Racism

[gregoryhao]

Hello, i came from Taiwan, in the RL i speak Mandarins, basically I speak Mandarins to my kids, and I went to NCI yesterday joined the nearby chat with other avatars, one of those avatar wearing bumper can slap me, I ask him in the nearby chat not to spank me, and the helper snap and say I cannot say the word, cause this is a G rate sim, I said I am Chinese, can you list the words I cannot say, after all this is LSL learning center, and many students don't speak English, just when their helper ask me if I speak Cantonese or Mandarins then I was ejected out and banned for the reason is Troll, I ask the helper  why you eject me, why you call me a troll and ban me, then she block me, and rest of the avatars ask me where did I go, I told them I was ejected, and helper call me a troll and banned me, they are very surprised, and say the helper just told others I explored other sim, so one of those avatar said she will never come back SL, cause looks like if you ask the wrong question they will eject you and ban you then insult you with a troll name.

I join the NCI helper's group to ask them, why you can do this to me, one of their helper IM me and says this is their own land, they don't rely on LL to give them financial support, they can do whatever they like, and she said she can remove anyone latter from this land, some of those helper is on my side and ask NCI to think more, some of the helper keep asking group manger, and even one of the strange people IM me latter ask me to click a website to get my IP address.

I fled an abuse report against that helper, cause the she call me a troll and insult me, my question is they are selling students products to make profits, a lot of them are from none English speaking country, can they do whatever they like as they claimed, and eject people out ban them, then insult them with a troll name when we ask question?

The log and text file cannot be attached, but I can still send out by IM box, if anyone can answer my question.

Edited May 25, 2018 by gregoryhao

[Bebe Bunny]

It's against TOS pointing out names and that's really awful but at the forums no one can do anything for you, the best you could do would reporting them using the profile option to do so. Posting their names here will be bad for you.

[Callum Meriman]

Please remove all names from your post gregory. It is against forums rules to name and shame.

The language you can use in a general is dictated by a simple rule. It is language you would happily use in front of your grandmother.

It is understandable that cultural differences can mean some words you might say in mandarin to your grandmother might have a ruder meaning when translated into English, but your question itself when told not to say the word was juvenile and not polite. You asked the person to list every curse, swear, sex word in the English language. That's trolling.

The correct way to act would be to say "sorry", not talk back like a schoolboy.

There are many other places you can go, don't let one banning cause you offense, but next time act with good manners and politeness. When an officer directs you to a rule, obey it with a smile or leave.

[Alwin Alcott]

6 hours ago, gregoryhao said:

Hello, i came from Taiwan, in the RL i speak Mandarins, basically I speak Mandarins to my kids, and I went to NCI yesterday joined the nearby chat with other avatars, one of those avatar wearing bumper can slap me, I ask him in the nearby chat not to spank me, and the helper snap and say I cannot say the word, cause this is a G rate sim, I said I am Chinese, can you list the words I cannot say, after all this is LSL learning center, and many students don't speak English, just when their helper ask me if I speak Cantonese or Mandarins then I was ejected out and banned for the reason is Troll, I ask the helper  why you eject me, why you call me a troll and ban me, then she block me, and rest of the avatars ask me where did I go, I told them I was ejected, and helper call me a troll and banned me, they are very surprised, and say the helper just told others I explored other sim, so one of those avatar said she will never come back SL, cause looks like if you ask the wrong question they will eject you and ban you then insult you with a troll name.

I join the NCI helper's group to ask them, why you can do this to me, one of their helper IM me and says this is their own land, they don't rely on LL to give them financial support, they can do whatever they like, and she said she can remove anyone latter from this land, some of those helper is on my side and ask NCI to think more, some of the helper keep asking group manger, and even one of the strange people IM me latter ask me to click a website to get my IP address.

I fled an abuse report against that helper, cause the she call me a troll and insult me, my question is they are selling students products to make profits, a lot of them are from none English speaking country, can they do whatever they like as they claimed, and eject people out ban them, then insult them with a troll name when we ask question?

The log and text file cannot be attached, but I can still send out by IM box, if anyone can answer my question.

where's the racism ?

only in your title i'm affraid.

