Recommending Male Mesh Bodies...

[Catrie]

17 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

In my opinion, the history of "The Shops," the store behind the old "The Mesh Project" (TMP) mesh bodies and heads and the new "Legacy" mesh bodies, is often brought up without a lot of nuance.

If it helps, I've spoken to a current Legacy CSR.  The group behind Legacy do not include any that was part of the TMP debacle, when it happened. 

Also, I'm not sure if anyone has linked this, but have you checked out the Virtual Bloke blog?  Skell has information on the different bodies, including the Kario. 

[Echelon Alcott]

39 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

Thanks so much to everyone for your replies thus far!  I feel a lot more secure about my recommendation. As it stands, I have identified three primary criteria when recommending a male mesh body to a new user:

1. Price

2. Ease of Use

3. Third-Party Support

 

That is my thinking as well. Someone who is new to SL and / or Mesh Bodies probably shouldn't invest that heavily at first.  I hope that Belleza decides to keep the Jake body at L$ 1,500. At that price point, it really does function as a great introduction to the landscape of mesh bodies for male avatars.

 

Agreed. To echo @Echelon Alcott The price point is primary reason I recommend it. And I am glad you brought up the point about the hands. Even after the v.3 update, there are still animation issues with the hands. I always stress that the Belleza Jake body HAS to be paired with either a Bento AO or a Bento Hand Animator.

 

In my opinion, the history of "The Shops," the store behind the old "The Mesh Project" (TMP) mesh bodies and heads and the new "Legacy" mesh bodies, is often brought up without a lot of nuance.  I don't want to get to deep into it, because I think it's beyond the scope of this reply. To be brief, while I whole-heartedly agree with a lot of the criticism that The Shops get, there are important details that often get obscured by strong opinions.

To your second point, "Ease of Use," is so very important; specially for a new user. The new BOM version of the Belleza Jake body is so easy to use, you just throw it on, no need to activate BOM. In addition, the HUD is pretty straight forward as well.

 

I've personally never had any neck issues with the male Legacy bodies.

As for the new Kario body, I am unfamiliar with it. I do want to get the DEMO and see what it can do. At this point in time, however, I would not recommend it to new user because of its current lack of third-party support. But who knows, this may change in the future.

I agree with your balanced assessment, Orion. I also share the view to re-evaluate recommending Kario once there is proper clothing support for this new body. In past threads in this forum, a lot of hate has been thrown at Kario, which I personally find excessively harsh. But some people have very strong opinions.

[Maitimo]

45 minutes ago, Echelon Alcott said:

I agree with your balanced assessment, Orion. I also share the view to re-evaluate recommending Kario once there is proper clothing support for this new body. In past threads in this forum, a lot of hate has been thrown at Kario, which I personally find excessively harsh. But some people have very strong opinions.

Kario, like Kupra, is a very niche body. It's likely to appeal strongly to former Niramyth users (or would-be users) but few others. I've already seen a couple of them "out in the wild" and whilst they are huge (not just bulky but also very much taller than average), I don't think they are as awful looking as some have said. They're certainly several orders of magnitude better-looking than Niramyth. But the average sort of guy is not going to want that kind of look and I'd recommend it only to someone who has specified that they want a bodybuilder physique.

[Marianne Little]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

They had either the free version when they started or the paid for beta version which was 5000L.  The paid for version did have alpha cuts and layers.  

 They had the Free one, then Standard, Basic and DeLuxe. 4 (male) bodies. And they did not have the same type for male and female bodies. For the female, the body below DeLuxe had an alpha HUD included. For the males, only DeLuxe had the alpha HUD. For all I know, the females had the free body and only two versions to pay for. 🙄

They had all these versions and I could swear that the DeLuxe male price was 10 K at some time. But I accept that I was wrong and remember 10 K because I bought head and body together. I had DeLuxe head and body, a male alt had Deluxe head and body, and a third alt had only the DeLuxe body. I had no middle priced versions.

