A Positive Brainstorming / Suggestion Box Thread - Ideas for Improving Second Life Sociability, Usability and Retention

[Silent Mistwalker]

33 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Rezzing it is the problem. Not a problem with Firestorm, or with my proposal to mimic Firestorm.

Unless that's not what you meant.

ETA: I may be using the "wrong words" and should be saying "Firestorm Poser".

Words are HARD.

Where there is a will, there is a way. 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

35 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Nope.

But, the implied subtext of my proposal is: what percentage of people even know about the Library or go looking in it?

i only did recently for the first time in years because I wondered if there were swords and torches in there.

So, a sub-suggestion would be: Include the Library existence in edumakashun.

Most of what is in the Library is not really usable other than learning how to build and a place to grab a default avatar when you experience a really difficult bake fail.

I don't remember there being any swords but the torch was... well... subpar. Granted the thing is from 2003 but still. lol

[Rowan Amore]

39 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

 I'll click my avi too many times trying to get it right.  

Edit from your inventory instead of trying to right click on the worn item to edit.  I gave up trying to right click on the worn items years ago.  Unless you've just added the item to your outfit, go to Current Outfit, find what you want to adjust, right click, edit.  No more capturing the wrong thing!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Edit from your inventory instead of trying to right click on the worn item to edit.  I gave up trying to right click on the worn items years ago.  Unless you've just added the item to your outfit, go to Current Outfit, find what you want to adjust, right click, edit.  No more capturing the wrong thing!

Yup. I right-click for the larger items (hair, hats, glasses, big earrings, etc.) but some things require a good ole inventory Edit to grab.

 

41 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

 Every other free to play game lets people get involved for nothing and slowly introduces the paid options. SL is the opposite, basically "spend L$5,000 on this body and L$5,000 on this head and we can start to pick out clothes and stuff."

Very good point! Though mesh third-party upgrades are entirely optional, there is a certain pressure to get caught up before you get too involved in things. At least, that's what I've observed. And unfortunately, it takes a bit of time to realize there are a couple of free options that will work until the holiday sales and giveaways roll around again (which I explain to people before letting them settle on spending 3k or more for a head or body).

 

48 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

SL has more than enough concurrent users, they have more than Final Fantasy XIV according to steam charts. But I think they are too spread out.

This one I'm not so sure about. I would've thought most people are playing FFXIV from the standalone Square Enix launcher. Plus, the PS4 and PS5 version. Add all that up together with Steam for the totals.

[Qie Niangao]

48 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Edit from your inventory instead of trying to right click on the worn item to edit.  I gave up trying to right click on the worn items years ago.  Unless you've just added the item to your outfit, go to Current Outfit, find what you want to adjust, right click, edit.  No more capturing the wrong thing!

Absolutely. But it's possible to somewhat improve the odds for "right click on the worn item" by making sure they're always worn on an attachment point where they intersect with the avatar, then right-clicking near that attachment point. Doesn't always work, by any means, but beats trying to select fitted shoes that are attached to your right hand.

About pose stands, mostly I was trying to make the point that it's critical for the Linden viewer to be as newbie accessible as possible. Many of us remember the dumbed-down "starter" viewer, which was a noble disaster. Had that worked, it would have been fine to load up the "advanced" Linden viewer with all the features, and then it would be just like Firestorm. So I'm serious: we should be spending at least as much effort finding stuff to remove from the Linden viewer as stuff to add.

But since it came up: when I actually need a pose stand, I only ever use this L$1 full-perm contraption: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TMT-Pose-Stand/1265232 because it has so many fit-exercising poses, indispensable for making intricate alpha masks for fit-challenged mesh. Thing is, I need it maybe once a month to do something no newbie ever does, yet when I was a newbie I used a pose stand multiple times a day. These days I "Edit outfit" pretty often (especially to re-order BOM layers) so I wonder if that could be made to serve every purpose a pose stand does and then some, and be as easy for a newbie to discover as a pose stand built-in to the viewer, but I really have no intuition nor memory of what newbie me was even doing, standing on all those pose stands back then.

