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sthashan

Problem with second life graphics

Question

I have no idea whats wrong with my second life.

Whenever i login, it appears as shown in the pic. I have tried everything suggested on the forums.
I updated my graphics driver.
I set my preferences to lowest as possible.
I have even changed viewers but nothing helped.
its the second time this problem showed up and the last time just switching from Second life viewer to Catznip viewer solved the problem. but this time nothing is helping.. can suggestion??SL.thumb.PNG.99e209e61797b6f646cf701d639bbcab.PNG

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2 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Coffee incorrectly says setting it too high sends packets faster than you computer can receive them. But, the max value, recommended by Firestorm peeps experience, is 1500. That hasn't changed because the data load problem is server side. At 1500 the servers can almost always keep up. Above 1500 and a busy server can get behind and the user sees problems.

You have it exactly backwards. Linden servers are not bandwidth or buffer constrained in the same way your domestic connection is, upstream UDP from you to the server is minuscule compared to the constant downstream UDP that can ramp up significantly depending on whats happening on the region with your avatar.

The SL client is a dumb terminal. It only knows what the servers explicitly tell it.

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Check if the problem is your ISP / router.

Perhaps a free trial to a VPN service, use SL over that, it if all works then you have your answer.

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Are you on Wifi ?

Clear the cache.

Have you tried switching your PC and router off for 10 .. 15 mins and then powering it all back on?

 

If this is happening with Catznip, IM me in world and send me the contents of Help > About - will be tomorrow sometime.

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20 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Are you on Wifi ?

Clear the cache.

Have you tried switching your PC and router off for 10 .. 15 mins and then powering it all back on?

 

If this is happening with Catznip, IM me in world and send me the contents of Help > About - will be tomorrow sometime.

Actually, atleast somethings were visible before clearing the cache. then i cleared it to fix it.. then this happened. and ofc i switched off the pc and router. its not like i keep them on all the time. I have been having this problem since last one week

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9 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

you could try giving some usefull information about your system and viewer, copy the specs from the  "about" tab in your viewer here, all whats important is mostly mentioned there.

Till now you only said it doesn't work... it's very difficult to only guess about it.

these are the specs

Catznip R12 - Dec 31 2017 12:50:12 (64bit) (Catznip Release)
Release Notes

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7500U CPU @ 2.70GHz (2903.99 MHz)
Memory: 12157 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 (Build 17134)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 940MX/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 24.21.13.9836
OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 398.36

Window size: 1366x705
Font Size Adjustment: 96pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 64m
Bandwidth: 500kbit/s
LOD factor: 1.125
Render quality: 0 / 7
Advanced Lighting Model: Disabled
Texture memory: 682MB
VFS (cache) creation time: July 23 2018 23:19:30

RestrainedLove API: RLV v3.1.4 / RLVa v2.1.0.43682
J2C Decoder Version: OpenJPEG runtime: 1.5.2
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.61
Dullahan: 1.1.820 / CEF: 3.3071.1634.g9cc59c8 / Chrome: 59
LibVLC Version: 2.2.4
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
July 23 2018 23:54:47

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You might try increasing your Maximum Bandwidth to 1000 kbit.sec.   At 500 kbit/sec, you may be throttling performance unnecessarily.  That graphics card is far from the best for SL, but it should be fine, especially considering your low draw distance and LOD factor, and the fact that you are not using ALM.  I assume that you have checked with the NVidia control panel to be sure that you are actually using the 940M card in SL instead of defaulting to the motherboard graphics chip.

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56 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

You might try increasing your Maximum Bandwidth to 1000 kbit.sec.   At 500 kbit/sec, you may be throttling performance unnecessarily.

The bandwidth setting only refers to UDP data, it has no effect on texture download speeds etc. Too high and the server sends packets faster than you can accept them, those packets are literally lost and your SL experience suffers tremendously. I would recommended lowering it further if SL isn't behaving, 200 is still higher than you will encounter in most situations in SL.

