development SL Viewer for 2022 Chromebook

[SolomonHawk]

I've read posts dating back to 2018 (possibly older) which basically said you can't run SL on a Chromebook. The most polite was simply, "No".

Besides the fact it struck me as hostile responses and "elitist", I have to say I'm not satisfied with the responses nor am I happy to know such condescending and elitist attitudes continue to exist in this present day and age.  I hoped those SL residents who demonstrated such appalling behavior would have been more helpful, but that was not the case.

One exception was someone who set it up to run on the Linux side of Chromebook with Firestorm being used intead of the default SL viewer. That post dated back to 2019 if I recall correctly. That person posted a video of the process on YouTube. Needless to say,  I could not find such helpful information in these forums.

Here is my point.

I seriously believe the developers are far more talented than they are given credit for.

It is 2022 now and hearing about the migration to cloud raises more interest in relation to Chromebook since they usually rely upon cloud storage. 

I think this is a prime opportunity for the developers to create a viewer that can be run on a Chromebook (Google Chrome OS) without all the hassle of setting up a different resident OS such as Linux. (No disrespect is intended toward Linux).

This is not for me specifically since I use Windows 11 on a custom built PC. 

It is however intended for my "Significant Other" since she is limited to a mobile phone and the new 2022 Chromebook she now has. We wish to share the experience of SL together which would provide us an avenue to date each other while we continue development our relationship. SL is the perfect platform for this.

I am certain there are many more people who would have more interest in SL if they were simply able to download a client specifically made for Chromebook.

Personally, I believe you can do it. I hope you will consider this. 

I'm just one of your clients who's been around since the early days of SL under the name of Dolph Gehlbard.

Edited May 13, 2022 by SolomonHawk

[MarissaOrloff]

A Chromebooks hardware does not have the horsepower needed to run Second Life. You can always try something like Speedlight or a text only viewer. 

[Jenna Huntsman]

1 hour ago, SolomonHawk said:

One exception was someone who set it up to run on the Linux side of Chromebook with Firestorm being used intead of the default SL viewer. That post dated back to 2019 if I recall correctly. That person posted a video of the process on YouTube. Needless to say,  I could not find such helpful information in these forums.

setting up a different resident OS such as Linux. (No disrespect is intended toward Linux).

This is essentially your only option, since Lumiya (A full 3D viewer for Android phones) is no longer maintained and isn't available on the Play Store.

As @MarissaOrloff said, the chances that Chromebook would even have the prerequisite horsepower to run a full 3D viewer (and for it to be a good experience, not 'will it boot?') is slim to none.

[Rowan Amore]

Since chromebooks are basically big phones...

 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

as others have said, the hardware layer on the chromebooks are not up to the task of running SL in an experience that would be enjoyable, we are talking maybe 3 to 5 fps, if that.  no pretty eye candy, no fancy rendering,   SL is user created unoptimized content, that chromebook would go "nope"  and takes its self back to the store for a refund.

 

 

[Kathrine Jansma]

According to some account on the CoolVLViewer forum for the ARM port, it ran on a chromebook style Mali T860 GPU with 5-10fps, so yes, probably not worth it.

http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2212&start=30#p10896

[SolomonHawk]

I'm not asking that the default SL viewer be run on a chromebook in consideration of its limitations.

I am saying the developers are talented enough to make a viewer that WILL run on Chromebook Exclusive of the default viewer.

This is in disregard to previous posts arguing that "it can't be done". I am not interested in "no".

I'm saying it can be done and it would be of their financial interest of potential income to be able to do it.

Edited May 14, 2022 by SolomonHawk

[panterapolnocy]

4 hours ago, SolomonHawk said:

I am saying the developers are talented enough to make a viewer that WILL run on Chromebook Exclusive of the default viewer. (...) I am not interested in "no".

But do they have time and resources to take care of yet another (non-gaming) platform, since they are already being stretched thin with their current projects?

4 hours ago, SolomonHawk said:

I'm saying it can be done and it would be of their financial interest of potential income to be able to do it.

Lab's viewpoint, from the newer https://modemworld.me/2022/04/01/vwbpe-2022-patch-linden-whats-up-at-the-lab/ :

Quote

Mobile / lightweight strategies are still very much part of the work that is on-going at the Lab.
    The dedicated Mobile offering (initially iOS) is still very much a focus.
    A streaming option is also being considered – but streaming is very much a moving target in terms of technology and capabilities, so this is very much a longer-term project. However:
        It potentially offers a higher-fidelity experience with graphics, etc.
        It is in active development and experimentation.
        Costs will be a factor, however, and such a service is unlikely to be something that would be folded-in to, say, some Premium subscription, simply because stream costs are so variable in terms of data load, etc.
It is hoped that in offering a mobile solution, LL will be able to increase SL’s exposure to audiences and help grow the user base.

