PBR Materials @SL University

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Why do you laugh at that idea? You think it is impossible even after seeing what they are doing with lighting in other ways? Facelights don't have to be blinding if their intensity is toned down.

The thing is, you still assume everyone will have see attached lighting enabled.  You don't have much control over how others will see your avatar.  It depends on THEIR lighting and not yours.  

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

The thing is, you still assume everyone will have see attached lighting enabled.  You don't have much control over how others will see your avatar.  It depends on THEIR lighting and not yours.  

Does that not depend if they have facelights turned off, assuming the viewer can do so? A facelight does not alter the general setting for the whole region, just the vicinity of the avatar wearing it.

[Rowan Amore]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Does that not depend if they have facelights turned off, assuming the viewer can do so? A facelight does not alter the general setting for the whole region, just the vicinity of the avatar wearing it.

That's what having attached lighting enabled does.  It allows YOU to see your face light and anyone else's.  I never have attached lights enabled unless I'm taking a picture as I'll often use a face light in that situation only if the region lighting might require just a bit more focused light.  The Lumipro lighting system also requires you to have attached lights enabled for part of their system.  What none of that will do is effect how anyone see you if THEY have attached lights off.  Your face light won't effect the region EEP aside from shining a spotlight on you. 

[EliseAnne85]

I didn't really want to talk about facelights but I can say bringing out a new shiny that is 100  times more difficult {EEP} than a click thru menu and a slider {Windlight) that took minutes was my experience in my disengaging from SL because SL went from extreme ease of use to a royal pain in the neck.  So, I was commenting on that as per your article as to why some websites lose users; non user friendly features.  The ideas for features you presented in this thread were good ones also, btw, Arielle, aside from my experience and displeasure with EEP.

BTW, I'm waiting to see what this new PBR viewer will look like but I'd prefer it with the Windlight super easy system.

Edited February 14, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Rowan Amore]

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Firestorm-Default-Sky-Windlights-for-EEP/20088838

[EliseAnne85]

55 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Firestorm-Default-Sky-Windlights-for-EEP/20088838

So, those Windlights then were made by the Firestorm team?  Those are the amazing windlights I'm talking about (I recognize the names) but they aren't named EEP and there are almost 800 of them to rename with many in each box.  If there was a way to put them into something like a HUD that would be great but I don't know of any EEP HUD that gives a click thru menu of any EEP.  Azimuth could be the slider for these but still renaming 800 EEP's is a lot of work.  I'll think about it.  

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

So, those Windlights then were made by the Firestorm team?  Those are the amazing windlights I'm talking about (I recognize the names) but they aren't named EEP and there are almost 800 of them to rename with many in each box.  If there was a way to put them into something like a HUD that would be great but I don't know of any EEP HUD that gives a click thru menu of any EEP.  Azimuth could be the slider for these but still renaming 800 EEP's is a lot of work.  I'll think about it.  

Pick and choose what you like and put them in your Settings folder.  Same names as before and the icon denotes it as an EEP setting.  What's nice is, you can also edit them if they are too dark or too light very easily using the Ambient section in My Personal Lighting.  Just remember to save.

ETA...what's really nice about EEP is it's now an asset in your inventory.  You can pass them to friends and such.  That's what is in the Settings folder in your inventory.  Also, there should be some in the Library settings folders, too.  Find one you like to build with and rename it Build Lighting.  Then, right click it in your inventory and Apply to self... 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[EliseAnne85]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Pick and choose what you like and put them in your Settings folder.  Same names as before and the icon denotes it as an EEP setting.  What's nice is, you can also edit them if they are too dark or too light very easily using the Ambient section in My Personal Lighting.  Just remember to save.

ETA...what's really nice about EEP is it's now an asset in your inventory.  You can pass them to friends and such.  That's what is in the Settings folder in your inventory.  Also, there should be some in the Library settings folders, too.  Find one you like to build with and rename it Build Lighting.  Then, right click it in your inventory and Apply to self... 

I can't believe that the wonderful WINDLIGHTS are here.  This really made my day!   Thanks so much!  I had many EEPs but most were not modify so I couldn't rename them to EEP and they were all lost in my inventory because they had weird names like Cool's Great Day or something one wouldn't remember.  

