The Old Linden Homes Are Not Empty

[Prokofy Neva]

I think it's important to keep a focus on this topic that has been derailed elsewhere, and base it on actual facts and experiences inworld. And I hope to see people provide their actual facts from experience in this region, not their unrelated grievances.

First, the old Linden homes are not empty. I went on a Thursday night and counted like 32 green dots on 50 sims. I can only see about 50 sims or so, often less if there is other landscaping, at a time. I don't have the time to go block by block, but I can watch the blocks directly around me and maybe fly another 25 sims away and take a sample. So on a Friday, there were 40. That's a lot. That's more than the regular Mainland in most areas; it's even more than Bellisseria in points. Bellisseria tends to stay most crowded at the newest areas as people trade up for the newest. I know from my tenants that people get tired of the homes, dump them, come and put tier in my group in lieu of rent, or buy some land, dump that, go back to Belli when the fancy strikes them, etc. 

When I first came to Caspar, I thought it would be absolutely dead. I expected to find crashed autopilot pods, helicopters stuck in trees, cats under blankets, dead horses -- the usual Mainland fare, with sex beds up in the air only 30 meters as well, deployed by the inexperienced.

I found nothing of the kind. I found real green dots, and real tended gardens. In fact it occurred to me that because there isn't so much lush forestation as there is in Belli, even with less prims, people put out more of their own gardens which means it is more varied although not necessarily prettier.

I first wondered if I was seeing just bot farms or something, but when I looked on the mini-map, I saw real people's profile with convincing variable activity and age. Sometimes I would see empty houses, but dots, which led me to wonder if maybe they were in fact all Tiny Empires, but in my experience, you usually get clusters of Tiny, not just 2 or 3. And I realize that with few prims, people may just put up a skybox and call it a day.

Yes, you are struck by how little furnishing there is, but there are only 175 prims. It is a constant prim shaving effort, but that can be fun now and then.

I think I may be seeing more people than are the case in this particular area because it has those modern stone sort of FLW knock-off California type homes. If I fly over to Elderglen, I see nobody for miles.

Also, if you aren't looking at green dots on the mini map as distinct from the world map, and people have "avatars can see me" unchecked, you will think they are not home. Keep in mind that if people have 6 alts and they have all kinds of Linden homes, possibly including old ones, they may not come to them for many weeks.

I think it's safe to say that what is NOT present in the old Linden homes is the "commuuuunity" which enthralls users and thrills Lindens but which is something that realistically, only the very few with the patience, time, and talent to constantly organize their fun and other people's can really enjoy. One hundred percent of the time, when I am in my Bellisseria home decorating or making an installation, I see no other people; I hear no other people pass by. There are not even green dots. Nobody rides by and says hi -- I get that much more on the Mainland in fact. And that is true of old Linden Homes as well -- no chatting over the Mole hedges and borrowing a coffee pot. The difference is the groups, however. There aren't any old Linden Home groups that I'm aware of, but there are more than 100 Belli-related groups constantly chattering with parties and parades and house showings and new stamps.

So for Belli, for "other people" you have to join a dozen groups and then patiently sift through their constant chatter. The people in the old Linden homes are not newbies, and have plenty of groups; they are not putting out Linden library furniture of the sort I still see in Mainland today in fly-abouts -- they have the latest Dahlia or What's Next from this week's event or sale. But you'd be more likely to friend them at an unrelated group or activity not in Linden land than actually next door to you in your old Linden home.

So my working hypothesis is that these people, like me, use alts for business or to hold groups together or just merely to join the many sale groups out there, then they may not be willing to keep transferring to the main to make the purchase, or they are tired of slow loading inventory, so they just have this old Linden home as a kind of Manhattan Storage in a way, or a dressing room, or even a separate life, but only one of their lives. They're reluctant to let it go.

But I repeat -- this is my hypothesis, not my facts -- I don't know and nobody knows unless they speak up here from an old home or we poll old home owners -- and who has the time.

I think again, the first thing the Lindens should do is have a census. There is no census. They can't tell us how many people are in Bellisseria or old Linden because they themselves do not know and have said as much. That is, probably some engineer could take the coordinates of the grid and plot green dots or log-ins or whatever and come up with a number, but that number wouldn't factor out alts, and even if they ran this against IP addresses, it wouldn't be entirely accurate (although more useful than any techie will admit because since https especially, it seems to me IP addresses tend to be more unique than they used to be and it's not true that an entire building is sharing only one of them). 

