The bot war is over and the bot farmers have won :-(

[Solar Legion]

Second Life is not Facebook, the two do not exist for the same purposes nor do they present even remotely similar data. A Second Life avatar is not a real person despite having one behind the screen - there is no need to go to such lengths in keeping one's profile hidden.

Furthermore there is nothing whatsoever preventing the listing of one's Facebook Profile within a search engine's results. You choose what is displayed to the general public. Something which was possible with the absolute abomination that was the Second Life Web Profile system - a system which should not ever have been put into production.

If you want a Facebook experience, go use it.

[Solar Legion]

Edit

Edited March 28, 2023 by Solar Legion
Not worth the hassle to respond directly to bait/the usual suspects

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

Second Life is not Facebook, the two do not exist for the same purposes nor do they present even remotely similar data. A Second Life avatar is not a real person despite having one behind the screen - there is no need to go to such lengths in keeping one's profile hidden.

Furthermore there is nothing whatsoever preventing the listing of one's Facebook Profile within a search engine's results. You choose what is displayed to the general public. Something which was possible with the absolute abomination that was the Second Life Web Profile system - a system which should not ever have been put into production.

If you want a Facebook experience, go use it.

That is far from being the case, plenty of residents have way more reason to hide their S/L Profile data than they have of hiding their facebook profiles. This should be obvious to anyone who actually reads some of the profiles out there. There are quite a few who use S/L to come out of a closet that they cannot come out of in R/L and yet S/L allows bots to gather that data and publish in the general public eye, not just the S/L public.

[Quistess Alpha]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

There are quite a few who use S/L to come out of a closet that they cannot come out of in R/L and yet S/L allows bots to gather that data and publish in the general public eye, not just the S/L public.

"coming out" on a platform that doesn't directly link to your RL is completely different than coming out on a platform that actively tries to ensure (I'm not saying it succeeds) that every account corresponds to a specific RL identity.

[Solar Legion]

That's nice.

Unless they're actively putting data into their profiles to link their Second Life account to their RL self, they have no reason to worry. At all.

Outside of dedicated stalkers or bored children (this includes supposed adults that have the same sort of mentality) no one on the wider web is going to take the time to make a Second Life account just to harass/hassle/belittle such people.

The worst that can happen is that someone finds their profile, puts it on a blog (or some other website) and disparages the avatar.

The opinions of people who would do such a thing are worth less than nothing and should get only enough attention to see what they've done, shrug one's shoulders and move on. If it gets worse, see what options one can pursue (not many in the case of it being limited to an avatar within Second Life).

As for the potential targets? Many are already taking the steps they need to, to keep their Second Life from being paired to their Real Life self - as many would have had to do in the first place in order to use Second Life in the manner described!

The current situation hasn't changed anything whatsoever in regard to such outside of making it clear that anyone at all could have gotten that profile data. Anyone at all could have been (and could actually be) using said data surreptitiously this entire time, for any purpose whatsoever.

Data that is useless by itself. Data that requires one to have linked it themself or to have had some unhinged type go and do it (been there, done that, rolled my eyes and batted the people away).

Next?

Edited March 28, 2023 by Solar Legion

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, Quistess Alpha said:

"coming out" on a platform that doesn't directly link to your RL is completely different than coming out on a platform that actively tries to ensure (I'm not saying it succeeds) that every account corresponds to a specific RL identity.

Tila and S/L have mine and a lot of other residents r/l data on file. Small step from obtaining that to also find out what we all been up to through public exposure of the profile data. Don't they say that the only companies that haven't been hacked are the ones that don't know they been hacked?

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Tila and S/L have mine and a lot of other residents r/l data on file.

^^ this

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

public exposure of the profile data.

Is not this ^^^

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

That's nice.

Unless they're actively putting data into their profiles to link their Second Life account to their RL self, they have no reason to worry. At all.

Outside of dedicated stalkers or bored children (this includes supposed adults that have the same sort of mentality) no one on the wider web is going to take the time to make a Second Life account just to harass/hassle/belittle such people.

The worst that can happen is that someone finds their profile, puts it on a blog (or some other website) and disparages the avatar.

The opinions of people who would do such a thing are worth less than nothing and should get only enough attention to see what they've done, shrug one's shoulders and move on. If it gets worse, see what options one can pursue (not many in the case of it being limited to an avatar within Second Life).

As for the potential targets? Many are already taking the steps they need to, to keep their Second Life from being paired to their Real Life self - as many would have had to do in the first place in order to use Second Life in the manner described!

The current situation hasn't changed anything whatsoever in regard to such outside of making it clear that anyone at all could have gotten that profile data. Anyone at all could have been (and could actually be) using said data surreptitiously this entire time, for any purpose whatsoever.

Data that is useless by itself. Data that requires one to have linked it themself or to have had some unhinged type go and do it (been there, done that, rolled my eyes and batted the person away).

Next?

So we should all just rely on a form of security through obscurity? Surely you know better then that!