The one's that were modify I added EEP at the end by renaming them as shown in my screenshot below.  I think they need to be renamed EEP.  I will have to log back in now and check.  This is my current EEPs under settings.  I'll be right back and see if they went into my settings without renaming them.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I can't believe that the wonderful WINDLIGHTS are here.  This really made my day!   Thanks so much!  I had many EEPs but most were not modify so I couldn't rename them to EEP and they were all lost in my inventory because they had weird names like Cool's Great Day or something one wouldn't remember.  

The one's that were modify I added EEP at the end by renaming them as shown in my screenshot below.  I think they need to be renamed EEP.  I will have to log back in now and check.  This is my current EEPs under settings.  I'll be right back and see if they went into my settings without renaming them.

That landscape icon denotes them as Settings/EEP.  You can reset your inventory to show only Settings then scoop them all up if they are elsewhere and put them in the Settings folder.

[EliseAnne85]

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

That landscape icon denotes them as Settings/EEP.  You can reset your inventory to show only Settings then scoop them all up if they are elsewhere and put them in the Settings folder.

Oh, I see, do it with inventory filters.  Yes, I just checked, they didn't automatically go in my settings area because of the icon.  

[Charlotte Bartlett]

On 2/10/2023 at 4:28 PM, EliseAnne85 said:

I haven't listened to the whole video yet...it's a little over a half an hour long.  One thing they kept bringing up was SUBSTANCE PAINTER.  I don't have SUBSTANCE PAINTER but I know it's something like 50 dollars a month.  There seems to be a free SUBSTANCE PAINTER one can sign up for but it's for students and teachers.  I find 50 dollars a month kind of a lot of money for me right now.  

We pay USD 19.99 for just Painter per month.  Albeit now it's Adobe and the last release is a mess.
Just checked and you can still get for 19.99 (texturing).
 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Charlotte Bartlett
updated to confirm still available.

[blissfulbreeze]

I have been away from SL and the forums for a few months. I have a question, when I used SL, I used low graphics, no advanced lighting and such. My draw distance was usually 72 or less. I was okay with this because I mostly focused on the person I was with and not the surrounding environment. However, if I went sightseeing then I'd raise my draw distance and the graphics, but not too much. The reason for my lag is probably due to my wifi. I am not able to hard connect due to the box is upstairs and the pc is downstairs.

So, with this PBR stuff, in layman's terms.. will I be able to use SL without advanced lighting and higher settings?

Thanks in advance!

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, blissfulbreeze said:

So, with this PBR stuff, in layman's terms.. will I be able to use SL without advanced lighting and higher settings?

As I understand it, you'll get Advanced Lighting Model in the new PBR-capable viewer. This may be a problem in your case because I believe ALM does increase the bandwidth demand, to download material maps for those surfaces that use them. (For a few years it may be even worse, with both first-gen diffuse- specular- and normal-maps, and the four GLTF 2.0 subset maps used for SL's PBR.) If this is wrong, I hope somebody will correct me.

Your case concerns network capacity, distinct from the usual complaints about ALM and rendering performance; those folks have been anticipating disaster since long before they could test the much improved performance in the new rendering pipeline, so basically they went looking for trouble where it will be very hard to find. Unfortunately, you may have found some actual trouble.

A tangential story: For years I suffered with flakey wifi connectivity to my Linux server hidden in the basement directly below my gateway wifi router on the main floor. I tried upgrading the wifi on the server and the wifi mesh router and nothing helped. Finally, I figured out a way to snake a cable through a main floor outlet and down to the basement and through a wall to the server, and the network has been rock-solid ever since—all thanks to the happy coincidence of siting our fiber terminal right where some previous audiophile owner of this old house put his stereo, complete with banana plug wall outlets and fat cables to remote speakers around the house.

[Innula Zenovka]

11 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The lead developer in this case has been with S/L for 18 years with unknown amount of programming experience before that. It is highly unlikely that it would have been the only project they were capable of.