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3 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The bandwidth setting only refers to UDP data, it has no effect on texture download speeds etc. Too high and the server sends packets faster than you can accept them, those packets are literally lost and your SL experience suffers tremendously. I would recommended lowering it further if SL isn't behaving, 200 is still higher than you will encounter in most situations in SL.

Ooooh, I didn't know this. Has this become more of an issue since textures and such were moved to HTTP? That would make sense, as there would be more available bandwidth for UDP packets, and the CPU would be busier handling the un-throttled HTTP stuff.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters

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Just now, CoffeeDujour said:

The bandwidth setting only refers to UDP data, it has no effect on texture download speeds etc. Too high and the server sends packets faster than you can accept them, those packets are literally lost and your SL experience suffers tremendously.

I agree.  I would never recommend setting it too high for exactly that reason.  And yes, you're right that the setting only affects UDP data, which is a smaller part of the total these days.  Still, a setting in the range of 1000 is not unreasonable and may help.  It's worth a shot.

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44 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I agree.  I would never recommend setting it too high for exactly that reason.  And yes, you're right that the setting only affects UDP data, which is a smaller part of the total these days.  Still, a setting in the range of 1000 is not unreasonable and may help.  It's worth a shot.

well i tried both. setting it high low at 100, didnt work also i set it to high at 1000.. some colours and object appeared when i set it to 1000 but when i restarted again and it was back to same..

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55 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The bandwidth setting only refers to UDP data, it has no effect on texture download speeds etc. Too high and the server sends packets faster than you can accept them, those packets are literally lost and your SL experience suffers tremendously. I would recommended lowering it further if SL isn't behaving, 200 is still higher than you will encounter in most situations in SL.

well i tried both. setting it high low at 100, didnt work also i set it to high at 1000.. some colours and object appeared when i set it to 1000 but when i restarted again and it was back to same..

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Ooooh, I didn't know this. Has this become more of an issue since textures and such were moved to HTTP? That would make sense, as there would be more available bandwidth for UDP packets, and the CPU would be busier handling the un-throttled HTTP stuff.

The UDP and HTTP are separate communication protocols/channels.

Coffee incorrectly says setting it too high sends packets faster than you computer can receive them. But, the max value, recommended by Firestorm peeps experience, is 1500. That hasn't changed because the data load problem is server side. At 1500 the servers can almost always keep up. Above 1500 and a busy server can get behind and the user sees problems. Basically the server is too busy to pack all the information for all the users and get it sent. The client side with multi-megabit network speeds and handling capabilities is seldom going to get overloaded.

If one often visits busy regions, they may get better performance by reducing the setting. The idea being the server is likely to get the important info into their UDP packet and get it sent in the time it has available for each person in the region. But, the Lindens like getting ride of settings and this is one they are depreciating.  

Much of the UDP info bouncing around in SL is out of date. Even the Firestorm wiki still says set Max Band to 80% of your download speed or 1500 whichever is smaller. With 100 to 300mbps speeds common 80% is never less than 1500. Also, most people are unaware of Monty Linden's work in 2016 and 2017 to move SL server to client communication over to HTTP.

You can press Ctrl-Alt-Shift-U (Show Updates to Objects) to see the things affected by UDP information. Almost all textures and other assets in SL are now delivered by HTTP. So, changing Max Band no longer affects render speed. Once the scene renders how things change is affected by Max Band. Rubberbanding is an effect of lagging/lost UDP data, to and from the server. The experience of the FS people is this loss/lag is "LIKELY" to increase at settings above 1500.

Also, even before the move to HTTP the SL viewer caching system was updated and made more robust. With the move to HTTP it is even more robust. Clearing cache is a LAST RESTORT as clearing cache often makes problems worse, as sthashan found out. But, the old 'clear cache' recommendations persist. 

The Lindens are now working on yet another cache overhaul. So, the effect of cache-clearing's negative effects will likely become even more noticable.

1 hour ago, sthashan said:

well i tried both. setting it high low at 100, didnt work also i set it to high at 1000.. some colours and object appeared when i set it to 1000 but when i restarted again and it was back to same..