And then all of the bodies cost 500 L 2018. Fact: the sale was not mentioned on their Facebook or Blog. Billy Beaverhausen was told by a friend, and started a series of posts named "What's eating TMP". And then, after a year of selling it for 500 L, they did a mini-update to Bento hands in 2019 and increased the price to 1950 L. This was done because they had promised 1 free update to those who bought the body earlier. With this mini-update they had fulfilled their promise and could start selling their new line of bodies, "Legacy". And when they introduced Legacy they renamed TMP to "Classic" and sold that one for 5000 ... "Only 2500 L" if you already owned the TMP DeLuxe. 🙄 Here is post #14 where Billy tells about how it was: https://billybeaverhausen.com/2019/05/05/whats-eating-tmp-14/

Since Billy buys the male body, he says that it is in one, not hands and feet separate. As far as I know, it is not so for the female bodies.

No one got any information before the landing point started to change and the Classic meshbody, formerly TMP, was moved to another landing point. After a while the Classic body became free. But for a while it was one Classic free body and one called "Classic Creative Edition" that had the pricetag 2500 L with a slash over and "0" Linden. 🙄 I don't know if they have a "Classic Creative Edition" now, or if it gone.

Uh, does any of this make sense? Not in hindsight, but they probably had reasons. This hullabaloo was it that angered people.

For a long time everyone spoke of the new line of bodies as "TMP Legacy" until it was made clear that the TMP name should not be used anymore, now it was only "Meshbody Legacy". Some of us that still used the TMP name to explain the history for Meshbody Legacy, even got IM's and was told to stop using "TMP".

I still love the look of the body, and I do not tell people "don't buy it". I say it can be hard on the system because it is so complex, and tell them about the HUD and stuff like that. Men in SL does not have tons of beautiful bodies. I must admit that based on the visuals only, the Male Legacy is best!

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Marianne Little
added about the classic creative edition

[Ajay McDowwll]

27 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

Kario, like Kupra, is a very niche body. It's likely to appeal strongly to former Niramyth users (or would-be users) but few others. I've already seen a couple of them "out in the wild" and whilst they are huge (not just bulky but also very much taller than average), I don't think they are as awful looking as some have said. They're certainly several orders of magnitude better-looking than Niramyth. But the average sort of guy is not going to want that kind of look and I'd recommend it only to someone who has specified that they want a bodybuilder physique.

My male alt has Kario, and the body can be distinctly different from the "Flex" version, which is the one Niramyth users would probably prefer.  I'm posting a picture of Forg in his "Fit" version of the body, which is decidedly not the "I Pick Things Up and Put Them Down" aesthetic.  So as far as the general conformation goes, it's really pretty flexible for a variety of appearances.

The issue I have with Kario is the current amount of clothing available isn't really sufficient, and the pants options available (be they leather, denim, swim trunks, sweats, whatever) have a  super distinct bulge in the groin for about 95% or more of those items available.  I mean, some is fine; most guys have that.  But it's absolutely absurd the level that's being made in the clothing.  I can't send him out in his Kario or it's going to look like he's totally on the prowl for some adult activity... and the poor lad gets none and never will

(Edited to add that the skin in this shot is actually for the "Flex" version of the body, not the "Fit", so the muscle striations are a bit more than usual.  But I don't have time to go inworld to get a new shot of him, so this is all I've got lol)

(Edited again to add a picture of him actually clothed in something that doesn't have the "bulge" and shows his general shape a bit better, without the outrageous "ripped" look of the skin)

Edited January 7, 2022 by Ajay McDowwll

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Catrie said:

If it helps, I've spoken to a current Legacy CSR.  The group behind Legacy do not include any that was part of the TMP debacle, when it happened. 

Also, I'm not sure if anyone has linked this, but have you checked out the Virtual Bloke blog?  Skell has information on the different bodies, including the Kario. 

Maybe it is so, but the location never changed place and is the store named "The Shops" still? It was when they started to sell Legacy. I have not been there since the "Stay at Home" gifts, that took place in 2020, right? So I may not be updated.

It is not easy for people to know the difference when they never change location and do not change store name.

[Orion Pastorelli]

6 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I still love the look of the body, and I do not tell people "don't buy it". I say it can be hard on the system because it is so complex, and tell them about the HUD and stuff like that. Men in SL does not have tons of beautiful bodies. I must admit that based on the visuals only, the Male Legacy is best!

You're not wrong about the system being so complex. The HUD is profoundly un-intuitive . I had to watch a video tutorial to find out how to put the body into BOM mode.

It. was. ridiculous.

It's price point and complicated HUD are the two main reasons I would never recommend it to a new user.

That said... the body looks *****ing great. It's geometry and proportions are currently next to none in my opinion. Both Legacy male and Athletic.