Certainly, but I still don't think it's safe to move from "The lead developer is highly experienced and multi-talented" to "their skillset and expertise must therefore include fixing whatever it is I think needs fixing".   I mean, you wouldn't necessarily expect a cardiologist, no matter how experienced, to treat cancer, nor a criminal defence lawyer, no matter how eminent, to advise you on the finer points of commercial law.

Quote

Even then, the Lab has the means and monies to afford to have multiple developers on staff to be able to balance out both form and function and yet it is only the former they focus on.

Indeed, but it must therefore follow that it wasn't a simple choice between introducing the new feature and fixing the existing issue.  Consequently, whatever the reason was for not fixing the thing you think they should have fixed, it doesn't seem to be they were too busy working on the new feature to attend to whatever it was to which you would rather they devoted their attention.    

[blissfulbreeze]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

As I understand it, you'll get Advanced Lighting Model in the new PBR-capable viewer. This may be a problem in your case because I believe ALM does increase the bandwidth demand, to download material maps for those surfaces that use them. (For a few years it may be even worse, with both first-gen diffuse- specular- and normal-maps, and the four GLTF 2.0 subset maps used for SL's PBR.) If this is wrong, I hope somebody will correct me.

Your case concerns network capacity, distinct from the usual complaints about ALM and rendering performance; those folks have been anticipating disaster since long before they could test the much improved performance in the new rendering pipeline, so basically they went looking for trouble where it will be very hard to find. Unfortunately, you may have found some actual trouble.

A tangential story: For years I suffered with flakey wifi connectivity to my Linux server hidden in the basement directly below my gateway wifi router on the main floor. I tried upgrading the wifi on the server and the wifi mesh router and nothing helped. Finally, I figured out a way to snake a cable through a main floor outlet and down to the basement and through a wall to the server, and the network has been rock-solid ever since—all thanks to the happy coincidence of siting our fiber terminal right where some previous audiophile owner of this old house put his stereo, complete with banana plug wall outlets and fat cables to remote speakers around the house.

Thank you. I'll probably have to quit SL. No biggie. I've lost interest the past 4 months or so. Will see how it goes.

[arton Rotaru]

6 hours ago, blissfulbreeze said:

I have been away from SL and the forums for a few months. I have a question, when I used SL, I used low graphics, no advanced lighting and such. My draw distance was usually 72 or less. I was okay with this because I mostly focused on the person I was with and not the surrounding environment. However, if I went sightseeing then I'd raise my draw distance and the graphics, but not too much. The reason for my lag is probably due to my wifi. I am not able to hard connect due to the box is upstairs and the pc is downstairs.

So, with this PBR stuff, in layman's terms.. will I be able to use SL without advanced lighting and higher settings?

Thanks in advance!

Hard to tell about the connection. I'd recommend downloading the project viewer and try it. Besides that its more texture maps, as Qie mentioned, the texture streaming is all new in this viewer. For me textures coming in much faster, as its only downloading the mip size it needs to display an 1:1 texel to pixel ratio.

Its usually only 3 maps as well for PBR. Only when an emissive map is required, it might be 4 maps.

Chances are that even your performance will be improved. Worth trying for sure, before thinking about to quit.

Edited February 14, 2023 by arton Rotaru

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

I mean, you wouldn't necessarily expect a cardiologist, no matter how experienced, to treat cancer, nor a criminal defence lawyer, no matter how eminent, to advise you on the finer points of commercial law.

Thaaaahhhhtttt depends a great deal on the "you."

[blissfulbreeze]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:53 AM, arton Rotaru said:

Hard to tell about the connection. I'd recommend downloading the project viewer and try it. Besides that its more texture maps, as Qie mentioned, the texture streaming is all new in this viewer. For me textures coming in much faster, as its only downloading the mip size it needs to display an 1:1 texel to pixel ratio.

Its usually only 3 maps as well for PBR. Only when an emissive map is required, it might be 4 maps.

Chances are that even your performance will be improved. Worth trying for sure, before thinking about to quit.

Thank you for the input and advice! I was not going to quit before I tried to see if I swim or drown with the PBR stuff lol.

I may have to give up Firestorm and use a less heavy viewer, will see how it goes. I'll try the Project Viewer as well.