But even if they only take a cross-cut sample of say 250 sims or something, this would help. And I think they should try to solicit feedback, not from the forums, where there is both too much rage and too much adulation of the Moles and Lindens for creating these virtual homes. But in simple online polls or email solicitations from premium account holders. 

I had never lived in the "norm" homes of old Linden home land before; I was only in Elderglen. I rapidly cycled through about 6 other houses that I disliked so much I quickly left, i.e. A-frames, Asian, etc. It's only now determined to stay in one until the GAME OVER sign lights up in the sky, in a modern stone one, that I am happy with it and see its many possibilities and understand its charms more. For one, the sandboxes, which I go to daily, are right next to my home. I never noticed that before at all. I happened to get an LH right next to my favourite sandboxes practically. For two, one of my favourite Linden builds and quests is there, the dragon caves, which I have traveled again, and I found another cave quest (or related one) which I  have not solved yet and remain stumped on, that consists of various messages in places. I find this sort of Linden game way more fun than the Glytches and the rocks falling on me and being killed in the cornfield over and over again. Sadly they don't do many of these, and I can understand why -- they are hard work, I do them myself at my level.

There are no sandboxes near Bellisseria, it would kill the buzz, and there are no big Linden builds or games -- I guess they tried that in Horizons and it didn't go over so well. I think likely most people do NOT want a Linden game/quest by them, although I think they must like the Mole parks. I never see anyone in them, however.

Another thing I actually like about the old Linden homes, as I've newly discovered, is that the vegetation is sparse and there are more clear areas of ground. I think that what happens on Mainland is that the original textures are perceived to be so awful that many people are covering them up with heavy amounts of terrain and mesh trees and bushes and it creates this overloaded feeling often. Yes, the houses seem crowded more next to each other, but they are surrounded by bigger emptier tracts. In Bellisseria, the Moles can make new ground textures now, but there's something about ground and grass in SL that never really works, no matter how much you fuss with it. Sometimes leaving it empty looks better. The trees are actually better than I remember. So I simply can't join the chorus calling this "ugly".

To be sure, it is not as beautiful. It is not as varied. And it's like going from black and white TV to colour TV or from your little home town to the big city in some ways. There is much more variety and many more things to do in Belli. All the same, I think it's worth hearing from people why they stay there. By all the logic of Lindens and their friends on the forums, the old Linden Homes now should be a total gulch now. Who wouldn't stampede to the new ones?! And yet, I am seeing ALL THESE PEOPLE. Why?

so to recap:

o They can't get into Bellisserian homes, they aren't available, they can't sit and refresh all day

o They only want to spend 512 in tier, the other 512 may be a Mainland home or store

o They like what they have and don't want to go into the unknown

o There is less lag because there's less content loaded

o With less prims, there isn't the strain of decoration and keeping up with the Joneses

o They haven't heard of Bellissesia

This last part may astound you who live and breathe it all day, but I myself was amazed when a long time friend from TSO and a tenant remarked to me when I mentioned my Bellisserian home that she had never heard of Bellisseria and had never visited the models at SL birthdays or the homes themselves.

How could this be? Because she long ago left the forums in disgust. Because she doesn't go to Linden things, she leads her own life, busy with her RL family and SL friends. She likes decorating her homes as they are and doesn't lift up her head. Long ago mesh destroyed her prim furniture and house business so she tends to feel burned by Linden activities. How would she ever heard unless she a) read the forums b) went to Linden talks. But these are highly specialized activities. The front page now shows all kinds of furries and aliens flying around mixed in with Steampunk and pouty models in their studios. None of it says "Bellisseria" in any way I can see. So again, how would you "just know"?

Another creative friend who has only Mainland properties says she isn't interested and hasn't really followed Bellisseria although she knew of its existence. Too many restrictions, too many things look the same, personalities dominating, etc.

Yet another person who was actually new and stumbled into my rentals had never heard of any of this business about homes and tier. I keep cards to explain all this to people because I think overall the world is better if everyone has a chance to try owning their own land. How could they have come through orientation and not heard about the fact that they could have a Linden home? Well, they aren't native English speakers, I don't know how all the other languages are doing, and frankly, not all orientations stick anywhere in any setting. I give people landmarks to my homes turned into galleries for them to see. One thing about Belli is you really don't have to worry that the view will have gone south because of some ugly build sprouting up -- it's managed. They can rent some very cheap cottage or skybox first then try their own ownership.