[gregoryhao]

If you don't speak Chinese very well and you come to Taiwan or China for sight seeing, you are issued a ticked by traffic police man, and you ask police man about the rules in Chinese, and you still think to know more so you wont break the law again, then the next moment you are on the airplane to be deported to your home country, or they evacuate you to some suburban area,  and not allowed to go back in 72 hours, label label you as a troll.

I don't know what they do in your country, but here we don't do that, our law enforcer will kindly tell you the rules in English, and you can always appeal with evidence after that, we do not evacuate you or deport you cause you cant speak Chines or you ask question, if that is what they do there, I feel sorry for you.

Other people can slap me with bumper, I cannot say don't spank me in G rated SIM, and what is the difference of slap and spank? newbie is ok, noob is bad word and you call others noob you get banned? no warning? I can clearly understand no F or S word are not allowed, those rules like word cant talk to your grannie, are like literary inquisition to me.

That is quite simple for anyone to list them in the notecard, I failed to see the reason why you cannot do so for foreigners, and mark them as trolls, cause calling other toll and kick them out is more convenient for you?

[Marth Coberts]

Did you try explaining that English isn't your first language?

 

The NCI bunch can get a bit uppity at times, but it's fairly easy to stay on their good side if you put the effort in.

[Phil Deakins]

Going only by the OP's post, and assuming that nothing of any significance has been left out, NCI seems like it's run by at least one total d*ckhead, or at least someone who was having a particularly bad day, and the OP is right to be annoyed. But it's their place and their rules, so there is no comeback via SL.

[Jeny Howlett]

8 hours ago, gregoryhao said:

Hello, i came from Taiwan, in the RL i speak Mandarins, basically I speak Mandarins to my kids, and I went to NCI yesterday joined the nearby chat with other avatars, one of those avatar wearing bumper can slap me, I ask him in the nearby chat not to spank me, and the helper snap and say I cannot say the word, cause this is a G rate sim, I said I am Chinese, can you list the words I cannot say, after all this is LSL learning center, and many students don't speak English, just when their helper ask me if I speak Cantonese or Mandarins then I was ejected out and banned for the reason is Troll, I ask the helper  why you eject me, why you call me a troll and ban me, then she block me, and rest of the avatars ask me where did I go, I told them I was ejected, and helper call me a troll and banned me, they are very surprised, and say the helper just told others I explored other sim, so one of those avatar said she will never come back SL, cause looks like if you ask the wrong question they will eject you and ban you then insult you with a troll name.

I join the NCI helper's group to ask them, why you can do this to me, one of their helper IM me and says this is their own land, they don't rely on LL to give them financial support, they can do whatever they like, and she said she can remove anyone latter from this land, some of those helper is on my side and ask NCI to think more, some of the helper keep asking group manger, and even one of the strange people IM me latter ask me to click a website to get my IP address.

I fled an abuse report against that helper, cause the she call me a troll and insult me, my question is they are selling students products to make profits, a lot of them are from none English speaking country, can they do whatever they like as they claimed, and eject people out ban them, then insult them with a troll name when we ask question?

The log and text file cannot be attached, but I can still send out by IM box, if anyone can answer my question.

Thats the reason why I stay away from NCI. My own experience there wasn't that great. Most of the time my questions were ignored in local  and i saw newbies wander on their own without anyone trying to offer assistance. I was also acccused of being a griefer and what not. Strange place if you ask me.

I can only suggest to stay away from toxic environments and find new places to hang out at. I am sure there are many sims in sl where you would feel welcome or at least not bothered by anyone.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Jeny Howlett

[Alwin Alcott]

55 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

 you are issued a ticked by traffic police man, and you ask police man about the rules in Chinese, and you still think to know more so you wont break the law again, then the next moment you are on the airplane to be deported to your home country, or they evacuate you to some suburban area

when you gét in the country you'r too late. You have to inform yourself before you go. Violating local laws as foreingner makes you meet the immigration services and get evicted.

In SL it's slightly different, but still very close,  don't question a remark of a manager/owner, it's too late and will make things only worse. Their sim, their rules. Different language can be a small barrier, you can translate every txt and line at several webpages and inform yourself.

By traveling in SL you enter all cultures and habbits of the world, you need a general reserved attitude till you know more of the place where you are.

[Coffee Pancake]

8 hours ago, gregoryhao said:

and even one of the strange people IM me latter ask me to click a website to get my IP address.

