Theresa Tennyson Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Phorumities said: They charge the first months RENT in advance, they aren't charging thousands of Lindens to be the owner of the parcel, and then charging first months rent. You are confusing the purchase price with rent. You own the parcel for free or one L, as opposed to paying thousands of L's to buy the parcel. Because the difference is if you "own" a private parcel you can live there until your rent runs out and you get kicked out, whereas if you "rent" it... Oh, wait... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: Because the difference is if you "own" a private parcel you can live there until your rent runs out and you get kicked out, whereas if you "rent" it... Oh, wait... Whereas if you own it as a friend of mine did and happen to not have the funds when LL takes your premium they lock your account as has recently happened to a friend of mine who forgot to cancel her account when she got laid off and can no longer log in to SL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 35 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: Because the difference is if you "own" a private parcel you can live there until your rent runs out and you get kicked out, whereas if you "rent" it... Oh, wait... Please lets not get back into the differences between rent and own. If you OWN land your name is set as owner in the parcel details. If you only rent land, the actual property owner is listed, and you have far more limited controls. Now you are just playing games, since you can't argue against my position any longer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomPixel Posted September 1, 2018 Author Share Posted September 1, 2018 34 minutes ago, KanryDrago said: Whereas if you own it as a friend of mine did and happen to not have the funds when LL takes your premium they lock your account as has recently happened to a friend of mine who forgot to cancel her account when she got laid off and can no longer log in to SL. However you can submit a support ticket and, so long as you have not done this previously, explain to the lindens that you are unable to afford it for xxx reason and would they Kindly just remove premium from the account and reactivate it. I have done it myself on two other accounts that I own. You can only do it once though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Question. Which is better? Large swaths of abandoned land just sitting there, or large swaths of abandoned land subdivided and set for sale at $1 L per parcel. If I was thinking about buying mainland, I'd love to wander around and pick a parcel I fancied, even if it was in the middle of a desolate plain, miles from anyone or any thing. Hey, that does sound good doesn't it? Better than cheek to jowl in an island estate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, PhantomPixel said: However you can submit a support ticket and, so long as you have not done this previously, explain to the lindens that you are unable to afford it for xxx reason and would they Kindly just remove premium from the account and reactivate it. I have done it myself on two other accounts that I own. You can only do it once though I believe the issue is they tried to take x$ for the sub and tier and until she pays that they wont unlock the account let alone drop her to non premium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Phorumities said: Question. Which is better? Large swaths of abandoned land just sitting there, or large swaths of abandoned land subdivided and set for sale at $1 L per parcel. If I was thinking about buying mainland, I'd love to wander around and pick a parcel I fancied, even if it was in the middle of a desolate plain, miles from anyone or any thing. Hey, that does sound good doesn't it? Better than cheek to jowl in an island estate. Not all private estates are cheek to jowl in fact most I have seen have spare plots on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 1 minute ago, KanryDrago said: Not all private estates are cheek to jowl in fact most I have seen have spare plots on. Oh I know, no one is at 100 % capacity these days, but at any time someone could rent the parcel beside yours and depending on the rules, add ban lines, rezz an ugly screen, build a 100 m tall land wall, and just generally be a nuisance. many private estates are a hot mess in one way or another, unless the covenants are very very strict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Just now, Phorumities said: Oh I know, no one is at 100 % capacity these days, but at any time someone could rent the parcel beside yours and depending on the rules, add ban lines, rezz an ugly screen, build a 100 m tall land wall, and just generally be a nuisance. many private estates are a hot mess in one way or another, unless the covenants are very very strict. probably so, mine has stayed just the way I like it however for 2 years, neighbours have come and gone and always got on fine with them. A little give and take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, KanryDrago said: probably so, mine has stayed just the way I like it however for 2 years, neighbours have come and gone and always got on fine with them. A little give and take Oh i'm the nicest neighbor you could ever have. I'd even invite you to my parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 Just now, Phorumities said: Oh i'm the nicest neighbor you could ever have. I'd even invite you to my parties Grins is that so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Phorumities said: Please lets not get back into the differences between rent and own. If you OWN land your name is set as owner in the parcel details. If you only rent