Time to ban all other security than Linden Homes security system?

[Nick0678]

8 hours ago, Annie Nova said:

And when you get banned for doing something against the TOS because you didn't have time to read it, you'll be the first one in here crying "omg, how could they ban me??" nuff said. i'm done.

Well if i get banned then i am banned, it IS  A GAME you know. Doesn't affect LIFE but so far one thing is certain Annie.. 12 YEARS passed since i registered and still here i am ..  You can do the reading part if you are so interested in reading stuff.  

I will still select Accept and click Close without reading a single paragraph.

Edited October 30, 2021 by Nick0678

[Marianne Little]

8 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

That's a bit dramatic don't you think? He's talking about the covenant for Bellisseria not the TOS which I'm sure he knows what not to violate. It's really just common sense.

Breaking the covenant is low risk since it has to be done over and over again before punishment. I have never heard about permanenent ban, not even a time limited ban. 

[Nick0678]

21 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Breaking the covenant is low risk since it has to be done over and over again before punishment. I have never heard about permanenent ban, not even a time limited ban. 

And you probably never will because someone who didn't read the covenant doesn't necessarily mean they will break the rules written in the covenant... or if they did read it that would prevent them from breaking them. Statistically speaking .. it really doesn't matter.

[Alwin Alcott]

10 hours ago, Annie Nova said:

because you didn't have time to read it

like in RL you'r supposed to know the rules, and even the law .. praticly impossible, but when going to court for a issue... bad luck because the judge has to take you as one that knows what's expected.

If you in SL don't have 4 minutes to read the covenant... one of the worst excuses to bring up.

[Nick0678]

3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

.one of the worst excuses to bring up.

Nah making excuses about being banned from a game is silly. You just close the application and go play Grand Theft Auto™/Fortnite™/whatever or go watch a movie at the cinema etc..

[Annie Nova]

4 hours ago, Nick0678 said:

Well if i get banned then i am banned, it IS  A GAME you know. Doesn't affect LIFE but so far one thing is certain Annie.. 12 YEARS passed since i registered and still here i am ..  You can do the reading part if you are so interested in reading stuff.  

I will still select Accept and click Close without reading a single paragraph.

Well, good for you

[Marianne Little]

I have been thinking, folks. And I have stepped back and admitted to myself that a ban on all other security will hit too many responsible security owners who use them the right way. I don't think I will say "Ban all security that is not Linden Home Security" anymore.

But, and here is the but: If the Bellisseria Community shall trust the covenant, the covenant must work and be enforced swift and correct on those who break it.

If an AR does not lead to action, people start to loose faith in ARs and can either say "I don't care, I waste my time, nothing will happen" or they get angry and say "If one AR does not help, maybe 5 ARs will help."

I read an excellent post in the Linden Home Security thread about how scripts could control and remove security that violate the community rules faster. (The last post as of now). I can not add anything that is better or smarter.

 

[Zada Bury]

I am part of the "Drivers of SL"-group and we have often drives ... and flights ... over the beautiful made ... and also created for such activities areas.

Sadly it's pretty often, we "crash" into more or less annoying security-orbs! Also on Bellisseria!

On Street-level, if you accidentally get off the track ... and also no matter, if you are in the allowed range of airspace, you get pop-ups for ...

• 30 seconds (fair, bit still a bit annoying, as you have to click away that ... even if you are already far away from that parcel),
• 15 seconds (so far I know the smallest allowed time-frame ... but sorry ... you first need to realize WHAT happen and WHERE you are and HOW TO get out of that .. so: Nutz!)
• and less, include 0-warning (which are NOT allowed on that LindenHomes) ... where such landowner fast can collect around 400+ ARs on a weekend

It also not matters if there is someone on the parcel yet (and maybe wishing for "privacy") or not ... really ... what should someone do? Carry the TV away???

 

If you not wanna have somebody (accidentally) bumping with a car on the parcel, place an invisible wall / prim around it ... nobody will complain and it's an easy solution.

If you fear for your privacy ... nobody forces you to be in a Linden Home ... there are masses of parcels on the normal main-land available for low money and far away from neighbors ... in each maturity-rating (moderate, as the Linden Homes ... General without any kinky stuff ... or adult on Zindra, where you aren't limited) ... or even more privacy: An own island.

[Coffee Pancake]

Ban all 3rd party orbs everywhere.

Break scripted controls to eject avatars and manage ban lists, limit to Linden/mole created scripts.

Integrate these with parcel controls.

 

"Security" in SL has been a questionable industry since day one and the source of the worst privacy scandals. Red Zone didn't get banned because of how it operated, it got banned because they aggressively marketed that aspect and we screamed about it on the forums for months.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Coffee Pancake

[Marianne Little]

I don't know much, but one thing I know is that if LL does not enforce the Covenant, they can throw it away and let Bellisseria slowly grow into Mainland 2.0.

