Time to ban all other security than Linden Homes security system?

[Marianne Little]

While many are very enthusiastic and positive about the Bellisseria Trick and Treat event, other stories is told that are not so rosy red. Some places candy baskets is set out, but security is on. And it is security orbs that violate the rules for security orbs in Bellisseria. They ban immediately, they send people home, and they add names to a ban list.

Why would residents place out a candy basket when they don't want visitors? Who knows why people do things. Maybe they forgot they had on security. Maybe they thought people could stand outside on the sidewalk and click the bucket. Maybe they took the bucket as a free decoration... or maybe they they think it is hilarious to "trick" people in only to boot them.

When Linden Homes security system was first given to us, I was saying they were too LI heavy. I saved every Li I could, and I knew I could get a 1 Li security system.

But now I heard that the current version is only 1 Li, so that argument is no longer valid.

So what is the reason to not change the rule and say: "All residents in Bellisseria must use Linden Homes security. All other security systems is prohibited"?

People can not use security to send people home and with 0 warnings anymore. Is this the single reason for using malicious systems: The unlucky visitor must be sent home as punishment.

And I believe it would be easier to return other orbs, since moles does not have to check if they violate the rules. That they are placed out is a violation in itself. Click return and that is all.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Marianne Little

[TT120]

I agree.  I have been flying search patterns over Belli looking for buckets and have been insta TP'd home and banned 3 times so far.  It totally ruins my search pattern and I have to start all over.  Then there's the ones that boot you in 1 to 15 seconds.  Most of the time that's not enough for things to rez so I can figure out where the bucket is and/or get out of there before being booted.

It must be a funny joke to them to put out a bucket then boot people that try to get a candy from it.

[yestothis]

Time to remove bans from Linden Homes. Lindens own this land, and some residents use this as a way to ~make a statement~. Your ban list should not be a statement.

[Nika Talaj]

4 minutes ago, yestothis said:

Time to remove bans from Linden Homes. Lindens own this land, and some residents use this as a way to ~make a statement~. Your ban list should not be a statement.

My ban list is almost always empty.  But I say no to this.  People who are being harassed by other people should have the ability to ban them.

[Marianne Little]

People get the Linden Security for free and now it is only 1 Li.

So why not use it? Other orbs/safety could be returned with a prepared message that informs that the only legal security is Linden Homes Security system, and where to find it.

[Teresa Firelight]

I dont have any issue with people having orbs, or people who set a forced TP inside their house. But for the short duration of the hunt, if you both use an orb and have a forced TP to inside the house (esp with doors closed), please consider a longer delay on the orb so we have time to figure out how to get outside.

My fingers just are not fast enough to pancam and then TP to the street from inside the house in under 15 seconds. I would be very grateful if for the duration of the pumpkin hunt event you were to set it to at least 30 seconds OR temporarily turn off the forced TP to inside the house -- or at least leave an exit door open.

All the same, I would like thank you for putting out pumpkins for us to hunt. The more people who participate in putting out pumpkins, the more fun we all have.

[Marianne Little]

So you who know about scripts, is it possible to have a bot go through Linden Homes regions, find and return all security that is not Linden Homes? In case LH security is the only system allowed.

 

[Teresa Firelight]

I dont use an orb at my homes but I have a casper orb for my development area for my store. If I were to use an orb, I would prefer to use casper's, but I would set it according to the specifications that are laid out in the covenant. That way I would not have to manually add all of my alts to it because casper already knows them.

I dont really agree with the idea of limiting all or Bellisseria to use only the LH ones. However, since I dont use security orb, I dont really have a very strong of an opinion on the matter.

 

[Marianne Little]

3 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

I dont have any issue with people having orbs, or people who set a forced TP inside their house. But for the short duration of the hunt, if you both use an orb and have a forced TP to inside the house (esp with doors closed), please consider a longer delay on the orb so we have time to figure out how to get outside.

My fingers just are not fast enough to pancam and then TP to the street from inside the house in under 15 seconds. I would be very grateful if for the duration of the pumpkin hunt event you were to set it to at least 30 seconds OR temporarily turn off the forced TP to inside the house -- or at least leave an exit door open.

All the same, I would like thank you for putting out pumpkins for us to hunt. The more people who participate in putting out pumpkins, the more fun we all have.

I think it is not possible to reach people and inform them about what consequences it has, when they do this. It is always said how few that read the forum. Who would spread the word? The Bellisseria Citizens group? I have heard that it is not so many in that group either, and many mute group chat.