land, the actual property owner is listed, and you have far more limited controls. Now you are just playing games, since you can't argue against my position any longer. Whoop. Dee. Doo. Can you sell it? If the estate owner wants you off of it can you do anything about it? If the real landowner doesn't pay the bills are you liable for it? With a private estate you generally pay a sum of Lindens in advance to use that "land" for a certain period of time. On the Mainland you begin using of that "land" and make the promise that you will eventually pay either real-world currency or an amount of real-world currency credit that you've established with Linden Lab. You also can transfer it for a fee or sublease it. In neither case do you "own" anything, of course; there's nothing to own. But the two relationships are fundamentally different. Edited September 1, 2018 by Theresa Tennyson 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, Phorumities said: Oh I know, no one is at 100 % capacity these days, but at any time someone could rent the parcel beside yours and depending on the rules, add ban lines, rezz an ugly screen, build a 100 m tall land wall, and just generally be a nuisance. many private estates are a hot mess in one way or another, unless the covenants are very very strict. I'm evidently terribly strict as I wouldn't allow any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: Whoop. Dee. Doo. Can you sell it? If the estate owner wants you off of it can you do anything about it? If the real landowner doesn't pay the bills are you liable for it? With a private estate you generally pay a sum of Lindens in advance to use that "land" for a certain period of time. On the Mainland you begin using of that "land" and make the promise that you will eventually pay either real-world currency or an amount of real-world currency credit that you've established with Linden Lab. You also can transfer it for a fee or sublease it. In neither case do you "own" anything, of course; there's nothing to own. But the two relationships are fundamentally different. No, they are quite the same from my end. I'm not sure why you insist there are such big differences between owning a mainland parcel and owning an estate parcel. And of course, in the end, you say they ARE the same. So which position should I argue against? p.s. I did sell an estate parcel one time, my neighbor wanted to expand, so he gave me 1000 L for my parcel. I sold him the land and we had the estate owner change the name on the rent box. Edited September 1, 2018 by Phorumities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, Phorumities said: No, they are quite the same from my end. I'm not sure why you insist there are such big differences between owning a mainland parcel and owning an estate parcel. And of course, in the end, you say they ARE the same. So which position should I argue against? Theresa Tennyson whispers, "You know those words? 'Fundamentally different'? The last ones I used? They mean 'not the same.''" There's another difference that you don't seem to realize. Any difference in "quality" between private parcels is built into the recurring fee. The recurring fee for mainland is a flat rate based on amount of land owned; any "quality" adjustment is built into the purchase price. 9 minutes ago, Phorumities said: p.s. I did sell an estate parcel one time, my neighbor wanted to expand, so he gave me 1000 L for my parcel. I sold him the land and we had the estate owner change the name on the rent box. If you "sold" it, why did the estate owner have to change the name on the rent box? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Phorumities said: No, they are quite the same from my end. I'm not sure why you insist there are such big differences between owning a mainland parcel and owning an estate parcel. My current expenses owning 1700+ sqm double prim plus a Linden home. I pay for two premium accounts annually - $144.00 minus the weekly stipend of 600L * 52 = 31,200 Lindens cashing out for $116. Making my grand total out of pocket expense $28.00 To rent the equivalent in private land at 300L per week *52 = 15,600 Lindens. Purchase price for that amount of Lindens is $63. Now you say but what about the upfront purchase price. In all my years of buying land and living on it and then deciding to upscale and move to better land I've never lost money on the land. In all cases I have at least broke even on the purchase price and in a few cases have made a nice little profit. So for me it's very clear. Economically it makes no sense for me to rent private land. Also, the added group space and priority teleport for going premium is HUGE. I also love having access to live chat when needed. Edited September 1, 2018 by Blush Bravin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: Theresa Tennyson whispers, "You know those words? 'Fundamentally different'? The last ones I used? They mean 'not the same.''" There's another difference that you don't seem to realize. Any difference in "quality" between private parcels is built into the recurring fee. The recurring fee for mainland is a flat rate based on amount of land owned; any "quality" adjustment is built into the purchase price. If you "sold" it, why did the estate owner have to change the name on the rent box? they changed the name on the rent box so the new OWNER could pay the rent. duh Edited September 1, 2018 by Phorumities added a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 36 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: My current expenses owning 1700+ sqm double prim plus a Linden home. I pay for two premium accounts annually - $144.00 minus the weekly stipend of 600L * 52 = 31,200 Lindens cashing out for $116. Making