I don't see where you have mentioned your download speed or how well your connection is or isn't working.

We know the SL side works because it works for all of us. We know it is not your viewer as two different brands of viewer have the same problem. That leaves your hardware and your connection. The image you posted does not look like any of the video card failures I've seen. So, about the only thing left to check there is to make sure the video card and computer case are dust free and not overheating. You can use the free HWMonitor tool to check temperatures and not have to open the computer up.

While you may have a good general Internet connection, you need to check how well you are connected to SL. Open Viewer Statistics, Ctrl-Shift-1 - it is a toggle, open and close. Packet Loss and Ping are the basic measures of your connection quality. Smaller numbers are better. Packet loss is tricky. Generally <1% is livable. But, if packet loss is scattered, intermittent, now and then higher rates are tolerable. If it clumps, even 1% can get you disconnected.

Ping as measured by the viewer has a portion of SL server performance in the numbers. So, if ping is high, >250ms, check how the region server is doing. Time Dilation and Server FPS and Physics FPS should be 1.0, 44fps, and 44fps... ideally. As these numbers degrade ping goes up and thus can be misleading. So, test ping on a well performing region.

Above when you say "back to the same" I assume you mean the visual appearance of the render was messed up. But, check your Max Band setting. Make sure it stuck. A silent crash on exit will often allow settings to revert to their previous value.

I suspect the relog had more to do with the temporary improvement than the bandwidth setting.

I'm curious to see how this resolves.

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4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Ooooh, I didn't know this. Has this become more of an issue since textures and such were moved to HTTP? That would make sense, as there would be more available bandwidth for UDP packets, and the CPU would be busier handling the un-throttled HTTP stuff.

Less of an issue in that fewer parts of the experience are affected by UDP buffering issues. From a purely networking standpoint, SL is the most robust it has ever been, however as a single client can generate the same HTTP traffic as a small office's worth of web browsers it is capable of overwhelming a number of older domestic routers

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5 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

You have it exactly backwards. Linden servers are not bandwidth or buffer constrained in the same way your domestic connection is, upstream UDP from you to the server is minuscule compared to the constant downstream UDP that can ramp up significantly depending on whats happening on the region with your avatar.

The SL client is a dumb terminal. It only knows what the servers explicitly tell it.

We are going to disagree.

You are right the servers are not bandwidth bound. They are however CPU bound. Time Dilation and Server FPS are the primary measures of how well or poorly they are doing. You can watch Ping time change as TD and S-FSP degrade. The server has 22ms to get everyone updated. Exceeding the 1500 max-b by 20 or 30 people will burn up the time devoted to network processing that is needed for delivering UDP data.

One can Show the Updates to see how much info is being sent via UDP. It is that flood of UDP data going to ALL the clients that can lag the server. The portion sent to the individual client is a tiny percentage of what a workstation can handle. I can run 2 or 3 viewers, stream a radio station, and have a bunch of web pages open or stream video to YouTube gaming and and still not get my network resource over 50% usage.

My workstation is certainly not a dumb terminal. I don't know of any Win-10 computer that is used as a dumb terminal. The viewer certainly does not behave as a dumb terminal. Anyone can open the Win-10 task manager or Resource Meter and see how much work the viewer is doing. High CPU use shows an active system.

I'm not speculating on how this works. I'm using what I've heard the Lindens and various developers at UG meetings talking about. 10 years +/- of UG meetings has given me lots of information on how the SL system works. 

I think you'll be hard pressed to substantiate your statements.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The UDP and HTTP are separate communication protocols/channels.

Coffee incorrectly says setting it too high sends packets faster than you computer can receive them. But, the max value, recommended by Firestorm peeps experience, is 1500. That hasn't changed because the data load problem is server side. At 1500 the servers can almost always keep up. Above 1500 and a busy server can get behind and the user sees problems. Basically the server is too busy to pack all the information for all the users and get it sent. The client side with multi-megabit network speeds and handling capabilities is seldom going to get overloaded.

