TOS... for Griefing...

[Rowan Amore]

It's been happening since sex furniture was invented.  Unless someone is new so they don't understand what can happen, people should use common sense when parking their avatar on couple's furniture.  Only took me one time, early on, to learn that valuable lesson.  Yes, people are a**hats and it's disgusting behavior but...easily preventable.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Yes, people are a**hats and it's disgusting behavior but...easily preventable.

It is.

But accidentally forgetting to lock your door, and being burgled, doesn't make you the villain, and it certainly doesn't absolve the thief of guilt. If your neighbour's house was robbed, would you focus on berating them instead of acknowledging that an actual crime had been committed?

The post in question completely lacks any perspective -- not to mention empathy and generosity. 

[EliseAnne85]

13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It is.

But accidentally forgetting to lock your door, and being burgled, doesn't make you the villain, and it certainly doesn't absolve the thief of guilt. If your neighbour's house was robbed, would you focus on berating them instead of acknowledging that an actual crime had been committed?

The post in question completely lacks any perspective -- not to mention empathy and generosity. 

It startles the person for sure, but bleephats will be bleephats.  

My real life sister was attacked, she suffered nightmares for nine years plus then adding some drinking to the situation which caused depression.  SL pose menus and women being attacked in real life are not the same.  I cannot go there, knowing what my real life sister suffered from a real physical attack by a man about 6 to 8 times stronger than her.  She was a small woman.  It's not the same.  I just cannot go there with you on this one.

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It is.

But accidentally forgetting to lock your door, and being burgled, doesn't make you the villain, and it certainly doesn't absolve the thief of guilt. If your neighbour's house was robbed, would you focus on berating them instead of acknowledging that an actual crime had been committed?

The post in question completely lacks any perspective -- not to mention empathy and generosity. 

I, personally, did not call the victim a villain.  However, this is one issue totally preventable if one simply stands or ground sits when going AFK.  There will ALWAYS be horrible people in SL and out.  Act accordingly.

 

 

[Caeruleiae]

56 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

If these people were doing what you seem to be hinting they were doing, then, no, it's not "the same" as "the real thing." Of course not. And it might not, depending upon circumstances, even be ARable.

But the people who did this to her avatar are nonetheless appalling and ugly human beings. And it might be nice if you at least acknowledged that, rather than reserving all your ire for the victim in this case.

It's an afk sex beach-she literally got what the place is for. Reserve your anger for where necessary.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I, personally, did not call the victim a villain.  However, this is one issue totally preventable if one simply stands or ground sits when going AFK.  There will ALWAYS be horrible people in SL and out.  Act accordingly.

 

 

Sorry, Rowan. I didn't mean to sound snappish at you: I was sort of elaborating my point using your post as a jumping-off point, because you were alluding to the other.

My apologies!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Caeruleiae said:

It's an afk sex beach-she literally got what the place is for. Reserve your anger for where necessary.

Well, she clearly didn't, or she wouldn't have been upset. Was she sitting in an AFK bed? Was it clear that she was "available" for that? Or does the mere fact that it was an AFK place provide justification enough, because clearly it's open season on any and all women at an AFK beach? Does AFK sex include the right to circulate pictures of someone clearly intended to cause distress?

Yeah, sorry. Not convinced.

Edited March 17, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

SL pose menus and women being attacked in real life are not the same.

Of course not. I said as much in my previous post.

But sexual harassment needn't involve physical contact. You can be sexually harassed in RL by email. And the fact that it's "not as bad" or "different from" RL sexual assault doesn't make it acceptable.

2 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

bleephats will be bleephats

I refuse to tolerate "bleephats" merely because "there will always be bleephats."

[Caeruleiae]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, she clearly didn't, or she wouldn't have been upset. Was she sitting in an AFK bed? Was it clear that she was "available" for that? Or does the mere fact that it was an AFK place provide justification enough, because clearly it's open season on any and all women at an AFK beach? Does AFK sex include the right to circulate pictures of someone clearly intended to cause distress?

Yeah, sorry. Not convinced.

Yes-all the furniture and all the spaces at that place are specifically for that purpose. Using those pieces of furniture and stuff is exactly what it's for-afk sex. The pictures weren't distributed to anyone but her-also something they apparently do there a lot as apparently people like taking pictures of pixels going at it. There was no intended distress causing-at all. They didn't do it to taunt her or grief her. They did what everyone that goes there does and expects to see. She parked herself at an afk sex spot on the furniture-with signs-then got mad that the people there used it as an afk sex spot.  

You don't have to be convinced-I'm not trying to convince you. But do you think what happened to her should be treated as if it were a real sexual assault?  Because that's what she did in the group-and went absolutely nuts doing it. So did the people who defended her and were encouraging her to do all kinds of things to-get back at them-for what I don't understand. Do you understand the difference between it happening somewhere else and happening somewhere that it's expected? They did nothing wrong but she took zero responsibility for her part in the events taking place there. This isn't just some random land with random furniture that happens to have adult animations. If it was-I would totally agree with you.  She could've easily just stood there afk-or gone somewhere else while afk. The choice of putting herself on furniture that others will absolutely expect to use with her changes the whole scenario.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Caeruleiae said:

But do you think what happened to her should be treated as if it were a real sexual assault?