Next

[Solar Legion]

Ah yes, the usual tactic and why i do not often bother engaging: attempts to frame what I have very clearly stated as being something else.

I stated exactly what I meant to state in my responses, nothing more and nothing less. If you're actually being sincere in looking for a discussion, try harder and veer away form such foolishness in the future.

[Rowan Amore]

36 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

sense of security

Security of what?  There is NO personal information in your profile that could directly link back to AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING unless you, yourself, put it there.  

[Solar Legion]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

^^ this

Is not this ^^^

About the normal conflation for some.

If the Tilia data is ever hacked, there would need to be a compelling reason to then go after and compile the avatar/profile data together with external sources - a rabbit hole that does indeed drive some to overcompensate when it comes to how they view security and tends to make some start to jump at shadows.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Security of what?  There is NO personal information in your profile that could directly link back to AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING unless you, yourself, put it there.  

It's almost as if they put something in their profile to be ashamed of. Sad.

[Ceka Cianci]

Peeks in the room

 

Just checking! \o/

 

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Ah yes, the usual tactic and why i do not often bother engaging: attempts to frame what I have very clearly stated as being something else.

I stated exactly what I meant to state in my responses, nothing more and nothing less. If you're actually being sincere in looking for a discussion, try harder and veer away form such foolishness in the future.

Your whole argument rests on the hope that potential griefers/stalkers/hackers couldn't be bothered. The lengths some have gone to do so in past counters your opinions. This whole searchable database that was created just makes this child's play for those so inclined. State whatever and laugh all you want but your arguments are nothing more then smoke and mirrors based on hope and wishes.

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Your whole argument rests on the hope that potential griefers/stalkers/hackers couldn't be bothered. The lengths some have gone to do so in past counters your opinions. This whole searchable database that was created just makes this child's play for those so inclined. State whatever and laugh all you want but your arguments are nothing more then smoke and mirrors based on hope and wishes.

I'm curious for my own self what the searchable database is, Because I like to search those myself to see if anything of mine shows up.. I do my best to keep my SL and RL separated, so if there is something out there that I'm not aware of, I'd really like to know..

If you have a link that you could link  for me that would be great.

[Istelathis]

11 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Peeks in the room

 

Just checking! \o/

 

There is never a wrong time for cat pics

 

[Arielle Popstar]

25 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Security of what?  There is NO personal information in your profile that could directly link back to AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING unless you, yourself, put it there.  

Ok and? People do need to be protected from themselves at time because we are not all as smart as you and the other fan devotees. Didn't you state somewhere that you are a reader of profiles? You must have come across profiles where they showed r/l pictures of themselves (searchable through Google) as well as other personally identifiable information which was intended for a Secondlife audience only.

32 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It's almost as if they put something in their profile to be ashamed of. Sad.

Bet it is all those ones who state their r/l is private and not a reflection of their S/L. Some use their avatar as an extension of their r/l and some use it as a roleplay that has no reflection on their lives. Profiles often do not state which it is and could well be misunderstood in the wrong context.

[Solar Legion]

My arguments are rooted in reality - what has been put forward thus far to "counter" them has been rooted in hyperbole at best.

No one's actual private details were exposed. Beginning and end.

An actual bad actor is not going to publish their data in such a public manner. Beginning and end.

You are in control of how much data you place into your very public profile. Don't want it out there? Don't put it in there.

My whole argument rests in what can/has actually happened as well as just how tempting a target a Second Life user is going to be. Here's a hint for you: You ought to be more worried about your financial data and being phished.

Do not put data out there you do not want conflated with your RL self if you do not want it linked to your Second Life avatar. If someone manages to work it out anyway ... Well they have no way of knowing if they really have, now do they?

In any event, just as I thought: No actual desire for any sort of actual discourse. Just shadow puppets, boogeymen and the usual dose of rampant distrustfulness disguised as genuine concern.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Solar Legion

[EliseAnne85]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Tila and S/L have mine and a lot of other residents r/l data on file. Small step from obtaining that to also find out what we all been up to through public exposure of the profile data. Don't they say that the only companies that haven't been hacked are the ones that don't know they been hacked?

When Tilia, which is so darned hard for some of us to spell (I even forgot how to spell it, but I think it's Tilia with an extra i) but anyhow when Tilia was first created it was said to have been written with some of the best code ever and look at who came aboard - JPM, one of the most loved/hated hedge funds in the world.  However, JPM, I don't think would have jumped at being involved with an exchange that could easily be hacked.  Tilia is said to have been superiorly coded.  

We have to have some faith here, albeit nothing we do on the internet is 100% guaranteed safe.  My experience overall with the internet has been a good.  My ex, however, was hacked twice.  Once a credit card which his bank fortunately reversed the charges.  The other a social engineering scheme that created a mess of a hell.  

But, what bots will be able to do in the future and how social media sites and virtual worlds will protect themselves against these things is 'I don't know'. 