My main problem is with those who use illegal systems. To be sent out on the pavement is better than sent home.

You who use LH Security, is it possible to walk in again? Let us say you can't locate the candy in 15 seconds and are sent out of the parcel. Can you wait on the outside until you can see where it is, and run in and click? Or are you permanently refused entrance with LH Security?

The "5 m rule to get candy" is something that Lindens and Moles should change next time. How much more simple would that be, to stand on the outside after you have been booted once, and click. I would feel it rude to run in again to get the candy, even if the system gave me 15 seconds more for a next try.

[Nika Talaj]

7 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

So you who know about scripts, is it possible to have a bot go through Linden Homes regions, find and return all security that is not Linden Homes? In case LH security is the only system allowed.

I suggested a bot security enforcement scheme yesterday on Patch's security thread, as it happens.

Personally, I think the answer to your question is "not really".  You obviously cannot do it by the name of the object, tho you could probably catch a lot of them in a 1-time sweep for the most common products.  After that, folks would probably rename their orb "Fred's pillow". 

I don't believe LL can, or would want to, disable certain LSL commands from working in Belli. 

The only way I can think of to enforce is to actually encounter an illegal orb in action.  So you have a bot visit each parcel and wait for 16 seconds.  At least then you would catch people who had set their security orbs for too short a time.  If you wanted to test for other infractions, like height or force-TPs home after a minute or so, I still think the only way to do it is to visit the parcel.  That's why I proposed just visiting parcels that have been AR'd.  Otherwise, visiting every parcel in Belli is a pretty invasive move that I doubt LL would want to do.

If the above is true, enforcing a ban on non-Linden security devices is the same problem as enforcing the current rules.   Yes, your ban is easier to communicate, but let's face it.  Folks who have their third party orbs violating the covenant probably do not care what the rules are.  They may not even be aware that there ARE rules in Linden Homes.

I'd be interested in hearing from other scripters who think they have a way to enforce your ban, though!

[LittleMe Jewell]

34 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

You who use LH Security, is it possible to walk in again? Let us say you can't locate the candy in 15 seconds and are sent out of the parcel. Can you wait on the outside until you can see where it is, and run in and click? Or are you permanently refused entrance with LH Security?

The only way you would not be able to get back onto the parcel is if the security system automatically added you to a ban list -- and that is also against the covenant.

So, assuming they are using the system properly, you could wait on the sidewalk until things rez and then go click the pumpkin within the 15 seconds.  I had to do that a lot yesterday, but other than that, I haven't really had any issues with the various security systems.

[Mollymews]

30 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

The only way I can think of to enforce is to actually encounter an illegal orb in action.  So you have a bot visit each parcel and wait for 16 seconds.  At least then you would catch people who had set their security orbs for too short a time.  If you wanted to test for other infractions, like height or force-TPs home after a minute or so, I still think the only way to do it is to visit the parcel.  That's why I proposed just visiting parcels that have been AR'd.  Otherwise, visiting every parcel in Belli is a pretty invasive move that I doubt LL would want to do.

on how it might work

the orb hunter bot would have to have estate manager status.  So that  a parcel ban (as opposed to a orb ban) has no effect on the bot

so if it was to be done by Linden

AR comes in. Parcel location pulled from AR and added to hunter bot work list.  Bot periodically gets the list. Bot goes to parcel, waits for 16 seconds, if orb tries to teleport or eject bot, bot zaps (returns orb). Bot can also do height check as well

parcel owner will get the notification:  YourOrb returned by ZapYourNawtiOrb Linden

the zap is noted in the work list.  Other Support process monitors how many times the orb has been zapped. After X times then Friendly greetings from YouAboutToWinAHoliday Linden. Next time you do this then your winning holiday will come true

i am not exactly sure, but I don't think a Linden account can be ejected or sent home

Edited October 27, 2021 by Mollymews
typss

[TT120]

If you don't want people on your property, don't put out a freakin candy bucket!  It's that simple people.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

ZapYourNawtiOrb Linden

This belongs in the Lifestyles and Relationships section of the forums

2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

YouAboutToWinAHoliday Linden

A visit from this one might not be so bad if it was temporary. 

Permanentholiday Linden is not my friend.

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Permanentholiday Linden is not my friend.

i don't ever want this one to be my friend either. If don't ever want to get a Friendly Greetings from them

😸

[Max Nova]

People hunting down security systems for the sake of ARing people are starting to grief, harass and are becoming a general nuisance. 