I *think* the Lindens have done emails touting their new Bellisserian homes to all premium customers, right? Maybe people don't read their mail. But maybe they need to do a mailing again. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Prokofy Neva

[Sister Nova]

There’s something to be said for simpler regulated landscape. I’m not a lover of crowds and activities, but I do love land and exploring it. I’ve not been to the old LH in quite some time, mainland and Bellisseria meet most of my needs more than adequately, but I still feel I’m missing… something.

Time to wake an alt, dress simply and take a stroll or ride around.  

[Maitimo]

There are a few reasons that someone may prefer an old Linden Home over a new one, even if they know about Bellisseria.

Bellisseria homes are still in too short a supply for the demand (except Chalets which no-one seems to like very much). Even campers are absent from the land page more often than not, and it seems likely that when they do appear, there's only one available. And lets face it; if it was abandoned, it's probably not in a great location.

Bellisseria regions are more laggy than old ones. The old Linden Homes are in almost-empty regions, the houses have very little in them. My typical FPS in Bellisseria is around 30. In the old Linden Home areas it can be up in the 70s or 80s or even more.

Some people like the quiet isolation of the older homes and the absence of any kind of community. They like to be left alone. If you're in a region with only a handful of occupied houses, that's nicer for some people.

I don't think that at this point there is any possibility of re-homing the residents of old Linden Homes.  They might be able to force everyone onto a single continent and scrap the other three, and they may be able to turn off the ability to select a new one when there are sufficient homes in Bellisseria. But I don't think it will ever be possible to get rid of them entirely.

I did like the Japanese ones, and I had one on at least two separate occasions.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I like the idea of consolidating the homes that are used into fewer regions.  It would save some of the amazing and unique artwork made by moles and Lindens for the future.  It could even create a tourist attraction of sorts.  I am not sure if homes can be moved with all the furnishings intact, but if I understand how landmarks work, it won't break the landmarks each resident uses.  The Lab would be able to reassign the landmark to a new parcel, right?  Someone explained it when a few regions were moved for Bellisseria.  

Then no one has to move if they like what they have and it won't matter why they want to stay. A win-win for the most part.

[Matthieu Quander]

The old Linden Homes regions didn't always allow for high FPS.  Having fewer residents and less objects to cause lag, along with being on servers in the cloud that perform better, have certainly improved things.  Of course, if the older regions are consolidated, performance may regress, but not likely to the level it was prior to Bellisseria's existence.  

There is no doubt that many residents who still live in the old regions do know about Bellisseria, and are choosing to live there for many of the reasons already given.  To add to one of those reasons, residents can combine a Bellisseria home with a Mainland parcel, but that can currently only be done if one opts for a camper, which as mentioned, are in short supply.  I think there needs to be at least one other 512 m² theme available in Bellisseria, as people like to have options.  I also think that for some, there is the sense that they can get away with activities that they can't in Bellisseria (breeding/farming, etc).  LL is already struggling to police Bellisseria, I can't imagine much, if any, time is being spent in the old regions, barring an AR for something particularly egregious.    

I also think that there are way more people living in the old regions who have no idea that Bellisseria exists than people think.  Many simply don't pay attention to the community forums or official Linden announcements, and just spend all of their SL time in their areas of interest, which may not include even thinking about that old Linden Home that they got with their premium account all those years ago.  Don't be fooled by the sparsity of green dots when viewing the old regions on a map.  A surprising number of homes are currently owned.    

Ultimately, it is up to LL whether to keep any of the old regions open.  As many reasons as have been given for keeping at least some of them open, there are likely just as many to close them, most having to do with saving money.   One thing to remember is that a premium account includes a Linden Home, depending on availability.  It does not guarantee a specific home, or that any particular theme will be available.  While many of us might feel a little sad to see them go, I don't personally believe that closing the old regions at some point would upset a significant number of customers to the extent that we would see mass premium account cancellations or people leaving SL entirely.  Thus, what is the downside to closing them from LL's perspective?  

We'll see what happens, but I don't think there is any immediate cause for concern.  The closing of any of the old residential regions, if it actually happens, is likely at least a year or two away, probably longer.  

[Coffee Pancake]

Calling it now.

The old Linden homes will be around forever .. just like those long defunct Linden malls.

