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Anyone know of a Mesh head with a Barbara Streisand nose?


Semirans
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I've been using a system head with my Maitreya body because I can't find a Mesh head with a prominent nose.  I've tried adjusting the sliders on demos and heads that I've gotten (gifts or bought)  but I just can't get the look I want. It might be my inability to envision what the head might look like.  Also, none of the mesh head makers have profile shots for their heads so I have to get the demo and try it out.  Any suggestions?

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Ok, so 7 hours later I have a Genesis Lena head that looks very close to my system shaped head. The hardest part was trying to get the skins working. Genesis didn't have skins with freckles so I had to use the BOM feature which had its own set of issues (like why are the ears set so far back on the BOM version? So the head is bento.  Do I need to load a HUD for the face animations or do you activate it once and it works after that?

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17 hours ago, Semirans said:

Ok, so 7 hours later I have a Genesis Lena head that looks very close to my system shaped head. The hardest part was trying to get the skins working. Genesis didn't have skins with freckles so I had to use the BOM feature which had its own set of issues (like why are the ears set so far back on the BOM version? So the head is bento.  Do I need to load a HUD for the face animations or do you activate it once and it works after that?

Most heads have a separate HUD for the facial animations. You generally have to wear it for animations to work.

Edited by Nalates Urriah
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Thank you very much!  I now have a mesh head that looks the way I wanted it to.  Still have that fricken neck seam and I've tried about a dozen different skins (including the skinpack from the head maker. Very very happy with the mesh head though.

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3 hours ago, Semirans said:

Thank you very much!  I now have a mesh head that looks the way I wanted it to.  Still have that fricken neck seam and I've tried about a dozen different skins (including the skinpack from the head maker. Very very happy with the mesh head though.

I'm glad you are happy. I was feeling guilty for a while, thinking I suggested a too-old head. I used to read Strawberry Singh's blog before she became Strawberry Linden, and some things stuck, even after years.

But the years go by, and I had no idea if Genesis is "wearable" or if they are hopelessly outdated. Or if they will be upgraded with that universal neckfit. (probably not) But I hoped you would demo it and find out if it as for you.

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Marianne, it was PERFECT.  There were some glitches that because it didn't understand some of the instructions made the set up take much longer. I expect that when I try new things. I'm hoping the Maker will put out some more bento huds to go with their heads or maybe some skins with freckles, but if they don't I am really happy with the way the head was able to be shaped almost perfectly.  As a side note, what is the thing about needed to use the default shape with the head or that you might "break the head" if the shape you load to start with is too odd?  Can you really "break" the mesh head?

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4 hours ago, Semirans said:

  Can you really "break" the mesh head?

They just mean the head will look ugly since a typical shape made for a non-mesh face can distort a mesh head. It won't break anything permanently and as soon as you modify your shape or change to one that was made for the head, the head will look as it should.

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On 2/12/2021 at 10:46 PM, Semirans said:

Marianne, it was PERFECT.  There were some glitches that because it didn't understand some of the instructions made the set up take much longer. I expect that when I try new things. I'm hoping the Maker will put out some more bento huds to go with their heads or maybe some skins with freckles, but if they don't I am really happy with the way the head was able to be shaped almost perfectly.  As a side note, what is the thing about needed to use the default shape with the head or that you might "break the head" if the shape you load to start with is too odd?  Can you really "break" the mesh head?

The mesh head is rigged to the facial bones differently than the default shape. So when I take off the mesh head, I look ugly. That does not mean the head is broken. Wear another shape, or go into appearance and edit it, and it looks good again

I do not think I have used "broken" in the thread, and I have skimmed through replies and not seen "broken".

When a head is 2-3 years old, not many head designers go back and update them. So new functions may not be added, as the universal neck.

Maybe the body setting can help. I do not know if you have the latest version of Maitreya. If not, get a redelivery. It should be 5.3 now, unless I missed a release. Type 1 is for head that has started to use the new neck. Type 2 is for older heads. Maybe the body is set to Type 1 by default, and you need to change it.

