What can a user do against an abusive/unfair CG?

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

As these gateways are approved by LL, they should be held to a different standard than the run of the mill private estate.  These places are a first impression some people have of SL and one would think THAT would matter to LL.

I take this to mean, indirectly, if someone is banned from a Community Gateway then ummm, "bless their heart".

[hinaichigo Xaris]

19 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

one of the problems wtih people that think themselves that they are banned without reason, is often ( not always!) that there actually ís a reason for the ban, but comfortabely forgotten or not mentioned by the one that comes ask for action against the banning place.
I am not saying you belong to that last group of people, but the counter party doesn't come here to explain. We have only a half story to go on.
All responders should take this in mind.

Oh, I should explain something more, this didn't happened to me, it's a hypothetical case, I am on the opposite side, I am a CG member. so... you could think of my question as "Can users do something against me?"  

Don't worry, I am a good person, I like to help users, that's why I am askig about this.

Edited March 28, 2023 by hinaichigo Xaris

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, hinaichigo Xaris said:

Oh, I should explain something more, this didn't happened to me, it's a hypothetical case, I am on the opposite side, I am a CG member. so... you could think of my question as "Can users do something against me?"  

Don't worry, I am a good person, I like to help users, that's why I am askig about this.

May I humbly suggest that you take additional CG training, ASAP?

[Lindal Kidd]

8 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Perhaps an AI powered NPC chatbot is the answer. It won't unfairly ban people. It won't have power trips. It can't feel pain. It absolutely will not stop. 

You trying to put me out of a job, Bree? It's bad enough that about 2/3 of the newbies I encounter already think I'm a bot, now you want the actual bots to take over?

But that last part, about "It absolutely will not stop" gives me some darkly funny mental images of robot helpers that relentlessly follow newcomers, continuing to offer helpful suggestions no matter what.

[hinaichigo Xaris]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

May I humbly suggest that you take additional CG training, ASAP?

Do you know any good school for it?

I already spoked about this topic with other CG members before posting here, and it seems like there is no info about it, nothing on the rules, nothing on the wiki... it seems like this is the first time someone asks about it.

For now I think the best idea is to open an abuse report, like @Rowan Amore said.

[Akane Nacht]

5 hours ago, Livi Pixelbottom said:

They can decide anyone with a name starting with the letter A can't be allowed in

we are a rowdy bunch

[Livi Evergarden]

16 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

As these gateways are approved by LL, they should be held to a different standard than the run of the mill private estate.  These places are a first impression some people have of SL and one would think THAT would matter to LL.

Very true. And that is also the case at the end of the day. One well known newcomer place lost their privilege of being a Gateway on those grounds. But that comes down to multiple cases, not because, and I quote myself, "someone is banned from somewhere"

[Qie Niangao]

14 minutes ago, Livi Pixelbottom said:

One well known newcomer place lost their privilege of being a Gateway on those grounds.

I don't know anything about the backstory here, and I may not even be thinking of the right place (although if I am, they somehow got to retain a grid-scope Experience out of the deal, which in the right hands could be a lot more useful than a dumb gateway—but I digress).

It seems to me that the threat of the Lab revoking an organization's privilege to run a Gateway, and all the negative sentiment that comes with that, would be enough to motivate the organization's management to take complaints very seriously, possibly more seriously than the Lab does. So it may be more effective to go to that management first, rather than starting with an abuse report.

Nobody should take this as advice; I'm only speculating.

For that matter, it could all depend on the organization and its target audience. Some may cater specifically to people who seek pain and torment.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

30 minutes ago, Livi Pixelbottom said:

One well known newcomer place lost their privilege of being a Gateway on those grounds.

I don't know anything about the backstory here, and I may not even be thinking of the right place (although if I am, they somehow got to retain a grid-scope Experience out of the deal, which in the right hands could be a lot more useful than a dumb gateway—but I digress).

It seems to me that the threat of the Lab revoking an organization's privilege to run a Gateway, and all the negative sentiment that comes with that, would be enough to motivate the organization's management to take complaints very seriously, possibly more seriously than the Lab does. So it may be more effective to go to that management first, rather than starting with an abuse report.

..if you can't run your Community Gateway such that you avoid getting "abuse reported" and shut down, then perhaps you're not doing it right.  

(Or perhaps you let the animals (griffers) run the zoo, so to speak.)

[Bree Giffen]

No derail intended. Just fyi on what I said previously. 

On topic, I don’t think every helper is bad at community gateways or new resident help areas. What the OP experienced may not be common. But, an AI bot might help and be consistently good. 

[Livi Evergarden]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

It seems to me that the threat of the Lab revoking an organization's privilege to run a Gateway, and all the negative sentiment that comes with that, would be enough to motivate the organization's management to take complaints very seriously, possibly more seriously than the Lab does

This.

[Caeruleiae]

This topic is a bit confusing. At first I thought you or someone you know was unfairly removed banned or treated at a gateway based on things that are against tos like racism and bigotry- and whether there was any recourse for them. If it's against tos by the way there is recourse. 

You later specified that you are the one that others may have a problem with as you are the cg volunteer and not the other side of the coin. Why do you want to know if people have any recourse should you decide to break tos and treat them unfairly? Do you intend to do so-or have you already and now you're concerned someone might hold you accountable? If you're worried about whether other users can do anything against you-it would suggest you've already done something wrong they would need to. If you treat others right this would not be of concern. That would be why you've not seen others ask-they are not worried because they do what's right. There is no need to ask whether or not you can get in trouble for doing something if you don't do whatever it is that might get you in trouble. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Caeruleiae said:

This topic is a bit confusing. At first I thought you or someone you know was unfairly removed banned or treated at a gateway based on things that are against tos like racism and bigotry- and whether there was any recourse for them. If it's against tos by the way there is recourse. 

You later specified that you are the one that others may have a problem with as you are the cg volunteer and not the other side of the coin. Why do you want to know if people have any recourse should you decide to break tos and treat them unfairly? Do you intend to do so-or have you already and now you're concerned someone might hold you accountable? If you're worried about whether other users can do anything against you-it would suggest you've already done something wrong they would need to. If you treat others right this would not be of concern. That would be why you've not seen others ask-they are not worried because they do what's right. There is no need to ask whether or not you can get in trouble for doing something if you don't do whatever it is that might get you in trouble. 

Well said!

If you did nothing wrong, there's nothing to worry about. If you or anyone get banned from a CG even though they did nothing wrong, there's nothing you or they can do about it. If you or they had a reason to be banned, then just learn from it and move on.

[Perrie Juran]

On 3/26/2023 at 10:24 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

i think the answer is not a more active policing by LL -- except in some circumstances (such as clear and egregious violations of the ToS and CS, as you say) -- but rather better tools that empower the consumer / renter.

Right now there is literally nothing you can do if you are ripped off by someone. Mostly, SL merchants and landlords are pretty good, I think, but there is a very clear power imbalance here.

When I first asked why it was unfortunate my brain had jumped to interpersonal disputes, not business disputes which are a problem.