Does second life offer you with a meaningful experience ?

[SuraCiel]

Hello everyone, 

You can find me in the world as Sura,  I have a rl friend who is currently researching on the meaningful gaming experience. He has not heard about SL before so he can't post here, but he is so interested in learning how we feel about SL after I have explained SL is not just a game to him. He wants to know does it offer us meaning and does the in-game challenges influence us. His survey has a raffle of 20 pounds/USD/Euro of amazon coupons 

You can find the survey link here, it is a qualtrics link operated by the university , you can contact me or him directly if there is anything you want to know 

https://york.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_2aEjfJ2LJH9ND4G 

And please tell me if I should move this to non-profit page lol (I can make mistake here, just don't ban me please) 

Edited July 22, 2022 by SuraCiel

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Hi Sura,

In general, I'm very sympathetic to students and scholars doing research on Second Life, and will take surveys if those researchers seem to know what they're doing. And I've filled out this one.

I'm going to side more than a little, though, with the inevitable objections that are going to appear here shortly.

The survey itself seems generally well-done, although the early bits are clearly designed for more standard computer games. The requirement for full text answers (rather than multiple choice, etc.) means that one can talk meaningfully about SL, but is likely to turn off some people. And I like that the information about the project, and the hosting institution, is all there and immediately available.

The main problem is, of course, that the researcher is not going to be basing any of this on first hand experience. Yes, he has you to call upon, I'm sure -- but it's a bit like trying to write a book about life in Paris with access only to people's postcards, travelogues, and diaries. It's not the same thing. And that's the main objection you're going to see here. I have some sympathy with it. (And yes, I recognize that this is only a MSc project, and the researcher doesn't have an endless amount of time available to get to know the platform, especially if it's only one part of a much larger project.)

Wish him good luck for me . . . but I doubt you'll get a lot of uptake for this here.

[LittleMe Jewell]

46 minutes ago, SuraCiel said:

Hello everyone, 

You can find me in the world as Sura,  I have a rl friend who is currently researching on the meaningful gaming experience. He has not heard about SL before so he can't post here, but he is so interested in learning how we feel about SL after I have explained SL is not just a game to him. He wants to know does it offer us meaning and does the in-game challenges influence us. His survey has a raffle of 20 pounds/USD/Euro of amazon coupons 

You can find the survey link here, it is a qualtrics link operated by the university , you can contact me or him directly if there is anything you want to know 

https://york.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_2aEjfJ2LJH9ND4G 

And please tell me if I should move this to non-profit page lol (I can make mistake here, just don't ban me please) 

Wow, this one actually has indications of being a proper research survey -- granted I haven't gone past the first page yet.

ETA:  It is late for me, so I will actually do the survey tomorrow.

Edited July 22, 2022 by LittleMe Jewell

[Madelaine McMasters]

Done. Wish your friend well from me!

[SuraCiel]

10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Hi Sura,

In general, I'm very sympathetic to students and scholars doing research on Second Life, and will take surveys if those researchers seem to know what they're doing. And I've filled out this one.

I'm going to side more than a little, though, with the inevitable objections that are going to appear here shortly.

The survey itself seems generally well-done, although the early bits are clearly designed for more standard computer games. The requirement for full text answers (rather than multiple choice, etc.) means that one can talk meaningfully about SL, but is likely to turn off some people. And I like that the information about the project, and the hosting institution, is all there and immediately available.

The main problem is, of course, that the researcher is not going to be basing any of this on first hand experience. Yes, he has you to call upon, I'm sure -- but it's a bit like trying to write a book about life in Paris with access only to people's postcards, travelogues, and diaries. It's not the same thing. And that's the main objection you're going to see here. I have some sympathy with it. (And yes, I recognize that this is only a MSc project, and the researcher doesn't have an endless amount of time available to get to know the platform, especially if it's only one part of a much larger project.)

Wish him good luck for me . . . but I doubt you'll get a lot of uptake for this here.