[Sasy Scarborough]

I use the inbuilt FS posestand daily and sometimes many times daily, it is used a lot by content creators to check on something you need checking on. I use it to keep myself still if I need to focus in on something rather than turning my AO off, I use it to grab gyazos if I am trying to explain something to someone etc. It would be a very good option to add to SL Viewer but again unless someone teaches people what these things are they won't know. I do not know how old I was before I learned to even rez a posestand but it was definitely not day one, and yet day two I was already working. It also took me over a month to find out that as a new resident I could have gotten new resident things like hair etc from Gurl 6 and so on, I know that is not a thing now, but SL is a huge and very steep learning curve, many of us oldbies learned together, we did that curve uphill side by side, imagine being new and just dumped into it all. We started with feet then hands then bodies then heads etc, the creators moved along with the releases, we had people informing people about what glitch pants were, how to use a transparent sock to make your flared pants not show skin, and the same with gloves and sleeves...it was not something we just had to learn solo and often I think people forget that. Unless you have a veteran in SL already it is overwhelming, I see at least once a day someone somewhere asking how to get their feet out of the floor, LL do not teach the platform before you enter and I think that they should.

[Charlotte Bartlett]

21 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Suggestion: Make a way for Creators to submit "Free Items" to the default avatar "Library". If needed, add categories and sub folders to the "Library".

("Trusted" creators, "Provably DRM-free" items.)

 

(a) Creators generally don't know how to make proper LODS content so the library could get filled with poor quality items with best intents leading again to a baseline that if it looks pretty it is quality versus how efficient it is.

(b) How do you prove "Trusted" and the overhead on that.

The alternative  is have the Moles create extra Library items.  LL the owns the IP rights.   This would be an easier project for LL to manage versus oversee creator submitted content and then have to validate it.

[benchthis]

1 hour ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I use the inbuilt FS posestand daily and sometimes many times daily, it is used a lot by content creators to check on something you need checking on. I use it to keep myself still if I need to focus in on something rather than turning my AO off, I use it to grab gyazos if I am trying to explain something to someone etc. It would be a very good option to add to SL Viewer but again unless someone teaches people what these things are they won't know. I do not know how old I was before I learned to even rez a posestand but it was definitely not day one, and yet day two I was already working. It also took me over a month to find out that as a new resident I could have gotten new resident things like hair etc from Gurl 6 and so on, I know that is not a thing now, but SL is a huge and very steep learning curve, many of us oldbies learned together, we did that curve uphill side by side, imagine being new and just dumped into it all. We started with feet then hands then bodies then heads etc, the creators moved along with the releases, we had people informing people about what glitch pants were, how to use a transparent sock to make your flared pants not show skin, and the same with gloves and sleeves...it was not something we just had to learn solo and often I think people forget that. Unless you have a veteran in SL already it is overwhelming, I see at least once a day someone somewhere asking how to get their feet out of the floor, LL do not teach the platform before you enter and I think that they should.

Maybe having the LL/SL Chatbot/Virtual Assistant Boxy5000 built into the viewers chat would be most helpful. AND New users are given a week or a month of free complimentary linden chat support, this way the questions Boxy5000 does not yet know can be programmed into his responses. "My feet are underground?" Boxy 5000. "Oh my they sure are! Please try this: On the top of the screen click avatar and then hover height. You will notice a slider you can click hold and move from side to side to adjust your hover height. Depending on the numerious types of avatars you can find in Second Life, you may need to adjust this from time to time."

Welcome to Second Life I'm Boxy 5000 i'm your virtual personal assistant. Anytime you have any questions about anything I will help you find the answer. 

Would be most useful for Boxy 5000 be familiar with the destination guide. Where can I live? Boxy 5000. "How exciting! I can recommend a few places, lets start with premium Linden Homes. I'll send you a teleport, lets go explore some options." 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

24 minutes ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

(a) Creators generally don't know how to make proper LODS content so the library could get filled with poor quality items with best intents leading again to a baseline that if it looks pretty it is quality versus how efficient it is.

(b) How do you prove "Trusted" and the overhead on that.

The alternative  is have the Moles create extra Library items.  LL the owns the IP rights.   This would be an easier project for LL to manage versus oversee creator submitted content and then have to validate it.

By "Submitting" them, I meant also "Submit for Review". 

A panel of properly educated people would make sure the item was OK.

Regarding LOD: The item doesn't need to be Mesh just because it's in the Library.  Just saying!

