out a whole plan for how to institute such a segregation, I think there would be a likelihood that if it were to come to pass, they would do it by grandfathering existing accounts to the present level and only allow it to affect newer accounts. Perhaps new features may require a paid subscription like for example the mobile viewer in the works. I am suspicious that what they did with Speedlight and Premium ++ accounts might well be what they do with their own upcoming mobile offering.

Linden Lab is not going to do anything that makes it harder to join SL. Let's get this straight. The folks at the top have said they see 2 main revenue streams - land ownership (which includes Premium membership as a first step) and transaction fees (buying lindens, paying for mesh uploads, paying the "tax" for selling stuff on MP, etc.)  Most of these transaction fees are paid by non-Premium users just as much as they're paid by Premium users, so LL gets their money either way. And as has been said a dozen times at least already, non-Premium members support the SL economy, which in turn allows creators and land managers to pay their tier and Premium membership fees. Second Life is one of the few virtual worlds that has a truly thriving economy, and LL is not going to jeopardize that.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Rowan Amore]

Social apartheid.  What could go wrong?

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Many more actually have left. 

Hope you don't hurt you back reaching so hard.

Sure many have left for a variety of reasons but one thing I'll point out is that many stayed because they were invested here. Something my mother pointed out years ago when she was teaching was that people do not value what they don't have to pay for. Retention figures would go up I think if new accounts were more motivated to invest in the platform in some ways.

[Silent Mistwalker]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

Sure many have left for a variety of reasons but one thing I'll point out is that many stayed because they were invested here. Something my mother pointed out years ago when she was teaching was that people do not value what they don't have to pay for. Retention figures would go up I think if new accounts were more motivated to invest in the platform in some ways.

Both you and your mother are wrong. That is privilege speaking, not someone who has actually had to do without.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

Both you and your mother are wrong. That is privilege speaking, not someone who has actually had to do without.

Oh trust me, they have done without as have I. Hope you didn't hurt your back reaching so hard.

[EliseAnne85]

12 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

This is talking about not clicking on strange links. Most of us already know this.

Bothering to to make alts and befriend people inworld would take much more effort & would likely to be worth the trouble tp scammers. They just join groups and post links in there instead. They don't have to cst their net wide enough to get the more savvy people because enough will click the link that says it's for Marketplace, a free gift or whatever. 

You mean links that don't start with http etc?  Yeah, I've read those are best to steer clear of altogether.

However, I'm sure the entire blog wasn't only talking about no http links.  It said "harmful web pages".  If you look up what harmful web pages are, they are something that will download on your computer and can begin hacking you and that happens just by clicking.  It happened to my family.  We got lucky as I called my ex right after he had been hacked when the message came through to everyone on his contact list.  Then, I called my bank and they told me what to do and not do.

I don't want to get into a long discussion about it but I just realized that some trolls may not be what they seem to be.  They could be scammers as many seem to get some kind of personal information that is really better left off the internet.  

Better safe than sorry is all I'm sayin'.  

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Oh trust me, they have done without as have I. Hope you didn't hurt your back reaching so hard.

I'm sure you know all about clawing your way back from being jobless and homeless. Something I have had to do and may have to do again in my old age.

🙄

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

That does it, it's a dance off! \o/

Starlord did it better, but he was just emulating his hero, Kevin Bacon.

I think the topic should be past its last dance.

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Linden Lab is not going to do anything that makes it harder to join SL. Let's get this straight. The folks at the top have said they see 2 main revenue streams - land ownership (which includes Premium membership as a first step) and transaction fees (buying lindens, paying for mesh uploads, paying the "tax" for selling stuff on MP, etc.)  Most of these transaction fees are paid by non-Premium users just as much as they're paid by Premium users, so LL get their money either way. And as has been said a dozen times at least already, non-Premium members support the SL economy, which in turn allows creators and land managers to pay their tier and Premium membership fees. Second Life is one of the few virtual worlds that has a truly thriving economy, and LL is not going to jeopardize that.

But have you noticed they don't make it any easier either? Either way, it is not free accounts S/L is interested in but rather ones that invest something. I think in some ways it is why the Lab doesn't institute things that would make it easier and lessen the learning curve. They want people who become invested in the platform rather then come one come all and enjoy the free food and content.

[Marigold Devin]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Then why did you . . .

Oh, never mind. At this point, Arielle, it's like your just firing wildly into the air in the hope that a stray bullet drops somewhere where it does damage.

I think this community has made it pretty clear that we are about being inclusive, and tolerant. And I like everyone here the better for it.

Enjoy your solitary little bubble, wherever it may be, Arielle.

And this about sums up why the original post triggered my reaction. Second Life, as far as I was aware, was created by someone who believed in inclusivity, and others who have subsequently been at the helm have attempted to continue that way. 

When the Linden homes regions were built and they added in premium-only sandboxes, that was a good idea from the point of view of preventing griefers, who tended to have disposable accounts, and as a non-premium member I knew I still could enjoy plenty of other sandboxes around the grid. 

As a non-premium member I am allowed to drive and walk around the Linden home regions, and that's great if I am visiting with premium friends. They don't make me feel like the poor relation any more than friends I have in real life who live in more expensive private accommodation than I do. 

To even suggest some kind of system whereby free accounts are treated as some kind of lesser species as the OP does, using "free loaders" - and that is an offensive term, so no wonder so many people are triggered by it - goes against what most of us were led to believe Second Life was all about.

And let's not forget, while there are people who make real life money by running businesses in Second Life, for most of us it is recreation, escapism from our real lives. How very dare anyone suggest some of us aren't good enough to enjoy all Second Life has to offer because we choose not to sign up for regular monthly/quarterly/annual payments to be taken from our bank accounts.