[Ajay McDowwll]

5 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

That said... the body looks *****ing great. It's geometry and proportions are currently next to none in my opinion. Both Legacy male and Athletic.

What is the difference between the two?  I've seen both out there, but I can't figure out which one would be better of the other.  I'm sure it depends on one's personal aesthetic, but they feel kind of the same, one is just a bit more muscled?

[Marianne Little]

7 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

You're not wrong about the system being so complex. The HUD is profoundly un-intuitive . I had to watch a video tutorial to find out how to put the body into BOM mode.

It. was. ridiculous.

It's price point and complicated HUD are the two main reasons I would never recommend it to a new user.

That said... the body looks *****ing great. It's geometry and proportions are currently next to none in my opinion. Both Legacy male and Athletic.

If they reduced the price of their bodies a bit, they would be very popular. And that darn to heck HUD is so annoying. But to be fair, it was darn to heck difficult to turn on BoM on the updated Belleza too. I had to look for help in a post. BoM on by default when you unpack heads and bodies should be the standard.

[Orion Pastorelli]

16 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

If they reduced the price of their bodies a bit, they would be very popular. And that darn to heck HUD is so annoying. But to be fair, it was darn to heck difficult to turn on BoM on the updated Belleza too. I had to look for help in a post. BoM on by default when you unpack heads and bodies should be the standard.

I am genuinely surprise to hear this. If I remember correctly, there is a BOM version of the body in the folder. You just pop it on and BOM is already active.

 

[Modulated]

These days I use Jake almost exclusively, but there is a peeve. When it was updated to v3, the feet no longer fit some older versions of shoes made for the previous body. Personally I think SLINK's male body is one of the best but it has fallen out of favor, which is a shame.  Lastly, I do have Gianni but I rarely use it and the reason is that clothing from different makers do not layer or stack properly if you mix and match, something I rarely encounter with the Jake body.

Those Kario bodies well...meh it's not for me.  Its too over the top much like Aesthetic IMO. And for the person who said that the Legacy body people are not the TMP body people, that is horse manure. They are the same folks and I will not buy from them again.

[Demri Nova]

I went with Legacy and never looked back (Classic and Perky). I have never had issues with the HUD or anything else with Legacy. My partner has Legacy male Athletic and it looks amazing. Very realistic and you can tweak it a lot. He does not have a neckline because he uses BOM and his head and body blend seamlessly. 

It's always a crapshoot when you buy a virtual product. 5000L is $20 roughly? I will gamble with $20. All the clothes I have fit both Legacy and Maitreya so if something happens to Legacy and assuming Maitreya is still around, I will go back to Maitreya. Or buy a new body, whatever. I never like to look the same anyway.

Everything ends sooner or later so I enjoy my SL in the here and now.

BTW - that TMP body, how awful! I would have bought that thing anyway!

[Blaise Glendevon]

4 hours ago, Modulated said:

These days I use Jake almost exclusively, but there is a peeve. When it was updated to v3, the feet no longer fit some older versions of shoes made for the previous body.

You might need to adjust your foot sliders. One of the updates to Bento is that you can change your foot size to be more proportional to the body, but the pre-update feet were all the same size. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Blaise Glendevon

[steeljane42]

5 hours ago, Ajay McDowwll said:

What is the difference between the two?  I've seen both out there, but I can't figure out which one would be better of the other.  I'm sure it depends on one's personal aesthetic, but they feel kind of the same, one is just a bit more muscled?

Athletic is more muscular and doesn't fit some clothing made for normal legacy.

---

And not much to add to what already said, although it's always the matter of personal preferences and also activities. If someone wears suits and/or casual clothes most of the time, then bodies do get somewhat close as clothing not always follows body's traits and shape, and some need alpha cuts or alpha layer to fit at all. Toned down Gianni in suit and Jake in suit are pretty close look wise, but for clothing and times when body is more visible it's another story.

I don't have any male avatars, so it's just a side opinion, but out of the big 3 I like Legacy the most (despite all that history behind the TMP and more). Gianni is too bulky, and I never liked bubble butts on Belleza bodies, which Jake also has.

I wouldn't worry about web server part of tmp too much either. I've seen it going down for a bit, and the only part which stops working is the web part itself (one that requires media), tabs with alpha cuts and feet/hands poses and neck sizes don't need web server or media to work. Backup of an unpacked body with BoM activated (which requires web tab on their hud) is a good idea, though.