In fact, if "new" and "nice" items were in the Library - and it was more visible, perhaps it would inspire newer people to create more with non-Mesh.

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

it was not something we just had to learn solo

It was for me and still is for the most part. 

We don't all have the same experiences from our early days.

Quote

LL do not teach the platform before you enter and I think that they should.

If people have to learn all this stuff before ever even logging into the grid, they will never log in to the grid.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

Suggestion: Guide users to an "Official Second Life Education" YouTube channel. LL to create the videos and/or curate the channel, keep it current and relevant to the current Second Life features, topics, etc.

[Love Zhaoying]

Here's a good one:  Give new users, and encourage them to try, a decent, attachable "car" or other vehicle they can use to explore Second Life instead of just flying. ("Attachable" so they don't have to be able to Rez it.)

Yes, there's probably free cars in the Library and already all over the Marketplace. But encouraging new users "up front" to try Driving in Second Life helps get them started in a different / more familiar way then Flying.

Maybe fix Region Crossings too, so Driving is not a disappointment..

For those who may say, "But what about the Vehicle Creators / Sellers"? I say: LL is about to give everyone free starter Mesh bodies..

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

36 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Suggestion: Guide users to an "Official Second Life Education" YouTube channel. LL to create the videos and/or curate the channel, keep it current and relevant to the current Second Life features, topics, etc.

Scroll down to see all the educational vids for SLUniversity and tutorials.

Maybe I'm looking at things crossed eyed, but it seems to me LL already does this. Maybe people should slow down a bit and actually look for things instead of trying to rush through everything like they do in RL every day?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5dsLkNZX9pVgmEHpJX9QCA

 

Edit: I thought this was cool. Pretty consistent with what we were talking about yesterday but I'll be damned if the term will come to mind at the moment.:

 

Edit2: Concurrency! That's the word and I'm sticking to it!

Edited February 20, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Scroll down to see all the educational vids for SLUniversity and tutorials.

Maybe I'm looking at things crossed eyed, but it seems to me LL already does this. Maybe people should slow down a bit and actually look for things instead of trying to rush through everything like they do in RL every day?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5dsLkNZX9pVgmEHpJX9QCA

 

Edit: I thought this was cool. Pretty consistent with what we were talking about yesterday but I'll be damned if the term will come to mind at the moment.:

 

Edit2: Concurrency! That's the word and I'm sticking to it!

So, to clarify, and be more clear on what I intended (what I "meant"): my suggestion was that Linden Lab "guide users" to videos.

Unspoken was, guide NEW users specifically to some organized set of videos.

..Aside from the occasional "On the Login Page", "On an official Forum Blog", etc.  I'm not saying those do not exist.

I am not aware if NEW users are "guided" towards any official videos for education.  So, I put it out there as a suggestion, assuming such a "guidance" towards education videos does not exist.

(Sorry, if that's not what you meant.)

19 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Maybe people should slow down a bit and actually look for things instead of trying to rush through everything like they do in RL every day?

Can you please explain your intent with the above statement? I start out, possibly incorrectlly, assuming the comment is related to the videos: Do you mean the (assumedly *NEW*) users could could most benefit per my suggestion - could find the videos if they "slow down a bit and actually look for things"?  Or do you mean me, i.e. 'those who may suggest videos while videos already exist"?  If your answer is "No, I shall not / cannot explain my intent", that's OK too.

Thank you very much for your feedback.

 

[benchthis]

17 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Scroll down to see all the educational vids for SLUniversity and tutorials.

Maybe I'm looking at things crossed eyed, but it seems to me LL already does this. Maybe people should slow down a bit and actually look for things instead of trying to rush through everything like they do in RL every day?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5dsLkNZX9pVgmEHpJX9QCA

 

Edit: I thought this was cool. Pretty consistent with what we were talking about yesterday but I'll be damned if the term will come to mind at the moment.:

 

Edit2: Concurrency! That's the word and I'm sticking to it!

Maybe adding laptops with media players to tables in the new user experience welcome area. This could teach users how to sit and zoom in on a specific place (laptop) and how to interact with media player. Set the media on prim to this link: Second Life - YouTube with instructions for how to get to the SLU playlist. Nothing against bars or boose but offering something more focused, professional, & educational is the point of the new user experience area is it not? This would be the best way to introduce the SLU to new users. 