Thank you Scylla for helping ! I have passed your feedback to him as he said it is important too ! I am like a customer respresentative now lol (I will remember to ask him to buy me coffee). 

So he has two reasons for making it like this , I will quote him

"One reason for inviting players to give full text answers is because, actually there are very small number of metrics that can measure the player experience in terms of meaning. A general survey without validity will only allow researchers to make assumption. In many researches, they think they have found something, but cannot really connect to the players. The experience of the players are the reflection of their individuality, their life experience, especially in games that give them the freedom to make choices. So, me as a researcher would not want to take that away from the players by using numbers to measure them"

For not playing the game "It is my bad, sorry darling"  lol !

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, SuraCiel said:

Thank you Scylla for helping ! I have passed your feedback to him as he said it is important too ! I am like a customer respresentative now lol (I will remember to ask him to buy me coffee). 

So he has two reasons for making it like this , I will quote him

"One reason for inviting players to give full text answers is because, actually there are very small number of metrics that can measure the player experience in terms of meaning. A general survey without validity will only allow researchers to make assumption. In many researches, they think they have found something, but cannot really connect to the players. The experience of the players are the reflection of their individuality, their life experience, especially in games that give them the freedom to make choices. So, me as a researcher would not want to take that away from the players by using numbers to measure them"

For not playing the game "It is my bad, sorry darling"  lol !

Thanks for this Sura.

For what it's worth I very much liked the opportunity to give fuller answers. But then, I'm prolix as hell. Shutting me up is the problem. And I agree with your friend entirely: it not only provides a much richer bank of information for him to use, but also does humanize the respondent, and create a kind of connection.

My only concern is that many people will look at the text fields and pass. However, without doubt, the data that is produced will be much more useful and interesting.

I like this project, and its premises. I hope he's able to so something interesting with it.

Also, I hope you're at least getting a free cup of coffee for all the work you're putting in!

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

My only concern is that many people will look at the text fields and pass.

I started to fill it out and then realized, "Nope, these questions are way too broad for me." 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I started to fill it out and then realized, "Nope, these questions are way too broad for me." 

Pfffft. Bad Lion. Or, at least, Disappointing Lion.

Breadth of reference is a gift: it means you aren't limited by the researcher's preconceptions! They are also, I suspect, in this instance a necessity, given the very many different kinds of platform that I presume are being discussed here. Narrow questions based around FPSs, for instance, would hardly be applicable to SL, while questions tailored to a specific platform or type of platform would mean no comparative data.

You're forgiven (as Luna would no doubt say), but tsk tsk.

[SuraCiel]

8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Thanks for this Sura.

For what it's worth I very much liked the opportunity to give fuller answers. But then, I'm prolix as hell. Shutting me up is the problem. And I agree with your friend entirely: it not only provides a much richer bank of information for him to use, but also does humanize the respondent, and create a kind of connection.

My only concern is that many people will look at the text fields and pass. However, without doubt, the data that is produced will be much more useful and interesting.

I like this project, and its premises. I hope he's able to so something interesting with it.

Also, I hope you're at least getting a free cup of coffee for all the work you're putting in!

I will make sure he does a lot of things, A LOT more than a drink !

[SuraCiel]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I started to fill it out and then realized, "Nope, these questions are way too broad for me." 

You can just write your own experience, it is about yourself !  Just like me (But dont let me confuse you) said things like my relationship in game and how does it affect my rl ?

[Love Zhaoying]

18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I started to fill it out and then realized, "Nope, these questions are way too broad for me." 

Pfffft. Bad Lion. Or, at least, Disappointing Lion.

Breadth of reference is a gift: it means you aren't limited by the researcher's preconceptions! They are also, I suspect, in this instance a necessity, given the very many different kinds of platform that I presume are being discussed here. Narrow questions based around FPSs, for instance, would hardly be applicable to SL, while questions tailored to a specific platform or type of platform would mean no comparative data.

You're forgiven (as Luna would no doubt say), but tsk tsk.