But, I'd prefer threads about bots to remain open for discussion on SL forum so we know we at least have a level playing field.  But, other people need to remember some of us are not geeks.  Many of us are artists.  We don't know everything about everything created for SL nor how to use everything to protect our own space from intrusion or from bots that may disturb the peace.  

Edited March 28, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm curious for my own self what the searchable database is, Because I like to search those myself to see if anything of mine shows up.. I do my best to keep my SL and RL separated, so if there is something out there that I'm not aware of, I'd really like to know..

If you have a link that you could link  for me that would be great.

Aww you missed it. The link was removed for residents so they can no longer see what is being harvested about them though nothing was stated that the database was no longer being maintained. Since the same bots are still scraping data, I think it is safe to assume it is still there and being worked on but maybe only accessible to those who pay?

Edited March 28, 2023 by Arielle Popstar
spelling

[Ceka Cianci]

12 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Aww you missed it. The link was removed for residents so they can no longer see what is being harvested about them though nothing was stated that the database was no longer being maintained. Sincer the sam bots are still scraping data, I think it is safe to assume it is still there and being worked on but maybe only accessible to those who pay?

Oh it's still about the one place? I thought there might have been another place..

I'm not worried about that one.. they're only getting SL stuff in that one.. I heard hackers and something-N-other and was like, did I miss something? hehehe

If it's just SL stuff. Those putting stuff in their profiles either didn't read the privacy policy or they did and don't care if their RL things are connected..

If you read it they tell you not to give away anything that you aren't willing let get passed around pretty much.. That they can only protect what you are willing to keep privte or unlinked.

My father would say to me, do you want me to smoke it for you too?  hehehe

Edited March 28, 2023 by Ceka Cianci
changed linked to unlinked at the end.

[Arielle Popstar]

26 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

My arguments are rooted in reality - what has been put forward thus far to "counter" them has been rooted in hyperbole at best.

No one's actual private details were exposed. Beginning and end.

An actual bad actor is not going to publish their data in such a public manner. Beginning and end.

You are in control of how much data you place into your very public profile. Don't want it out there? Don't put it in there.

My whole argument rests in what can/has actually happened as well as just how tempting a target a Second Life user is going to be. Here's a hint for you: You ought to be more worried about your financial data and being phished.

Do not put data out there you do not want conflated with your RL self if you do not want it linked to your Second Life avatar. If someone manages to work it out anyway ... Well they have no way of knowing if they really have, now do they?

In any event, just as I thought: No actual desire for any sort of actual discourse. Just shadow puppets, boogeymen and the usual dose of rampant distrustfulness disguised as genuine concern.

Spin it whatever way you want Solar, long and short is that the Lab was not up front with this, tried to hide it and is now going give minimal protection for those who own land and are with it enough to utilize it. It was a disappointing response. Maybe we'll get lucky and they will offer increased personal protection from bots as part of Premium + or Premium ++.

[Solar Legion]

The long and short of this is that it was blown out of proportion by several users, continues to be blown out of proportion and being used to once more foster distrust (among other things).

That is the reality of this.

Newsflash for you: Scripted Agents (which have been around for as long as the Viewer has been Open Source, likely even before that) have been doing varied functions for quite some time. Some above board, others not so much.

This one rattled a few people.

This one is not the operation one ought to be concerned about. Scripted Agents properly marked as such ... are not what users ought to be concerned about.

The ones that are not marked ... Are the concern. No, there is no way to identify them (not without catching actual users as collateral - something I'm personally unwilling to have happen). Those types have been around just as long.

There is a reason for the warning concerning one's profile and putting personal information within it. Welcome to part of that reason.

Advice has been given by more than just myself here. Advice and what should be a common sense approach. Take it or leave it but stop trying to solve a delicate problem with a nuclear device.

[Rowan Amore]

56 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

You must have come across profiles where they showed r/l pictures of themselves (searchable through Google) as well as other personally identifiable information which was intended for a Secondlife audience only.

And this is why I stated previously that the only thing LL should do is warn newcomers that any info they CHOOSE to put on their profile is viewable to everyone anywhere.  If one is not wise enough to understand personal safety, perhaps the internet isn't a place they should be let alone SL.

[Solar Legion]

To go back to something from an earlier post of mine ...

I have had people attempt to figure out who I am behind my Avatar. One runs a Blog (and did so to enforce some laughable policy of theirs). Two were from a third party Forum (now long gone, sadly). The first made me roll my eyes. The other two? I laughed as they were doing so in an effort to try and get me to back down/quiet down because they did not like my responses. Both of those latter two were banned (from a place known not to do so unless absolutely necessary).

Of those three, two are still active here - despite only ever so thinly veiling their tactics when engaging with others. Imagine that! Small wonder I have my information set up the way I do, isn't it?

All of them employ similar "debate tactics" as I've seen a handful use for this particular issue to stir the pot and foment distrust at the minimum.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Solar Legion