It was faster and more reliable when Bellisseria was smaller. Now I think it is too big for personal follow-up and removing illegal stuff. It was disheartening to read somewhere that it is even low platforms and skyboxes clearly visible from ground and high, full bright privacy fences that is only a flat texture. And full bright. Ugh.

As soon as residents or drivers/pilots saw that the security they AR'd two weeks ago is still merrily working, they think that more AR's will maybe help. 400 AR's in a weekend? Seriously? This must clog the system. And does it help?

People who follow rules may think that all other people will follow rules because of "spirit" "trust" "community", and other positive words that does nothing, only gives a warm, fuzzy feeling to the one uttering it. It does not affect those who don't care. The only thing that helps is to show them that your illegal stuff will be returned, and if you do it again, it will be returned again. And so fast that it will wear the offenders out, or they will get a stern talking to.

If LL does not have enough Moles to remove them, use scripts. I still think the scripted bot that can be feed the AR location, go to the parcel and control it, sounded great. A script can recognize another script, right? And a bot can be given power to return the object that tries to eject it. It would at least kill the security that gives less that 15 seconds warning.

22 hours ago, Zada Bury said:

I am part of the "Drivers of SL"-group and we have often drives ... and flights ... over the beautiful made ... and also created for such activities areas.

Sadly it's pretty often, we "crash" into more or less annoying security-orbs! Also on Bellisseria!

On Street-level, if you accidentally get off the track ... and also no matter, if you are in the allowed range of airspace, you get pop-ups for ...

• 30 seconds (fair, bit still a bit annoying, as you have to click away that ... even if you are already far away from that parcel),
• 15 seconds (so far I know the smallest allowed time-frame ... but sorry ... you first need to realize WHAT happen and WHERE you are and HOW TO get out of that .. so: Nutz!)
• and less, include 0-warning (which are NOT allowed on that LindenHomes) ... where such landowner fast can collect around 400+ ARs on a weekend

It also not matters if there is someone on the parcel yet (and maybe wishing for "privacy") or not ... really ... what should someone do? Carry the TV away???

 

If you not wanna have somebody (accidentally) bumping with a car on the parcel, place an invisible wall / prim around it ... nobody will complain and it's an easy solution.

If you fear for your privacy ... nobody forces you to be in a Linden Home ... there are masses of parcels on the normal main-land available for low money and far away from neighbors ... in each maturity-rating (moderate, as the Linden Homes ... General without any kinky stuff ... or adult on Zindra, where you aren't limited) ... or even more privacy: An own island.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

 

If LL does not have enough Moles to remove them, use scripts. I still think the scripted bot that can be feed the AR location, go to the parcel and control it, sounded great. A script can recognize another script, right? And a bot can be given power to return the object that tries to eject it. It would at least kill the security that gives less that 15 seconds warning.

 

A serverside fix is a better idea, bots would get circumvented with clever tricks.

If a script on a Belli region tries to eject, ban or tp home someone, and that script isn't Linden/Mole created, do nothing.

A vocal few will loudly protest that Linden Lab are infringing their freedom eagles or something, flounce .. and that will be the end of that.

Problem solved, zero on going support overhead, minimum effort.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 10/27/2021 at 3:23 PM, Marianne Little said:

While many are very enthusiastic and positive about the Bellisseria Trick and Treat event, other stories is told that are not so rosy red. Some places candy baskets is set out, but security is on. And it is security orbs that violate the rules for security orbs in Bellisseria. They ban immediately, they send people home, and they add names to a ban list.

Why would residents place out a candy basket when they don't want visitors? Who knows why people do things. Maybe they forgot they had on security. Maybe they thought people could stand outside on the sidewalk and click the bucket. Maybe they took the bucket as a free decoration... or maybe they they think it is hilarious to "trick" people in only to boot them.

When Linden Homes security system was first given to us, I was saying they were too LI heavy. I saved every Li I could, and I knew I could get a 1 Li security system.

But now I heard that the current version is only 1 Li, so that argument is no longer valid.

So what is the reason to not change the rule and say: "All residents in Bellisseria must use Linden Homes security. All other security systems is prohibited"?

People can not use security to send people home and with 0 warnings anymore. Is this the single reason for using malicious systems: The unlucky visitor must be sent home as punishment.

And I believe it would be easier to return other orbs, since moles does not have to check if they violate the rules. That they are placed out is a violation in itself. Click return and that is all.

Better idea: ban all security systems unless they are 500 m or higher in the sky.

This innovation was first conceived by Desmond Shang in Caledonia to solve the riddle of how to give tenants a nice experience flying around or exploring and how to give them privacy, too. I immediately copied his idea. The Lindens can tell Bellisseria what they wish, and could just ban all systems on the ground

[Zada Bury]

On 11/1/2021 at 9:01 AM, Marianne Little said:

[...]

As soon as residents or drivers/pilots saw that the security they AR'd two weeks ago is still merrily working, they think that more AR's will maybe help. 400 AR's in a weekend? Seriously? This must clog the system. And does it help?