When I think about a "broken" something, I usually mean that the creator has left SL and the scripts has stopped working. When something is not updated to implement new things like the universal neck, it is the designers choice to do or not do it... if he/she will say it is too much work and makes new heads instead. The head is still working as intended when it was made.

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On 2/12/2021 at 5:10 PM, Semirans said:

Still have that fricken neck seam and I've tried about a dozen different skins (including the skinpack from the head maker.

On 2/12/2021 at 9:46 PM, Semirans said:

As a side note, what is the thing about needed to use the default shape with the head or that you might "break the head" if the shape you load to start with is too odd?  Can you really "break" the mesh head?

I'm a CSR and manager for a mesh head creator (although not the brand that you have opted for), so hopefully I can explain a few points raised in your posts here.

Neck seam

Your Maitreya Lara body has different neck size options on its hud: Type 1 and Type 2. Add the Lara body HUD and go into the Skin/Base tab to see them:

dc90ca27d3c2e4ae9fb08033c6ad099a.png

(If you don't see Type 1 and Type 2 there, and instead you see more numbers, then your body is an older version. Redeliver it to get the most up to date one.)

The two Type 1 options are for much newer mesh heads that feature the new 'universal neck' fit, while the two Type 2 options are for older mesh heads. Since your Genesis Lab mesh head is an older one, ensure that you're using one of the two Type 2 neck sizes. Try both of them to see which gives you the closest fit.

In order to minimise the neck seam after you've got as close a fit as you can with the actual mesh of the head and the body, you will need a BoM skin in the same skintone and from the same creator (or from two designers whose work is created to work together, e.g. Maitreya's included body skins match to head skins from Glam Affair).

A BoM skin may be an all-in-one on a system skin layer, or (more commonly) it may be a combination of:

  • head on the system skin and body on a tattoo layer
  • head on a tattoo layer and body on a system skin
  • head and body both on tattoo layers

Shapes and 'broken heads'

When we talk about 'breaking the mesh' we actually mean over-working the shape sliders beyond the point where the head's rigging can handle it and still look good.

For instance: you could push one slider to 0, and - separately - another slider on the same area of the face to 100, and although your head might look a bit odd the rigging could probably handle it. However, if you set both of those sliders to those values at the same time, the discrepancy between two vastly different slider values at the same location of the head might 'break' the mesh and result in weird spikes or glitches on the head.

All Bento mesh heads include a 'starter shape' that sets the ideal slider values for each of the head's sliders. Starting with those sliders you can then begin to customise the head and body settings and make it unique to you.

If you wear that starter shape and then remove your mesh head you'll be able to see just how distorted your system head is underneath it. Considering that your system head needs to look like that in order for your Bento mesh head to look good, imagine what that mesh head would look like if you wore it over your old, original system shape.

Hopefully that helps :)

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Wow, What a comprehensive and helpful response about the neck fix and breaking the mesh head.  I used the term "break and broken" because that is what I keep seeing mesh head designers warning will happen if you don't start with the default shape they provide.  

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1 hour ago, Semirans said:

Wow, What a comprehensive and helpful response about the neck fix and breaking the mesh head.  I used the term "break and broken" because that is what I keep seeing mesh head designers warning will happen if you don't start with the default shape they provide.  

Remember. Designers in SL may be very good 3D modelers. But one does not have to understand how SL's systems work to build models for SL. Often you'll hear "broke" when what is meant is more like 'won't look right'. They assume you know less than they do and they over simplify. Like setting a green vase under a red light, it no longer looks green. But, it isn't "broken".

Also, a designer does not have to be able to explain things well. It would help if they could. There are lots of people explaining things which the new expect to be right because the 'explainer' has been around for a long time or seems to be in some position of ...authority ...status  ...something. In SL that is very likely not the case. Be skeptical of what any of us tell you until you test it and find it does or doesn't work.

In the image below you can see my head deforming from what is desired. It isn't "broke" in any of the images. 'A' is my classic look, Classic head and Classic shape. 'B' is what happens when I add my mesh head and keep the Classic shape. 'D' is what happens when I add the mesh shape for that mesh head. 'E' is what my Classic head looks like while I wear the shape for the mesh head. Obviously nothing is broken. One just has to wear the matching shape for the head.