Sure they could add a large screen video player like on social island, but think little laptops setup at the bar/cyber cafe would be go with the theme better in my opinion. 

[Caeruleiae]

3 hours ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I use the inbuilt FS posestand daily and sometimes many times daily, it is used a lot by content creators to check on something you need checking on. I use it to keep myself still if I need to focus in on something rather than turning my AO off, I use it to grab gyazos if I am trying to explain something to someone etc. It would be a very good option to add to SL Viewer but again unless someone teaches people what these things are they won't know. I do not know how old I was before I learned to even rez a posestand but it was definitely not day one, and yet day two I was already working. It also took me over a month to find out that as a new resident I could have gotten new resident things like hair etc from Gurl 6 and so on, I know that is not a thing now, but SL is a huge and very steep learning curve, many of us oldbies learned together, we did that curve uphill side by side, imagine being new and just dumped into it all. We started with feet then hands then bodies then heads etc, the creators moved along with the releases, we had people informing people about what glitch pants were, how to use a transparent sock to make your flared pants not show skin, and the same with gloves and sleeves...it was not something we just had to learn solo and often I think people forget that. Unless you have a veteran in SL already it is overwhelming, I see at least once a day someone somewhere asking how to get their feet out of the floor, LL do not teach the platform before you enter and I think that they should.

Thank you for this, it really is a different, and can be very difficult, experience for new people than I think some people understand, but it's hard to put it into better words sometimes. 

 

Also, I learned today that fs has a built in pose thing. I have been rezzing a pose stand I was given to make adjustments and check things this whole time. There is a lot of information people think new or less experienced people should have, or know where to look for as if they know it exists to search  it in the first place. I am always learning new things, almost everyday. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Caeruleiae

[Silent Mistwalker]

47 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

the (assumedly *NEW*) users could could most benefit per my suggestion - could find the videos if they "slow down a bit and actually look for things"

 

This.

I'm not in a position at the moment to go find them but I do remember seeing things inworld that would direct new users to said info if the new user has already figured out, they have to click on the board (or whatever method is used).

Back in the day, I almost didn't make it all the way through Orientation. From what I've been hearing today's Orientation is a vast improvement. Not that it can't use more improvement, just that it has vastly improved over the years and it's mostly on the users to actually do the research. Like older residents, LL can only point them in the right direction. It's been my experience that a lot of users don't follow through and just say they do. That doesn't come out until you've been trying to help them for a while only for them to finally admit they didn't do all the steps or didn't even bother to do anything.

What I'm saying is, LL does point new users in the right direction but it's on the new user to follow through with it. Too many don't because they aren't getting that instant gratification.

[Silent Mistwalker]

59 minutes ago, benchthis said:

Maybe adding laptops with media players to tables in the new user experience welcome area. This could teach users how to sit and zoom in on a specific place (laptop) and how to interact with media player. Set the media on prim to this link: Second Life - YouTube with instructions for how to get to the SLU playlist. Nothing against bars or boose but offering something more focused, professional, & educational is the point of the new user experience area is it not? This would be the best way to introduce the SLU to new users. 

Sure they could add a large screen video player like on social island, but think little laptops setup at the bar/cyber cafe would be go with the theme better in my opinion. 

 

An internet cafe sort of thing.

I like it!

 

Edit: It "kills" so many birds with one stone!

Edited February 20, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Silent Mistwalker]

53 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

Thank you for this, it really is a different, and can be very difficult, experience for new people than I think some people understand, but it's hard to put it into better words sometimes. 

 

Also, I learned today that fs has a built in pose thing. I have been rezzing a pose stand I was given to make adjustments and check things this whole time. There is a lot of information people think new or less experienced people should have, or know where to look for as if they know it exists to search  it in the first place. I am always learning new things, almost everyday. 