If one often visits busy regions, they may get better performance by reducing the setting. The idea being the server is likely to get the important info into their UDP packet and get it sent in the time it has available for each person in the region. But, the Lindens like getting ride of settings and this is one they are depreciating.  

Much of the UDP info bouncing around in SL is out of date. Even the Firestorm wiki still says set Max Band to 80% of your download speed or 1500 whichever is smaller. With 100 to 300mbps speeds common 80% is never less than 1500. Also, most people are unaware of Monty Linden's work in 2016 and 2017 to move SL server to client communication over to HTTP.

You can press Ctrl-Alt-Shift-U (Show Updates to Objects) to see the things affected by UDP information. Almost all textures and other assets in SL are now delivered by HTTP. So, changing Max Band no longer affects render speed. Once the scene renders how things change is affected by Max Band. Rubberbanding is an effect of lagging/lost UDP data, to and from the server. The experience of the FS people is this loss/lag is "LIKELY" to increase at settings above 1500.

Also, even before the move to HTTP the SL viewer caching system was updated and made more robust. With the move to HTTP it is even more robust. Clearing cache is a LAST RESTORT as clearing cache often makes problems worse, as sthashan found out. But, the old 'clear cache' recommendations persist. 

The Lindens are now working on yet another cache overhaul. So, the effect of cache-clearing's negative effects will likely become even more noticable.

I don't see where you have mentioned your download speed or how well your connection is or isn't working.

We know the SL side works because it works for all of us. We know it is not your viewer as two different brands of viewer have the same problem. That leaves your hardware and your connection. The image you posted does not look like any of the video card failures I've seen. So, about the only thing left to check there is to make sure the video card and computer case are dust free and not overheating. You can use the free HWMonitor tool to check temperatures and not have to open the computer up.

While you may have a good general Internet connection, you need to check how well you are connected to SL. Open Viewer Statistics, Ctrl-Shift-1 - it is a toggle, open and close. Packet Loss and Ping are the basic measures of your connection quality. Smaller numbers are better. Packet loss is tricky. Generally <1% is livable. But, if packet loss is scattered, intermittent, now and then higher rates are tolerable. If it clumps, even 1% can get you disconnected.

Ping as measured by the viewer has a portion of SL server performance in the numbers. So, if ping is high, >250ms, check how the region server is doing. Time Dilation and Server FPS and Physics FPS should be 1.0, 44fps, and 44fps... ideally. As these numbers degrade ping goes up and thus can be misleading. So, test ping on a well performing region.

Above when you say "back to the same" I assume you mean the visual appearance of the render was messed up. But, check your Max Band setting. Make sure it stuck. A silent crash on exit will often allow settings to revert to their previous value.

I suspect the relog had more to do with the temporary improvement than the bandwidth setting.

I'm curious to see how this resolves.

These are all the details when i moved to less busy region. The graphics still the same. the first pic is the tempr of the processor

1.PNG

2.PNG

3.PNG

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That's a HUGE ping time.  You can expect major lag, rubber banding at region boundaries, and frequent disconnects, in addition to other odd effects.  Your packet loss is also significantly high.  Normally, mine reports at <0.1%, only occasionally spiking to 0.1 or 0.2%.  You are losing significant amounts of data in transmission.  Finally, your CPU is running at a temperature that I would find alarming on my machine.  When I am in SL, my CPU and GPU are fairly consistently at 55 to 65 degrees C.  Yours, at 91 to 94 degrees, is hot enough to fry an egg.  That will shorten component lifetime, if it hasn't already.  I suggest taking immediate steps to clean all dust and cat hair out of your machine, check that all fans are spinning properly, and that you have good, unobstructed airflow through all vents.

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The only acceptable value for packet loss is 0.0% This is the root cause of your problems, the terrible ping kinda puts this well in the realm of a networking issue.

... and you might want to check your CPU cooler for dust bunnies.