Don't get me wrong, it shouldn't be a thing to begin with, and company behind the bodies had a lot of bad history in the past and far from perfect now. For example dev kit for hands is still broken and the promised updated one is in the making for like a year+, and they never released dev kit for the nail appliers, so it's either a few provided colors or 3rd party mesh nails unlike maitreya/omega nail appliers. And it took them forever to drop ridiculous requirements about obtaining their kits.

But, eh, there's plenty content in SL that would either break completely or will have reduced functionality if creators stop supporting it. CasperSafe orb would be a good example. Stats, visitors tracking and logs are only available via casperpanel, so if it ever goes down temporarily or forever, then while orb will continue to work it won't have those functions. But such potential downside is not much compared to its upsides.

[Modulated]

On 1/7/2022 at 4:31 PM, Blaise Glendevon said:

You might need to adjust your foot sliders. One of the updates to Bento is that you can change your foot size to be more proportional to the body, but the pre-update feet were all the same size. 

I don't think they were the same size, because no matter how I edit them for some shoes, the tops of the feet stick out of the shoe.

[Echelon Alcott]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:33 PM, Modulated said:

I don't think they were the same size, because no matter how I edit them for some shoes, the tops of the feet stick out of the shoe.

If you are using BOM, wear an alpha layer to hide the feet. Alternatively, if not BOM activated, use the HUD to hide the feet.

In my outfits, I usually include the alpha layers to hide the body where needed.

[Modulated]

17 minutes ago, Echelon Alcott said:

If you are using BOM, wear an alpha layer to hide the feet. Alternatively, if not BOM activated, use the HUD to hide the feet.

In my outfits, I usually include the alpha layers to hide the body where needed.

That's nice but how does that work with sandals? It doesn't. I would like to know why they changed the feet, it seems unnecessary.

[Blaise Glendevon]

8 minutes ago, Modulated said:

That's nice but how does that work with sandals? It doesn't. I would like to know why they changed the feet, it seems unnecessary.

Check to see whether or not there is a copy of the body with a different foot rotation. The original Jake had different feet and a patch previous to the most current one changed them a bit. 

Also, joining the customer service discord might avail you of more answers. https://discord.gg/M8nxPsbesa

Edited January 10, 2022 by Blaise Glendevon

[Modulated]

13 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Check to see whether or not there is a copy of the body with a different foot rotation. The original Jake had different feet and a patch previous to the most current one changed them a bit. 

Also, joining the customer service discord might avail you of more answers. https://discord.gg/M8nxPsbesa

I looked through the v3 body folder and hud, and also got a redelivery, there is nothing in there showing a body with the previous feet or how to get it. Still checking.

[Blaise Glendevon]

8 minutes ago, Modulated said:

I looked through the v3 body folder and hud, and also got a redelivery, there is nothing in there showing a body with the previous feet or how to get it. Still checking.

You should consult the discord, then.

[Maitimo]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:38 PM, Echelon Alcott said:

(on Legacy/TMP)

Are their HUDs the only ones (compared to Belleza and Signature) that work on an outside-of-SL server and can be killed at any moment? If so, then it is an even stronger reason to not recommend them.

Yes. All the others work solely in-world, including Signature and Belleza. Legacy is the only one that has this ridiculous server-side control.

[Echelon Alcott]

22 hours ago, Modulated said:

That's nice but how does that work with sandals? It doesn't. I would like to know why they changed the feet, it seems unnecessary.

Just wear socks and sandals. I hear it is very fashionable. 

[Gerco Zwiers]

I have both the Legacy M body and Gianni. When I am wearing Gianni, I have the feeling that I am wearing balloons around my legs and arms. It looks my arms get ripped of with some movements and dances. It is not perfect. The hud is very user friendly and there are a lot of clothes for available. The Legacy body looks better but it is not perfect too, it has the same issues with movements. The hud is sometimes laggy. So this body is not perfect too and expensive. I have tested the Davis body and the Belleza Jake body. 1500 is a good price for it. I saw some issues with the neck. The reason why I do not buy this body is that the body applier for my head doesn't look good, I have seen a good one at another shop, but my sl wife doesn't want I change. I understand. So I keep using Legacy and Gianni. The reason why I stay using Gianni is that some clothes do not fit good for Legacy while they are sold for the name of the body but I see compatibility issues.....