And from the older  https://modemworld.me/2021/03/21/vwbpe-2021-grumpity-and-brett-linden/ :

Quote

Grumpity:
    LL is working towards a possible partnership that will allow for a streaming solution  for Second Life. This is not something that can be discussed in detail at present, but would love to talk more about it Soon™.
    In terms of mobile devices, the nature of SL means than any dedicated experience via a ‘phone is going to be less than ideal – ideally a keyboard and mouse are required, but it is being explored. [Again, the Lab has an active project to bring Second Life to both iOS and Android, initially as a basic communications tool.]
Brett: streaming is an area that has expanded over the last 12+ months, with multiple companies moving into the space, allowing dialogues to take place. Among other things, the Lab recognises the need to be on more lightweight client systems (such as Chromebook) when addressing areas such as education.

Answer: Wait for the Lab to make a mobile - Android - client to happen some day, so it could be booted under Chrome OS. Or get a Windows, Linux or Mac/iOS dedicated device. Chromebooks are too underpowered for a full OpenGL client running locally and streaming may be an option for the future. In the meantime you may try Speedlight on the Chromebook. See also:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-227245
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-231992

Edited May 14, 2022 by panterapolnocy

[SolomonHawk]

THAT is what I want to see.

It is with gratitude, I thank you for that information..

[SolomonHawk]

8 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Since chromebooks are basically big phones...

 

I get the distinct impression you don't use any current model of Chromebook. 

They are far more than "big phones", especially the more recent ones.

Edited May 14, 2022 by SolomonHawk

[Rowan Amore]

5 hours ago, SolomonHawk said:

I get the distinct impression you don't use any current model of Chromebook. 

They are far more than "big phones", especially the more recent ones.

My point being, a viewer designed for a mobile device might be your only option.

[SolomonHawk]

Understood. However these things are more than just mobile. There is a big difference.

This is why I am sure LL can come up with something specific for them.

[SolomonHawk]

For the sarcasm, keep laughing chuckles. We'll see who's laughing when it's done.

So just stay out of my topic from now on. 

This isn't your call on what you think will or won't work.

Edited May 14, 2022 by SolomonHawk

[Aishagain]

19 hours ago, SolomonHawk said:

I am not interested in "no".

Interesting philosophy.   I am not interested in the 200ft fall to the base of a cliff that faces me should I take another step forward.  Gravity and physics, however, are interested and they are the forces that pull me down to my death.

What part of "A Chromebook does not have the means to run anything resembling a viewer" do you not understand?

Edited May 14, 2022 by Aishagain

[Love Zhaoying]

Speedlight.io is a browser-based viewer, free, with some 3D rendering options. Works ok on my phone. Give it a try!

[Rowan Amore]

It's taken LL how long to make a mobile app?  Oh wait.  They havent...yet.  I'm sure a viewer for Chrome book is right around the corner.  Best of luck.

[MarissaOrloff]

8 hours ago, SolomonHawk said:

For the sarcasm, keep laughing chuckles. We'll see who's laughing when it's done.

So just stay out of my topic from now on. 

This isn't your call on what you think will or won't work.

You can always hire a developer to make a Chromebook viewer at your own expense. Also, you can submit a feature request jira directly to LL at https://jira.secondlife.com/ However, I am 99.999% positive LL will reject it because even a top end Chromebook uses a mobile Celeron processor or Arm (That's a major change to the code) that has integrated graphics that will share the pitiful 4GB of ram. Minimum spec for memory is 8GB and 16GB preferred especially if you have integrated graphics. Performance will be unusable even by LL's standard (which is very low) and LL has much bigger fish to fry right now and I do believe that they would not waste their already stretched resources on a project like this. In a few years who knows? But for now if you want a dedicated Chromebook viewer you will have to do it yourself.

Code for Firestorm: https://vcs.firestormviewer.org/

Code for LL's official viewer: https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer/src/master/

Edited May 15, 2022 by MarissaOrloff

[Love Zhaoying]

   Just checked, they sell Chromebooks as high as US$1700. At those prices, sure - you'd expect it to run "real" software - if you didn't know anything about Chromebooks.   
 But how would someone get fooled into buying a Chromebook that cost more than the average $200? And why would someone expect a $200 computer to run "real" software? 

[SolomonHawk]

I came here to leave a suggestion and offered my reasons for it. I respectfully requested of those who really know what they are doing to give it consideration. 

It certainly wasn't any childish demand.

 I did not come here to ask for opinions on whether or not it can be done.

I did not come here to ask for suggestions to fix a technical issue which I personally do not have.

I did not come here to ask for an education about Chromebooks.

I certainly didn't come here to be hammered with attitudes and honestly, I'm not surprised because it is typical,

I know all too well SL is primarily user generated content. I've done my share of it well over 10 years whether you believe me or not. Probably longer than some of you and it wasn't to make a living off of it.as some of you. Trust me, I'm no threat to you.