[Maitimo]

35 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Calling it now.

The old Linden homes will be around forever .. just like those long defunct Linden malls.

I'm definitely inclined to agree. I don't think it's possible to build enough Bellisseria homes to meet demand, people just make more alts to fill them. (I will be guilty of that when the Fantasy homes come out; I'm not going to abandon my dream home!)

Edited July 27, 2021 by Maitimo

[yestothis]

10 minutes ago, Maitimo said:

I'm definitely inclined to agree. I don't think it's possible to build enough Bellisseria homes to meet demand, people just make more alts to fill them. (I will be guilty of that when the Fantasy homes come out; I'm not going to abandon my dream home!)

I agree that the old Linden Homes will always be around too.

But, I think we have already seen demand being met for some Linden homes theme. The chalets? That’s never gonna sell out. Log homes, and a few other themes are near the right level of demand too. 

[Maitimo]

2 hours ago, yestothis said:

I agree that the old Linden Homes will always be around too.

But, I think we have already seen demand being met for some Linden homes theme. The chalets? That’s never gonna sell out. Log homes, and a few other themes are near the right level of demand too. 

Log homes are close. based on the frequency I see them on the land page, they seem to be second after the chalets, but thats probably because there's about 5 times more log homes than there are of anything else.

[Matthieu Quander]

1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

Log homes are close. based on the frequency I see them on the land page, they seem to be second after the chalets, but thats probably because there's about 5 times more log homes than there are of anything else.

All Bellisseria home themes other than Chalets have been completely full at times within the past week.  Demand for some may wane as new themes are released, but I would not make that assumption.  

[Luzonica]

Last week I moved to an old Linden Home, a Loftroom in Meadowbrook. If I recall correctly this style used to be sold out when I joined SL, in fact my first Linden Home and where I lived the longest was a Tahoe in Pelican, next to the river.

Recently I have been moving frequently so Linden Homes are quite convenient to me. Of course I have heard of and even lived in Bellisseria, in the following themes: Traditional, Houseboat, Camper and Log Homes. I tried Chalets and Victorians too, but I can't make them work for me. My favorite ones are Traditional and Houseboats as they have one-story layouts easier to decorate. What made me drawback from Bellisseria is performance. 

Back to the Loftroom, I'm surprised how easy is to modify and decorate this particular model, the area looks nice and definitively I enjoy the good performance and minimal to none texture trashing. I used 125 prims for my decoration: 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Luzonica
spelling

[Always Incognito]

15 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:  

” also think that there are way more people living in the old regions who have no idea that Bellisseria exists than people think”……. ”Don't be fooled by the sparsity of green dots when viewing the old regions on a map.  A surprising number of homes are currently owned. ”

I think so too. A lot of ppl may just log in to their home, change clothes then TP out. They may not spend a lot of time in their home But its still important to them. Most of us dont want to be homeless. Either virtually or irl. Nice with a safe spot even if you dont spend much time there 🏡 I hope at least some old LH areas will remain ❤️

[Prokofy Neva]

9 hours ago, Luzonica said:

Last week I moved to an old Linden Home, a Loftroom in Meadowbrook. If I recall correctly this style used to be sold out when I joined SL, in fact my first Linden Home and where I lived the longest was a Tahoe in Pelican, next to the river.

Recently I have been moving frequently so Linden Homes are quite convenient to me. Of course I have heard of and even lived in Bellisseria, in the following themes: Traditional, Houseboat, Camper, Log Homes. I tried Chalets and Victorians too but I can't make them work for me. My favorite ones are Traditional and Houseboats as they have one-story layouts easier to decorate. What made me drawback from Bellisseria is performance. 

Back to the Loftroom, I'm surprised how easy is to modify and decorate this particular model, the area looks nice and definitively I enjoy the good performance and minimal to none texture trashing. I used 125 prims for my decoration: 

Wonderful decorating!

People want pools -- and this style of old house takes a pool very well.

[Prokofy Neva]

21 hours ago, yestothis said:

I agree that the old Linden Homes will always be around too.

But, I think we have already seen demand being met for some Linden homes theme. The chalets? That’s never gonna sell out. Log homes, and a few other themes are near the right level of demand too. 

I would have thought the chalets would have been popular. People love the alpine look and this type of home is all over the snow sims. Maybe the Lindens need to turn the ground texture to snow there to sell more.