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@sthashan The CPU temp is high enough that the chips will throttle to reduce temperature. In general Intel says max operating temp is 75C and general use is 65C. At 100C it is over max limit spec and likely to burn out, melt. So, your 94C is dangerously hot.

This typically has 2 causes, dust or a lose heat sink. If this is a laptop, vacuum out all the cooling ports. Use a crevice tool. Avoid over revving the fans. So, quick swipes across the ports with 10 to 20 seconds between passes. Laptops seldom have a loose heat sinks as they are bolted in place.

On a desktop, take the side off the case and look. If it is a dust problem you'll be able to see it. Use a can of air to blow it clean. Do NOT let the fan over reve. You can use a soft paint brush to dust the fan.

If it is clean, then check to see it it is loose. The fan/heat sink is pretty robust, so don't be afraid to take hold and try to move it. If it is loose, it will have to be reset. There are YouTube videos on replacing a heat sink. They will show you what you need to know.

If it is neither loose or dirty then it is too small. You can get great heat sinks & fans online. I use New Egg, B&H, and eBay. You want NEW. Even great heat sinks are cheap.

Packet Loss - That 1.2% may be high. At startup the value spikes up. If you have been sent 2 packets and lost one, that's 50%. 4 packets on and still 1 lost, your down to 25%. The longer you are on the lower it goes, unless you keep losing packets. 

The ping time is long. Not disastrously so and possibly tolerable for numerous SL activities. But, enough to warrant looking at and certainly too high for any combat or vehicle play. Use this information:  http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/26/troubleshoot-your-sl-connection/

None of this round of info shows anything to make the video problems you have. UNLESS the computer is for some reason using the CPU's HD Graphics rather than the NVIDIA card. The CPU is running HOT and likely having issues. So, make sure you have a game setup in the NVIDIA panel for each viewer you run. The how to is here: http://blog.nalates.net/2016/06/05/nvidia-settings-2016/

 

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I agree with Nalates, your CPU is running WAY too hot.  Address that issue right away!  Your GPU, on the other hand, is loafing along cool as a cucumber.  CPUs and motherboards should be kept cool...I don't like them to run over 60C.  Graphics cards, however, are designed to be able to run hotter.  If you can keep it around 60C fine, but you needn't worry if it runs up to 90C.

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On 7/26/2018 at 4:56 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

@sthashan The CPU temp is high enough that the chips will throttle to reduce temperature. In general Intel says max operating temp is 75C and general use is 65C. At 100C it is over max limit spec and likely to burn out, melt. So, your 94C is dangerously hot.

This typically has 2 causes, dust or a lose heat sink. If this is a laptop, vacuum out all the cooling ports. Use a crevice tool. Avoid over revving the fans. So, quick swipes across the ports with 10 to 20 seconds between passes. Laptops seldom have a loose heat sinks as they are bolted in place.

On a desktop, take the side off the case and look. If it is a dust problem you'll be able to see it. Use a can of air to blow it clean. Do NOT let the fan over reve. You can use a soft paint brush to dust the fan.

If it is clean, then check to see it it is loose. The fan/heat sink is pretty robust, so don't be afraid to take hold and try to move it. If it is loose, it will have to be reset. There are YouTube videos on replacing a heat sink. They will show you what you need to know.

If it is neither loose or dirty then it is too small. You can get great heat sinks & fans online. I use New Egg, B&H, and eBay. You want NEW. Even great heat sinks are cheap.

Packet Loss - That 1.2% may be high. At startup the value spikes up. If you have been sent 2 packets and lost one, that's 50%. 4 packets on and still 1 lost, your down to 25%. The longer you are on the lower it goes, unless you keep losing packets. 