Well stated in the Bellisseria Citizens group notice: 

"If you find a security system that follows covenant: move on. If it doesn't follow covenant, there are 3 things you can do: move on OR report it and move on (no bitching in chat necessary, there's been enough of that, thank you very much) OR send an IM to the owner and move on."

Some people are on a witch-hunt (no pun intended) looking for people to report and repeatedly teleporting into peoples homes to "test" the systems which tends to get them banned, justifiably so.

[Eowyn Southmoor]

I report every non-conforming Orb i come across in my travels (and as an avid pilot/sailor/driver I am travelling a lot). In the past few weeks I've ran into two orbs which instantly tp'ed me home and added me to the ban list instantly. Once you're on the ban list, I discovered that I couldn't use area search to locate the offending orb - it would not list any objects from the parcel owner. I thought that was strange, never encountered it before, and in the end I had to AR a sofa instead then explain the situation in the AR.

It's really not that difficult to follow the rules and using the LL security system is the best way to achieve that as it cannot be configured incorrectly. It's also less intrusive than 3rd party Orbs as you don't get that pop-up warning.

At the end of the day though it's up to the community as a whole to report (AR) these things cause if you just ignore it, then it will spread (like it is already doing), and at that point, like several people have pointed out in various threads, it's then a rapid descent into the chaos of mainland.

[Eirynne Sieyes]

I've ar'd 2 or 3 orbs that tp'd me home during Halloween. But generally I think the difficulties add to the challenge. If these things were banned, we'd find something else to get frustrated over and complain about - because that is what people do.

Plus, I think the ability to choose (and keep creators in business) is the way to go.

[Marianne Little]

4 hours ago, Max Nova said:

People hunting down security systems for the sake of ARing people are starting to grief, harass and are becoming a general nuisance. 

Well stated in the Bellisseria Citizens group notice: 

"If you find a security system that follows covenant: move on. If it doesn't follow covenant, there are 3 things you can do: move on OR report it and move on (no bitching in chat necessary, there's been enough of that, thank you very much) OR send an IM to the owner and move on."

Some people are on a witch-hunt (no pun intended) looking for people to report and repeatedly teleporting into peoples homes to "test" the systems which tends to get them banned, justifiably so.

Talk about turning things upside-down. You are aware that the people I talk about have actively gone to get a candy bucket and placed it on their parcel? They also have a security system that break LL covenant.

These people want others to come to their candy bucket, what else is their motivation?

And you - bless you - want it to be a hunt for those poor innocent owners of illegit security systems. 😑

[Max Nova]

21 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Talk about turning things upside-down. You are aware that the people I talk about have actively gone to get a candy bucket and placed it on their parcel? They also have a security system that break LL covenant.

These people want others to come to their candy bucket, what else is their motivation?

And you - bless you - want it to be a hunt for those poor innocent owners of illegit security systems. 😑

Yes, I know what you were talking about. I have been ejected going for candy too but no big, I move on, it could be a mistake and perhaps it would be polite to message the owner and let them know first. I'm not the police, as the notice said, do as you wish.

My point was, a group of people were intentionally looking for security systems belonging to people NOT participating in the Halloween event, harassing people about security systems in general, even the LL systems and posting which home to flash mob next in group chat. Not cool, not cool at all. 

In the mean time, there is more chat about ARing people than the event itself. 

 

 

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Max Nova said:

Yes, I know what you were talking about. I have been ejected going for candy too but no big, I move on, it could be a mistake and perhaps it would be polite to message the owner and let them know first. I'm not the police, as the notice said, do as you wish.

My point was, a group of people were intentionally looking for security systems belonging to people NOT participating in the Halloween event, harassing people about security systems in general, even the LL systems and posting which home to flash mob next in group chat. Not cool, not cool at all. 

In the mean time, there is more chat about ARing people than the event itself. 

 

 

So you argument is:.. "My point was, a group of people were intentionally looking for security systems belonging to people NOT participating in the Halloween event, harassing people about security systems in general, even the LL systems and posting which home to flash mob next in group chat. Not cool, not cool at all. "

It is not harassment or a flash mob to encourage people to AR illegit security systems. When this happens, it is because the more ARs, the more likely it will be taken action. And they use the rules set by LL, AR the security. It is a community service, to get rid of the bad apples.

The illegit orbs are under fire now because of this event. When people sit at home and don't go out exploring, they do not encounter illegit security. The more people out and searching for candy, the more people will be exposed to 0 seconds, send home and banlist security. There is no hunting for security when they fly over a region. But they get angry, when they suddenly are sent home and want the security system that does not follow the covenant removed.