[...]

If LL does not have enough Moles to remove them, use scripts. I still think the scripted bot that can be feed the AR location, go to the parcel and control it, sounded great. A script can recognize another script, right? And a bot can be given power to return the object that tries to eject it. It would at least kill the security that gives less that 15 seconds warning.

 

 

Sadly it takes often long, the "problem" is cleaned out.

About this it becomes also less people, that are eager to take the time to place an AR ... it's more the way, less people joining these events ... or the routes become altered short after them have been released.

It are not only the total overrated (by their owners ... again: "What should you do? Stealing the TV or the couch?") security-orbs ... it's also "Object not allowed" (errrm, they should be on that flight level ...?) or "Parcel full" that causes to become "Showstoppers".

 

It would pretty easy to check the ... major troublemakers. Every resident could do it even. It would need nearly no human power ... and "yes a bot would be the solution":

If some bot with a fixed path and pattern in a fixed height (allowed corridor) flying over the Sims ... one by one ... it can catch messages ... and other problems.

• Nothing happening? No entry in a list ...
• Some issue? Make a list entry.

It can also additional check for items that are near/on the parcel borders (Privacy-screens ... MAYBE) or that are outside of the parcel. Surely something to check later by a human.

If something happening (crash, TP home, Sim offline) ... make a list entry ... and hop to the next Sim and start the work again.

There are around (raw guessed) 3,000 Belli-Sims (no difference between residential and "decoration" or community.

 

Let's say, the bot moves slow ... to also catch sleepy systems ... 64 lines each Sim ... 12 or even 24 minutes for 1 Sim ... 9 hours a day (a bot don't need a lunch-break), if you wanna start it manually = 22 to 44 Sims the day (round 33 Sims then) ... 5 workdays = 165 Sims checked.
But it also can run 24 hours ... 24 hours = 1,440 minutes ... 24 minutes / 1 Sim = 60 Sim / full day.
7 days = 420 Sims ... or at least 5 work-days = 300 Sims
1 bot, 10 weeks ... all Bellisseria checked. But a RaspberryPi is cheap ... so you can easy run 10 bots ... or you doing it on a bigger machine.

Sure you can also doing other strategies ... e.g.: 1 fast moving bot (12 minutes/Sim) ... 1 slow moving bot (24 minutes) ... but that you only need to run over Sims, that wasn't cause already trouble.

And then someone get daily a list of things to check ... 1 hour, maybe 2 hours of human work ... which also saves a lot of "cluttered" ARs from everywhere and way more human time, if you not doing these checks.

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Zada Bury

[Zada Bury]

Ok, it becomes boring ...
... and hopefully some LL-employe realizing soon, this stuff need to be hunted down.

Option 1:
Linden Homes = the script-commands "Eject" and "Send home" ... maybe also "add to ban list" become disabled ... and only the LL-own system working.
The disable is easy, just depending on the kind of Sim ... to keep the own system working, is more difficult, maybe it need an "EjectAsGod"-function, so normal users can't use it and it's just integrated in the management-system for the homes, as you get also in some normal houses on the market.

Option 2:
Active "search and destroy".
But ... surprise ... them trying to trick you.

 

I was experience today some interesting (annoying) stuff:

It was an other "Drive" ... and I was mutter before the flight-part, the Linden-Homes are a mine-field.
Someone in the group was then comment "15 seconds should be enough to passing a parcel" ...
... so I was counting and my aircraft, a blimp, wasn't that fast ... and "yes, it need only 4-5 seconds for a square home on the land".
If I passing then a (more longer shaped) house-boat-parcel, it would be a bit longer trough the short sides (but way below 10 seconds) ... and even more short, if I enter and leaving at the long sides.
Should be fine, or?
Guess, who landed at home ... 🤮

So, I may guess, there are security-systems out, which fake a message of 15 seconds ...
... but counting more "1, 2, 15, FIRE!".

Sure, I can also argue "fair" and say: Hey, maybe the system start the counting the moment, you get 50 meters near the parcel ... or it not stopping the counting and some server-bug allow at the moment the TP-home to work, event he person isn't anymore on your parcel.
Anyway it is a massive showstopper, if you doing some allowed activities ... for which the area is also made ... and become tossed around, ejected and TP'd home.

 

Beside ...
... I was fill up a parcel to the brim ... took a vehicle ... and was able to passing over it with no problem ... and not ending at some Sim-ground.
I also cannot believe, the almost Linden-Homes have ... let's say 50-100 LI empty ... and "just 1 parcel" is filled that much, so you cannot passing over it.
If I need to guess, there are 2 options:
1) LL was programming accidentally some bug 
2) Some kind of "Hack" going around ... to have a security-system, that tossing the people out ... without the chance, them complain about it, because "Oh ... I was instantly ejected ... ah, ok, because the 'parcel was full' ... well that can happen, nothing to complain".

 

Very annoying!

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Zada Bury