The ping time is long. Not disastrously so and possibly tolerable for numerous SL activities. But, enough to warrant looking at and certainly too high for any combat or vehicle play. Use this information:  http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/26/troubleshoot-your-sl-connection/

None of this round of info shows anything to make the video problems you have. UNLESS the computer is for some reason using the CPU's HD Graphics rather than the NVIDIA card. The CPU is running HOT and likely having issues. So, make sure you have a game setup in the NVIDIA panel for each viewer you run. The how to is here: http://blog.nalates.net/2016/06/05/nvidia-settings-2016/

 

I have addressed to all of my hardware problems. The temperature has dropped down from 90C to 47C at average and 65 when its too hot right now. I have even installed an external cooling pad. They suggested me to change my graphics card after 5-6 months but not now. The problem in second life still is same.

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Well, darn!  I don't have much to suggest, but here are a couple of wild guesses.

Your graphics driver is slightly outdated.  The latest version is 398.82, released 08/01 and available on the Nvidia website.  I don't think this is the problem, but an update is probably worth trying, at least.

Are you SURE that your computer is using the GeForce 940M for Second Life?  It probably is, since your pasted system info references that chip, and not the CPU's built in graphics.  But you can check by right clicking your desktop screen and looking in the Nvidia control panel.  (A lot of laptops attempt to save power by using the less-capable graphics built into the main processor chip, and save the higher-powered chip for more demanding applications.)

Try setting Preferences/Graphics/Complexity further to the right...anything lower than "Unlimited", at the far right of the slider, is OK.

Do your tests somewhere less crowded and laggy.  Maybe the Heckendorf region, an area of empty water.

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1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Are you SURE that your computer is using the GeForce 940M for Second Life?  It probably is, since your pasted system info references that chip, and not the CPU's built in graphics.  But you can check by right clicking your desktop screen and looking in the Nvidia control panel.  (A lot of laptops attempt to save power by using the less-capable graphics built into the main processor chip, and save the higher-powered chip for more demanding applications.)

I'd just like to comment on this bit of advice from Lindal .. it is definitely worth double checking as I for one had an issue on my old laptop where every time Nvidia updated the laptop would "forget" to use Nvidia for Firestorm and revert to the  Intel graphics.  Took a couple of times of this happening before I realised.  

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@sthashan  I'm not clear on whether you have a laptop or desktop... From what you've said and specs, I am thinking laptop. But, one does not change the 'graphics card' in a laptop. In laptops the NVIDIA graphics is a chip mounted on the motherboard. So, replaceable only with same model of chip. So, what are "they" saying?

Also, you did not mention if you set up an NVIDIA game profile for your viewer. That leaves some of us wondering if the NVIDIA chip is in use or the HD Graphics in the CPU. From an earlier post I think you are running on NVIDIA.

Presumably in any other game or app the color is OK. So, it is not a general hardware problem. Other viewers do this, so not likely software or settings.

So, we have eliminated everything I can think of... hardware - server and client, software, connection...

You might setup an Alt for the techies to use and see if a local shop can figure it out.

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On 8/4/2018 at 2:06 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

@sthashan  I'm not clear on whether you have a laptop or desktop... From what you've said and specs, I am thinking laptop. But, one does not change the 'graphics card' in a laptop. In laptops the NVIDIA graphics is a chip mounted on the motherboard. So, replaceable only with same model of chip. So, what are "they" saying?

Also, you did not mention if you set up an NVIDIA game profile for your viewer. That leaves some of us wondering if the NVIDIA chip is in use or the HD Graphics in the CPU. From an earlier post I think you are running on NVIDIA.

Presumably in any other game or app the color is OK. So, it is not a general hardware problem. Other viewers do this, so not likely software or settings.

So, we have eliminated everything I can think of... hardware - server and client, software, connection...

You might setup an Alt for the techies to use and see if a local shop can figure it out.

by change the graphics card i meant changing the chip yes..
old habit u see lol
I have tried setting up NVIDIA game profile but it just doesnt show viewers as an option but i rechecked the graphics processor and it says its running NVIDIA.
I have checked my graphics with other games and its running fine.. just not with the viewers.
even thou it didnt work THANK YOU for your help thou

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ok another update

When i tried singularity viewer

Most of the things loads

My avatar loads as well

But with NO TEXTURE whatsoever

Everything is grey

Other viewers cant even atleast make it up to this level thou

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