RIght! But what if I only WANT to answer with a couple sentences..

BUT the question and subject really DESERVE more..

and I am not willing to sit and write a paragraph..

then I am "caught on the horns of a dilemma". 

Do I spend time that I really do not want to spend, writing a mini-essay? Or just give them short, sweet, condensed answers that leave ME unsatisfied? 

Hmmmm? 

What would you do?  You know how much I just absolutely despise writing!

Edited July 22, 2022 by Love Zhaoying
Writing is haaaaardddd!!!

[Sid Nagy]

I used to do my homework myself.

[SuraCiel]

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

RIght! But what if I only WANT to answer with a couple sentences..

BUT the question and subject really DESERVE more..

and I am not willing to sit and write a paragraph..

then I am "caught on the horns of a dilemma". 

Do I spend time that I really do not want to spend, writing a mini-essay? Or just give them short, sweet, condensed answers that leave ME unsatisfied? 

Hmmmm? 

What would you do?  You know how much I just absolutely despise writing!

Give a short, sweet, condensed answers ! You can add the comment  "I want to write more but I dont have time to do it, it is you ! Give me the coupons ! "

Edited July 22, 2022 by SuraCiel

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I used to do my homework myself.

Iknowrite? If the OP's friend isn't even in SL.. How hard would it have been for them to at least create an account - so they appeared to have (more, actual) interest in our answers?

Thanks, that cinches it for me.

[SuraCiel]

2 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I used to do my homework myself.

You like him to answer your concerns ? I am sure he will be very happy to answer any questions you may have. He is been grinding through reddit subreddit (I just sneak peeked his laptop), game forums, and go around game stores to find participants. I am just giving him a little helping hand lol !

[Love Zhaoying]

You'll get plenty of answers.

Just so you understand, very few people on the forum will respond - so you may want to contact all your friends in Second Life, bug people, etc. 

[SuraCiel]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Iknowrite? If the OP's friend isn't even in SL.. How hard would it have been for them to at least create an account - so they appeared to have (more, actual) interest in our answers?

Thanks, that cinches it for me.

I agree, let me force him to do it today

 

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

You'll get plenty of answers.

Just so you understand, very few people on the forum will respond - so you may want to contact all your friends in Second Life, bug people, etc. 

I know ! I have asked my friends too, and he has basically asked all his friends in gaming to help. But it is his (I dont know how to say it), he is stubborn sometimes, he wants to have people outside the usual network to maintain the neutrality of the answers

Is it what we call, the mind of a scientist ? Why am I living with a scientist, he is not even my bf !

[Silent Mistwalker]

Peeve: College students that think doing a paper on SL will be "an easy grade".

It's even worse when the student in question isn't even a resident of SL, which is usually the case these days.

Compliance is unlikely.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I've already noted that I think the researcher needs to get into SL if he plans to use it for part of his research.

But people talking about "doing homework" and getting "easy grades" aren't quite . . . getting it.

This researcher is engaged in a MSc. A masters involves an intensive one or two year program, often with a thesis component. I don't know enough about this researcher's program of study to tell if this is for a thesis, but we're definitely not talking here about someone trying to write a term paper the night before. That's why masters students have supervisors: a masters degree requires in-depth and detailed analysis of a very focused field, and it is intended to produce original insights into the subject. You don't get into a Masters program unless you've demonstrated you're capable of doing that, and you certainly don't complete one successfully unless you do real scholarly work.

Again, we can agree that this researcher needs to get into Second Life for at least long enough to get a sense of how it differs from the other platforms he is studying.

But if you're going to critique it, drop the misconceptions about what he is actually engaged in here.

[Silent Mistwalker]

I was always under the impression a thesis was either handwritten or type written on paper. Thus, the use of the term "paper" and not "term paper". 

[SuraCiel]

I am the creator in this survey, I have asked Sura to let me use her profile (for this time) to answer some of the concerns that fellow SL members may have. Firstly, please dont blame Sura, she is a bliss and has helped me a lot. 