The way LL set the rules to win the prizes, is making people who really want that top prize stressed and more on edge when they search for candy. It was a great idea, but the top prize are impossible to win unless you are number 1-25. Are you number 26, no special super bear for you. The award is only for the top, no one knows how close they are to the top. If LL had set the goals so you got a prize when you found a fixed number of candy, it would be a clear goal to reach. Stress adds to anger and lashing out. If it is more talk about security than the hunt, it is because of this stress. No one know how many they compete against.

I am lucky that this contest does not interest me...

Edited October 28, 2021 by Marianne Little
added the part about a fixed number

[Max Nova]

@Marianne Little It is harassment when people keep teleporting into someones home multiple times to see what sort of security system they have when they can easily see it says " LH - Security System // V2.3.2: You are in a restricted area. Please leave within XX seconds." "LH - Security System // V2.3.2: Good bye!" 

But to keep going back and teleporting into the persons home over and over again because one simply does not like it, is harassment in my opinion. 

 

[Jaylinbridges]

10 hours ago, Max Nova said:

My point was, a group of people were intentionally looking for security systems belonging to people NOT participating in the Halloween event, harassing people about security systems in general, even the LL systems and posting which home to flash mob next in group chat. Not cool, not cool at all.

And what group chat did you see this happening, and what group of people are you talking about? The groups I monitor are moderated and would not allow what you are alleging to continue happening.  Was this some vigilante group from the mainland?

 

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

11 hours ago, Max Nova said:

@Marianne Little It is harassment when people keep teleporting into someones home multiple times to see what sort of security system they have when they can easily see it says " LH - Security System // V2.3.2: You are in a restricted area. Please leave within XX seconds." "LH - Security System // V2.3.2: Good bye!" 

But to keep going back and teleporting into the persons home over and over again because one simply does not like it, is harassment in my opinion. 

 

I don't think requiring someone to follow the rules when they choose to live in a neighborhood with an HOA is harassment.  The thing with the illegal orbs is it might be pure ignorance on the part of the account that has that parcel, but it is the responsibility of the account owner to know.

I've never seen or even heard of groups of vigilante avatars doing nothing but wandering Bellisserian neighborhoods looking for orbs that break the rules.   Where have you seen this?

I've seen plenty of people wandering around looking for candy buckets and finding themselves back home with no warning and then going back and reporting it with an AR.

If an account requires that kind of security,  then a home in Bellissaria is not a good fit and they should upgrade to the mainland where they have the right, the power, and the tools to accomplish that.

There will always be people petty and paranoid enough to manually fill a ban list just because they can.  That is their right and within the tools they have access to. There is a covenant.  If you (general "you") choose to not read it or follow it and your orb is reported, it's not on the reporting party to feel guilty for pointing it out.  Fix it or move.

 

[Max Nova]

5 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

And what group chat did you see this happening, and what group of people are you talking about? The groups I monitor are moderated and would not allow what you are alleging to continue happening.  Was this some vigilante group from the mainland?

 

 

2 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I've never seen or even heard of groups of vigilante avatars doing nothing but wandering Bellisserian neighborhoods looking for orbs that break the rules.   Where have you seen this?

Funny thing you should ask.... I woke up to this notice from Bellisseria Citizens this morning (please note the owner and admins of Bellisseria Citizens obviously DO NOT condone this behaviour).

" - If your hud shows less candies than you had, you'll get them back when you touch a new bucket. 
- If your bucket stops working, take it into your inventory and rez it. It'll fix itself. - If you find a security system that follows covenant: move on. If it doesn't follow covenant, there are 3 things you can do: move on OR report it and move on OR send an IM to the owner and move on. Please, do not post slurls in chat and complain to prevent people being harassed. Thank you."

 

I think that pretty much supports what I said and answers your question(s). I'm not disagreeing with you in principle, people who are breaking the LL covenant should be reported, if nothing else to  to keep Bellisseria from turning into mainland, however some folks have taken it upon themselves to become as you say "vigilantes" and are just looking for problems, that's the sort of thing that turns into a witch-hunt, it makes people uncomfortable when a group of people are roaming around looking to nitpick anything they don't like. As for the teleporting into peoples homes to test their security systems, over and over again, rather than happening upon them by chance is harassment in my opinion. 

In my experience 99% of the people in Bellisseria are following the covenant or at least trying to.