I have said it should not, twice now.

Was this place clearly marked as AFK? Was there a reasonable expectation that she should know how sitting and going AFK would be read by others? Was there a reasonable justification to assume that that is what she intended?

What I'm getting at is that AFK doesn't mean "without consent."

There's also a whole lot of pretty pertinent information here that was missing from your initial account.

[Caeruleiae]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Was this place clearly marked as AFK? Was there a reasonable expectation that she should know how sitting and going AFK would be read by others? Was there a reasonable justification to assume that that is what she intended?

Yes-I said that already-even in the post you replied to I said there are signs. It's exactly what the place is for-it's what's expected from and of people that sit on the furniture. It's very clear that's what it's for.

14 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

What I'm getting at is that AFK doesn't mean "without consent."

Using the furniture at all with proper signs telling you what it is and what the spot is for-is giving consent. Being afk by itself isn't giving consent-that's why I said if it happened somewhere else I would agree with you. There is a big difference between any furniture at any place and furniture at an afk sex place. Context matters. 

 

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There's also a whole lot of pretty pertinent information here that was missing from your initial account

There is a whole lot missing from the op's too. Yet everyone assumed it was completely truthful. People automatically assumed it was some kind of heinous assault-it may not have actually been. It's a good example of why jumping to conclusions and feeling outrage without information is a bad idea. That's exactly what I-and everyone else there-saw in the group today and it got extremely ugly.  People did the same thing- they assumed the person in the chat was in the right-even after being told what really happened and where a few still stuck by that.  

[Zero Starchild]

It absolutely astounds me how someone can be upset about anything that has to do with cartoon avatars. I am usually a furry. A furry skunk and I get alot of attacks and abuse but I find it amusing. Ground sit or move lock or leave or block and derender. It is all there to use. I find most griefers hilarious, entertaining and absolutely annoying but that is part of the thrill of SL. The wild, wild west. You can bet that more than once someone has derendered your clothing and had a great moment looking at your naked avatar while AFK. 

I was once included in a griefing video by a character named Britbong on Youtube. TBH I loved it. It was funny, yes humiliating but only if I took it seriously lol. Just sit back in your chair and watch the griefing until it becomes tiresome and then TP away. You cannot be physically hurt or harmed.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Caeruleiae said:

Yes-I said that already-even in the post you replied to I said there are signs. It's exactly what the place is for-it's what's expected from and of people that sit on the furniture. It's very clear that's what it's for.

Using the furniture at all with proper signs telling you what it is and what the spot is for-is giving consent. Being afk by itself isn't giving consent-that's why I said if it happened somewhere else I would agree with you. There is a big difference between any furniture at any place and furniture at an afk sex place. Context matters.

I am honestly puzzled how, if the setup and layout is as clearly defined as you suggest, not merely this woman, but apparently also others should so profoundly misunderstand the nature and function of this place. Either there were a number of very confused people there -- were they noobs, maybe? or were they not there themselves? -- or there is some information missing from this account.

In any case, there's no point in pursuing it further.

I will happily concede (as in fact I always have) that representations of things in SL are not "the same" as the actual things in RL. Which is not the same thing as suggesting that what happens to our avatars, including negative experiences such as harassment and such, doesn't affect us emotionally. If they didn't, we wouldn't be here in the first place.

2 hours ago, Caeruleiae said:

There is a whole lot missing from the op's too. Yet everyone assumed it was completely truthful. People automatically assumed it was some kind of heinous assault-it may not have actually been.

I'm not sure that there's any more justification for distrusting someone's account in a post here than there is to trust it.

On the whole, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to someone recounting an experience like this, unless there is good evidence to doubt it. I'd rather make the mistake of putting too much trust in someone, than to disbelieve someone who may be legitimately upset about something that has happened to them. In the former case, I'm not really hurting anyone, because those who are being misrepresented aren't here to resent it. The OP, on the other hand, IS here, and approaching their account sceptically might actually compound the hurt.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Punky Starchild said:

It absolutely astounds me how someone can be upset about anything that has to do with cartoon avatars.

You've surely been here long enough to realize that there is an enormous diversity in how people relate to their avatars? There are some who identify with them strongly, even while being aware of the all-important divide between RL and SL.

There's no right or wrong way to experience SL. Your approach is entirely legitimate. But so is that of those who are more deeply immersed in their experiences here.