Heads-n-Shapes.thumb.jpg.d38b1be575ea8a687536ba9c370c93aa.jpg

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41 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Often you'll hear "broke" when what is meant is more like 'won't look right'. They assume you know less than they do and they over simplify.

41 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

There are lots of people explaining things which the new expect to be right because the 'explainer' has been around for a long time or seems to be in some position of ...authority ...status  ...something. In SL that is very likely not the case. Be skeptical of what any of us tell you until you test it and find it does or doesn't work.

It absolutely is possible to 'break' the mesh of a head by pushing it beyond the limits of what the rigging will tolerate. It's not a permanent thing, and it can be undone by reducing the extreme slider adjustments. I have seen it happen time and time again when people are trying to achieve certain looks. So, when I say that it's possible, it's possible. I deal with this day in and day out, so I can speak with some authority on the matter.

Here's an example:

Those irregular dents and spikes on the cheeks either side of the mouth? Those have happened because the mesh has been 'broken' by pushing a combination of sliders beyond what the rigging can tolerate while retaining a cohesive and unbroken shape.

For a further illustration, I've just deliberately 'broken' the mesh of my own head, by pushing the cheekbone sliders beyond the other slider settings around my eyes:

cb24f580e414f55f0a4d3638d7c2abf9.png

You can clearly see the breaks under my eyes, where the vertices of the upper cheeks break through into the vertices of the lower eyelids. That's what I mean when I refer to 'broken mesh'. To reverse it, all I need to do is lower that slider setting until the upper cheeks no longer break through the lower eyelids.

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17 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

It absolutely is possible to 'break' the mesh of a head by pushing it beyond the limits of what the rigging will tolerate. It's not a permanent thing, and it can be undone by reducing the extreme slider adjustments. I have seen it happen time and time again when people are trying to achieve certain looks. So, when I say that it's possible, it's possible. I deal with this day in and day out, so I can speak with some authority on the matter.

Here's an example:

Those irregular dents and spikes on the cheeks either side of the mouth? Those have happened because the mesh has been 'broken' by pushing a combination of sliders beyond what the rigging can tolerate while retaining a cohesive and unbroken shape.

For a further illustration, I've just deliberately 'broken' the mesh of my own head, by pushing the cheekbone sliders beyond the other slider settings around my eyes:

cb24f580e414f55f0a4d3638d7c2abf9.png

You can clearly see the breaks under my eyes, where the vertices of the upper cheeks break through into the vertices of the lower eyelids. That's what I mean when I refer to 'broken mesh'. To reverse it, all I need to do is lower that slider setting until the upper cheeks no longer break through the lower eyelids.

Fair enough.

I have a different concept of 'broke'. If changing a setting/slider makes it look right, it isn't broke - according to me. It was just poorly configured.

If a HUD stops working and nothing will get it going again and it has to be replaced, THAT is broke.

Taking a mesh head or body past what it is designed for which causes it to deform unpredictably or inconsistently is a type of break down... a failure in the design. I'll concede that is a type of breaking. I just doubt it is what most people would think of as being broke.

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8 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

If changing a setting/slider makes it look right, it isn't broke - according to me. It was just poorly configured.

9 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Taking a mesh head or body past what it is designed for which causes it to deform unpredictably or inconsistently is a type of break down... a failure in the design.

Same cheekbone slider. Default character test male avatar:

054f459778ace5a9482380e8b282c144.png

I guess the basic Linden avatars are also poorly configured design failures, too.

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1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

Same cheekbone slider. Default character test male avatar:

054f459778ace5a9482380e8b282c144.png

I guess the basic Linden avatars are also poorly configured design failures, too.

Not broken or designed badly at all.  It would seem to be the reason there are numerous mesh heads from a single creator.  Designed for different looks and why the OP was having trouble getting the nose she wanted.  I can't get my look with all heads unless I "break" the mesh.  If this were not the case, only one head should fit all.

Each head has a limit for a reason and you've illustrated it well.

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