1) Why SL ?

This study is part of a much boarder research on all kinds of game from around the world, independent games, puzzle games, RPG, or open-world experience like SL and  many more. What I am trying to research is to answer the gap and misunderstanding of a lot of researches that focus only the pleasureable experience, which lead to gaming is not good for people. I want to clear this stigma through studying many different games. SL is influential in its own category and that is why it has been chosen. But other games are also being researched at the same time

2) Why do I have to write so much ?

In the research world, there are really very small numbers of metrics have/can be used to measure meaning, not only because of meaning is different for each people, game research itself is a very new topic. (you may say, no I have been seeing research on games ! You are right, those are focusing on the side to prove game addiction is a disease, which WHO has actually said that)

It is not a requirement to write a mini-eassy , it is not ! An answer that you feel right is great for me already ! Thank you for that

3) You are not part of the SL ! How do you view us ? What do you even know about SL ? I know you guys just try to get an easy grade !

It is 100% not that case, the method that I am using requires me (and I will) to be faithful to the answer from the players, the result will not be 10% of people think that, 9% of people do that, so we can assume (again) on this.

No, it is not, I can be sure about that. There will not be a result, it will be an understanding, a theory that try to explain the answers from all the players, and what do the understandings can bring us , what can the understandings tell the game company and what can the understandings tell the world about players

I hold extremely high standard to my work, I want to make people feel differently about games because I think game is a form of interaction that can do a lot more help that just entertainment

Edited July 22, 2022 by SuraCiel

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, SuraCiel said:

I want to make people feel differently about games because I think game is a form of interaction that can do a lot more help that just entertainment

This is literally the premise of Second Life. One of its earliest and most enduring tag lines was "Your World, Your Imagination."

But be aware that Second Life is very different even from other MMOs.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I was always under the impression a thesis was either handwritten or type written on paper. Thus, the use of the term "paper" and not "term paper". 

A bound paper copy of any successful thesis is generally stored in a repository following the successful completion of an oral defense.

But theses themselves have been delivered in electronic form (usually PDF) since . . . gosh, probably the early 2000s. Mine was.

[SuraCiel]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

This is literally the premise of Second Life. One of its earliest and most enduring tag lines was "Your World, Your Imagination."

But be aware that Second Life is very different even from other MMOs.

Thank you, I am aware, after studying this game and Sura has told me about, I discover it offers a lot of contents in its own way.

Before that, most will use World of Warcraft as the example of MMORPG (there are quite a number of studies on that too), but then I found that SL can fulfill the needs differently, the sense of belongness and the social needs in SL are different and also the freedom to explore the content (created by other players) of in-game world. It is like having a "second life" from the real life.

But I do not understand is, why the player base is relatively smaller than other games, because of the time needed ? As Sura told me, it took her days to make her character lookable, and even longer to have a place that looks ok. And I have played around the control, it is quite difficult to use actually. The experience of the control and the experience in the game are so different , and why the game developers do not improve the experience so more people can be attracted to this game ?

I just dont know and like to know more through the responses

Edited July 22, 2022 by SuraCiel

[Rolig Loon]

50 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Just so you understand, very few people on the forum will respond - so you may want to contact all your friends in Second Life, bug people, etc. 

That's true, and it leads to another concern.  I'm mildly surprised that nobody has yet posted another of the standard reactions to requests like this: "Please remember that the people who read and respond in the SL forums are a very small, non-representative subset of SL residents writ large."  It's important to raise that caution. The regulars here in the forums are more vocal and, generally, are more likely to be long-term participants in SL than average.  I'd be hard pressed to find data to support my guess, but I am confident that forum regulars are older than most as well.  They are certainly an articulate lot.  Going further out on a limb, I believe that gamers are underrepresented here, compared to the in-world population.  I could go on with other unsubstantiated (but brilliant!) guesses, but my basic point is that the answers you get from forumites will almost certainly give you a biased view of what SL residents value. You'll have no way to assess that bias without also doing research in world.