I don't profess to know everything, so don't make the mistake of assuming I came here with that mentality.

I do know however, what data is and how it is transmitted and received.

I do know the difference between cable, fiber optic, DSL, Satellite and Wi-Fi. (No point in mentioning dial-up). I have experienced them all.

Imagine where you would be right now if SL didn't grow or change since it began.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by SolomonHawk

[Rowan Amore]

You posted in a public forum.  You can't control how the public responds.  

3 hours ago, SolomonHawk said:

I respectfully requested of those who really know what they are doing to give it consideration. 

Again, it's a public (resident) forum and not always visited by those who could give it consideration (Lindens).  As suggested, file a jira.  At least that IS seen by Linden employees.

[SolomonHawk]

28 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You posted in a public forum.  You can't control how the public responds.  

Again, it's a public (resident) forum and not always visited by those who could give it consideration (Lindens).  As suggested, file a jira.  At least that IS seen by Linden employees.

Look.

You didn't make these forums and you don't own them either.

You don't have exclusive right or control over who visits this forum.

If I ever discover a cataclysmic issue that will most likely affect a majority of residents, I'll file a report where it belongs through the appropriate channels.

Now, please. Stop trolling me.

Edited May 15, 2022 by SolomonHawk

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, SolomonHawk said:

I'll file a report where it belongs through the appropriate channels.

JIRA tickets are used for feature requests, FYI. A new viewer is essentially a "feature request". Linden Labs is one of those "right people" if you want a viewer for Chromebook. Linden Labs is most likely to respond to a "feature request" originating from a JIRA ticket. 
 

You are just as likely to get a viewer for Chromebook if Linden Labs creates the viewer, as if a third-party viewer project creates it.  This is why we are suggesting you "file a ticket". Linden Labs will not consider creating a viewer for Chromebook based on requests in these Forums.  
 

Good luck!

[Rowan Amore]

16 minutes ago, SolomonHawk said:

You didn't make these forums and you don't own them either.

You don't have exclusive right or control over this forum.

Neither do you, I might add.  Again and again, it's a RESIDENT'S forum.  The people who respond are RESIDENTS.  You can't control how anyone responds to your post.  Period.

 

17 minutes ago, SolomonHawk said:

If I ever discover a cataclysmic issue that will most likely affect a majority of residents, I'll file a report where it belongs through the appropriate channels

The Jira is also for New Feature requests, not just cataclysmic issues and the appropriate channel to use in this case.

 

[Qie Niangao]

On 5/13/2022 at 4:30 PM, SolomonHawk said:

This is not for me specifically since I use Windows 11 on a custom built PC. 

It is however intended for my "Significant Other" since she is limited to a mobile phone and the new 2022 Chromebook she now has. We wish to share the experience of SL together which would provide us an avenue to date each other while we continue development our relationship. SL is the perfect platform for this.

It might be worth filing a jira to get ChromeOS under consideration as a target port while they're working on mobile OSs. I'm not that confident of Chromebooks as heavy duty 3D gaming machines, but whatever stripped down experience the Lab has in mind for mobile might run very well on a modern Chromebook, and god knows Chromebooks are thick on the ground these days and many are at least as capable as the older, mid-range or worse Windows machines that are still running SL with all the knobs turned down. So yeah, maybe it will get some consideration.

Your report is interesting that somebody in the past got SL running on a Linux-booted Chromebook, instead of trying to port it to ChromeOS. This makes me suspect that a native ChromeOS viewer would be very difficult to achieve else it would be done already. Also, especially now, such a project might be shelved until some solution is found to the Mac-can't-OpenGL disaster, which solution might plausibly apply to a ChromeOS port, assuming it too lacks a compatible OpenGL. (Or maybe it has one, I have no idea. Never touched one of the things myself.)

Meanwhile, though, this "'Significant Other'" presumably doesn't live under the same roof—nor share a LAN—not just yet anyway, but I wonder if there's any way to remote a virtual screen from your machine to her Chromebook. It would be mighty laggy, and I don't even know where I'd start. Is there a way Chrome Remote Desktop could latch itself to a different desktop than the one you're using locally? Or does ChromeOS have an app that supports Windows Remote Desktop Protocol (and can RDP work on a different desktop, or is that some Server-licensed thing)? Or splashtop? Or vnc? (Some of these might be easier or harder to use outside the LAN's local IP address assignments.)

As I said, it's pretty obvious this would be laggy, so maybe nobody has even tried.

[MarissaOrloff]

1 hour ago, SolomonHawk said:

Now, please. Stop trolling me.

We have all given you suggestions on how to properly request this viewer yet you refuse to follow them. What are you really asking for or wanting from this thread?

Edited May 15, 2022 by MarissaOrloff