my grand total out of pocket expense $28.00 To rent the equivalent in private land at 300L per week *52 = 15,600 Lindens. Purchase price for that amount of Lindens is $63. Now you say but what about the upfront purchase price. In all my years of buying land and living on it and then deciding to upscale and move to better land I've never lost money on the land. In all cases I have at least broke even on the purchase price and in a few cases have made a nice little profit. So for me it's very clear. Economically it makes no sense for me to rent private land. Also, the added group space and priority teleport for going premium is HUGE. I also love having access to live chat when needed. Some of us like to own more than the free allowance of tier, and trying to sell a large parcel is a drawn out tiresome exercise. If I want to move, I don't want to wait for weeks trying to sell my current parcel. If all parcels were $1 L, i could just abandon my old one and buy the new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellestones Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 assuming the twin objectives - maintain a semblance of capital value in the parcel market - use entrant pricing to grow the tier-paying base a way to meet both objectives is for the parcel owner to lower the per sqm open, from L$1 per sqm to some lesser amount for land that takes longer to sell for LL-owned parcels, can automate this using the Reverse Auction model. A parcel goes to auction at L$1 per sqm open. When it attracts no bids, the parcel is sent back to auction at L$0.8 open. L$0.6 open, L$0.4 open, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellestones Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, Phorumities said: Some of us like to own more than the free allowance of tier, and trying to sell a large parcel is a drawn out tiresome exercise. If I want to move, I don't want to wait for weeks trying to sell my current parcel. If all parcels were $1 L, i could just abandon my old one and buy the new one. then best to advocate for a new Linden Homes-style sandbox continent with parcels devoid of content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ellestones said: assuming the twin objectives - maintain a semblance of capital value in the parcel market - use entrant pricing to grow the tier-paying base a way to meet both objectives is for the parcel owner to lower the per sqm open, from L$1 per sqm to some lesser amount for land that takes longer to sell for LL-owned parcels, can automate this using the Reverse Auction model. A parcel goes to auction at L$1 per sqm open. When it attracts no bids, the parcel is sent back to auction at L$0.8 open. L$0.6 open, L$0.4 open, etc I've actually bought land at auction at the opening bid of $0.5 L per sq m. The trick is finding a parcel that is attractive to you in some way, but would hold no interest to a flipper. Once you have a parcel, it's easy to add to it by getting LL to sell you additional pieces, since no one else would have the slightest interest in buying an odd shaped, unattractive parcel. I managed to buy my way 3/4 of the way across the sim, from the road to the sim boundary and now have ocean front against abandoned land that will probably never go up for sale. I can rezz a toobie on my land, then ride it down into the water and sail a good long way. Edited September 1, 2018 by Phorumities added a line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 22 minutes ago, Phorumities said: they changed the name on the rent box so the new OWNER could pay the rent. duh "Owner could pay the rent." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rent "Owners" don't "rent" what they "own." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellestones Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Phorumities said: I've actually bought land at auction at the opening bid of $0.5 L per sq m. The trick is finding a parcel that is attractive to you in some way, but would hold no interest to a flipper. you mention elsewhere that you don't see what you are advocating (L$1 per parcel regardless of location and size) as political. The role of "land flippers" (capital fluidity agents) is vital to sustaining capital values in a capital value market. To advocate for a market that is structured to reduce the market impact of capital fluidity agents is political 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said: "Owner could pay the rent." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rent "Owners" don't "rent" what they "own." The "about land" is identical for a mainland parcel or an estate parcel. In either case, I "own" the land, but as you said before no one really owns anything, it's all goes to rent on a server. Please stop playing your silly semantics games with me, you've gone far beyond being amusing to being tiresome. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted September 1, 2018 Share Posted September 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, ellestones said: you mention elsewhere that you don't see what you are advocating (L$1 per parcel regardless of location and size) as political. The role of "land flippers" (capital fluidity agents) is vital to sustaining capital values in a capital value market. To advocate for a market that is structured to reduce the market impact of capital fluidity agents is political We live inside a business, Second Life exists solely to make money for LL. I'm offering a suggestion of a way for LL to make MORE money. Feel free to put any political spin on it you wish if it makes you feel better, if it makes all this seem more "real" for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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