Even those of us who have been in [SL] since (or almost since) day 1 are still learning new SL things every day in SL. 😁

Edited February 20, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Flea Yatsenko]

5 hours ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

I use the inbuilt FS posestand daily and sometimes many times daily, it is used a lot by content creators to check on something you need checking on. I use it to keep myself still if I need to focus in on something rather than turning my AO off, I use it to grab gyazos if I am trying to explain something to someone etc. It would be a very good option to add to SL Viewer but again unless someone teaches people what these things are they won't know. I do not know how old I was before I learned to even rez a posestand but it was definitely not day one, and yet day two I was already working. It also took me over a month to find out that as a new resident I could have gotten new resident things like hair etc from Gurl 6 and so on, I know that is not a thing now, but SL is a huge and very steep learning curve, many of us oldbies learned together, we did that curve uphill side by side, imagine being new and just dumped into it all. We started with feet then hands then bodies then heads etc, the creators moved along with the releases, we had people informing people about what glitch pants were, how to use a transparent sock to make your flared pants not show skin, and the same with gloves and sleeves...it was not something we just had to learn solo and often I think people forget that. Unless you have a veteran in SL already it is overwhelming, I see at least once a day someone somewhere asking how to get their feet out of the floor, LL do not teach the platform before you enter and I think that they should.

Pose stands are there to solve a problem. I.E. you are moving around when trying to adjust things on your AV, etc. and your AV keeps moving so it's impossible to grab what you want. If you want to make things easier, you get rid of the problems for needing a pose stand in the first place. You can't get rid of all of them, but I'm pretty sure everyone here at some point in their Second Lives ended up trying to move an attachment and fighting the AV from moving around. I know I did when I was new.

For example, a way to solve that problem would be to have an animation or pose play when you open up your build tools. If you're trying to get a screen shot, turn off all other animations and open up a list of poses or animations and let you choose them. Almost all other snapshot features in other games do this, like you pick poses and stuff when you're taking your snapshot.

I feel like a lot of problems with SL's interface comes from trying to solve a problem by adding a new feature, instead of trying to remove a problem. A good interface teaches people how to use the interface without even realizing it. Like, they'd have a snapshot mode that was borderline tutorial, had some poses so people could learn to use poses and what they do, give them the ability to rez some props and move them around, etc. If you have a game that has a snapshot or photo mode check it out and see how it works and compare it to setting a scene for a snapshot with SL.

[EliseAnne85]

I can't go inworld right now so I need your help with a question?  Can we hide our groups from others in our profile as well as our PICKS?   Hiding our GROUPS/PICKS might be helpful in times when someone is being harassing towards us.  They could be switched back on too, of course if and when someone wants them shown. 

If we can hide our GROUPS/PICKS....then let me know.  If they can't, my SUGGESTION is to be able to hide GROUP and PICKS.  

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Ayashe Ninetails]

13 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I can't go inworld right now so I need your help with a question?  Can we hide our groups from others in our profile as well as our PICKS?   Hiding our GROUPS/PICKS might be helpful in times when someone is being harassing towards us.  They could be switched back on too, of course if and when someone wants them shown. 

If we can hide our GROUPS/PICKS....then let me know.  If they can't, my SUGGESTION is to be able to hide GROUP and PICKS.  

Individual groups can be hidden from everyone. It essentially removes them from the list. There's a little checkbox option in the group area of the profile when you click on a group to hide/show. Not sure if there's a way to mass hide/show, but you can do it one by one.

As far as I know, there's no way to hide Picks. I could be wrong on that...never looked for an option.

Oh quick edit: I'm talking about Firestorm here. Not sure how it works in any other viewer.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Ayashe Ninetails
Added stuffs

[EliseAnne85]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Individual groups can be hidden from everyone. It essentially removes them from the list. There's a little checkbox option in the group area of the profile when you click on a group to hide/show. Not sure if there's a way to mass hide/show, but you can do it one by one.

As far as I know, there's no way to hide Picks. I could be wrong on that...never looked for an option.

Oh yes I remember that now...you can do it one by one.  

I ask about PICKS because sometimes people put names of others (loved ones/family/etc) who are important and there may be times when it's necessary to hide that for awhile.  

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Oh yes I remember that now...you can do it one by one.  

I ask about PICKS because sometimes people put names of others (loved ones/family/etc) who are important and there may be times when it's necessary to hide that for awhile.  

 

Lemme update what I said above for the newest version of Firestorm - checkboxes are now gone. You just hover over the group name and you'll see three little icons on the right - one is an eye with a line through it. That's how you hide now.

 

As for Picks...lemme take a quick look since I'm online.

Not seeing anything in Preferences/Privacy or anywhere else I peeked.

[Rowan Amore]

The only way to hide picks is.to not have them.