[Caeruleiae]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am honestly puzzled how, if the setup and layout is as clearly defined as you suggest, not merely this woman, but apparently also others should so profoundly misunderstand the nature and function of this place. Either there were a number of very confused people there -- were they noobs, maybe? or were they not there themselves? -- or there is some information missing from this account

No information missing-she didn't misunderstand the nature of the place-no one did. Some of the people that agreed with her at first-until they found out what really happened-were just ready to jump on the defense bandwagon with no doubt whatsoever. People do that all the time-don't take any other possibility into account. They just blindly go with whatever information is given and run with it. Just like people cry wolf all the time-in sl or rl doesn't matter they still do it.  Later some of them realized that was stupid-but by then some of the damage she wanted to inflict as some kind of pretend payback-I guess-was already done. 

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Which is not the same thing as suggesting that what happens to our avatars, including negative experiences such as harassment and such, doesn't affect us emotionally.

I never said it doesn't-not once. Of course it can-people are human beings I would expect that for many even people who disassociate their avatar from their rl selves can be and are affected all the time.

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

On the whole, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to someone recounting an experience like this, unless there is good evidence to doubt it. I'd rather make the mistake of putting too much trust in someone, than to disbelieve someone who may be legitimately upset about something that has happened to them. In the former case, I'm not really hurting anyone, because those who are being misrepresented aren't here to resent it. The OP, on the other hand, IS here, and approaching their account sceptically might actually compound the hurt.

In the case I mentioned-the people she claimed did some heinous things to her-which again they did not-were the ones harmed and potentially harmed more if she did any of the things people were suggesting she should. They were the ones others were going to harass-for assaulting her. They were the ones that were going to be the target of some kind of strange attack. She wasn't a victim of anything-but she tried pretty strongly to make them the victims of her own attack and include others in it. That's how I read the OP too-without any further information about what happened I can see it going the same way. I don't always give benefit of the doubt because I may be contributing to someone else's harm. I only recounted what happened in the group because it just happened and was fresh in my mind and op and what op wants to do to get that person back read way too close for me to automatically assume op is telling the full truth. If the internet has taught me anything-it's that people lie way more often on it than they do in rl. 

I'm sure you've been here long enough to know sl takes all kinds-including people like her. In my mind-she's her own type of griefer. She's the kind who will claim victimhood and expect others to go along with it-without a care for how it may end up harming another. Those kinds of people exist everywhere in life including sl. It may not happen as frequently as the opposite-but it does. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Caeruleiae

[Ceka Cianci]

I'm setting their beer down,cause I don't think they are coming back and it's starting to smell really bad.

[EliseAnne85]

9 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But sexual harassment needn't involve physical contact. You can be sexually harassed in RL by email. And the fact that it's "not as bad" or "different from" RL sexual assault doesn't make it acceptable.

I never said it was acceptable.  What I did say on Page 1 is "jumping on people is not okay".  However, now it's said this is an AFK sex place, of which, I've never been to one, so I don't know how they work.  But, I'd think jumping on people is what goes on with AFK sex places.  

As far as someone sexually harassing someone via email, that's emotional distress not physically attacked as the OP stated.  

However, one has to do what one has to do - change their email in real life and be cautious of who one gives it too.  As far as the AFK sex places, it sounds like it's not for them.  And if they want to be at the keyboard and not AFK for sex, what are they doing there in the first place?  This is crazy drama nonesense.

 

Edited March 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Paul Hexem]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:44 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It is.

But accidentally forgetting to lock your door, and being burgled, doesn't make you the villain, and it certainly doesn't absolve the thief of guilt. If your neighbour's house was robbed, would you focus on berating them instead of acknowledging that an actual crime had been committed?

The post in question completely lacks any perspective -- not to mention empathy and generosity. 

It's worth mentioning that my whole RL career/industry exists to show potential victims how not to be victimized. People pay me a lot of money to point out things they could do differently and steps they can take to prevent bad things from happening- and at no point does it involve blaming them for said bad things.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

at no point does it involve blaming them for said bad things

I don't think I've ever seen you doing this, Paul.

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't think I've ever seen you doing this, Paul.

I've been accused of doing it enough times that it was partially the motivation for that reply.

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

I've been accused of doing it enough times that it was partially the motivation for that reply.

Can we hire you as a consultant?

[Love Zhaoying]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:54 AM, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm setting their beer down,cause I don't think they are coming back and it's starting to smell really bad.

Must be American beer. A proper British beer wouldn't need to be kept cold.

[Love Zhaoying]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:37 PM, Rowan Amore said:

Unless someone is new so they don't understand what can happen, people should use common sense when parking their avatar on couple's furniture.  Only took me one time, early on, to learn that valuable lesson.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me 14 times, ITS GRIEFING!!1!!!1!

[Krystina Ferraris]

On 3/19/2023 at 6:46 PM, Love Zhaoying said:

Must be American beer. A proper British beer wouldn't need to be kept cold.

Just like their offices are better and so is their use.of.punctuation.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

Just like their offices are better and so is their use.of.punctuation.

And maths.