I hope you reported this one too.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Marth Coberts said:

The NCI bunch can get a bit uppity at times, but it's fairly easy to stay on their good side if you put the effort in.

The NCI's outward purpose is not to act as gatekeeper keeping "undesirables" from progressing in SL  ... which is something they totally do and have always done.

Sadly this attitude is held by many involved in helping new residents, deciding who to help, who to neglect, who to call troll and griefer. This BS is part of the reason ALL Linden managed player to player assistance got canned.

Edited May 25, 2018 by CoffeeDujour

[Phil Deakins]

@CoffeeDujour I can understand why one of them might ask the OP to go to a website so that they can get the IP address. It could be to check whether or not the OP is a non-native english speaker, and being genuine. Even so, I agree that reporting it probably the thing to do, although IP addresses aren't in any way secret, so I doubt that LL would take much notice.

[gregoryhao]

4 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The NCI's outward purpose is not to act as gatekeeper keeping "undesirables" from progressing in SL  ... which is something they totally do and have always done.

Sadly this attitude is held by many involved in helping new residents, deciding who to help, who to neglect, who to call troll and griefer. This BS is part of the reason ALL Linden managed player to player assistance got canned.

As in real life, many helpers are friendly and help willing, they are my best friends, and some of those helpers are not helping at all, the effort was destroyed by those 2 to 3 helpers, they make that sim or  even SL game unfavorable.

[Ren Toxx]

Couple things, Gregory.

First, a “bumper” is something you wear that triggers animations & sounds (of slapping or whatever) when someone bumps you –hence the name–, and is thus used to pretty much say, “don’t bump me!”; so, at least for fairness’ sake, the first thing you should do when triggering someone else’s bumper is not to rant at them but to, well, you know... stop bumping them?

Now, one could chalk it up to lack of awareness of what a “bumper” is... if one hadn’t seen you before in similar venues, showing a remarkable fondness for bumping people around –and actually focusing on those with bumpers, pushing them over & over again until you were asked to stop.

I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened, this time, the way you described it... but even if you hadn’t tried the “racist card” trick, I have to admit I’d no longer be entirely inclined to take your account of the incident at face value.

Alas, another thing I remember of you from this other place is that you asked about the venue’s money prize options, the staff gave you abundant info about it and even bent over & backwards to provide you more options... and you literally ignored it all and went on other things, without paying the slightest attention to any of it.

 

Gregory, I’m not saying that you couldn’t possibly find abusive people in this world, either in administrative roles or otherwise. You certainly can, and you will. All I’m saying is that you’ll probably improve your own Second Life experience by being a bit more observant, and mindful of your own actions, before immediately blaming it all on everyone else, “the whole world against me” –or, as you tried in this post, “it’s cos I’m from this or that country”. Most people couldn’t possibly care less where you’re from and, as long as there’s no huge language barrier (and your posts here conclusively prove that there isn’t), all it’s required is that you put in as much effort trying to understand others, as you ask of them in trying to understand you 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ren Toxx

[gregoryhao]

4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

when you gét in the country you'r too late. You have to inform yourself before you go. Violating local laws as foreingner makes you meet the immigration services and get evicted.

In SL it's slightly different, but still very close,  don't question a remark of a manager/owner, it's too late and will make things only worse. Their sim, their rules. Different language can be a small barrier, you can translate every txt and line at several webpages and inform yourself.

By traveling in SL you enter all cultures and habbits of the world, you need a general reserved attitude till you know more of the place where you are.

We have many foreign labors here in Taiwan and our government print small booklets in their mother language to let them understand their right defined in labor law, we made a lot efforts to annihilate the culture barriers and educate employers.I spend many years in Europe and others abroad, i see people in every country with good willing and effort to do so, is it really so hard to define them in a notecard? I am not interested to go back there to accept their humiliations or literary inquisition, last time they send a warning with a reason "not changing the subject", and it says no second warning.

It takes joint effort to annihilate the culture barrier.

[Alwin Alcott]

10 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

It takes joint effort to annihilate the culture barrier.

yes, and yóu are the one that has to make the efford, yóu are the visitor and has to apply to the local rules.

It's not their duty to explain the rules , you are the one that has to find it out, mostly in the covenant or if it's RP in the groupinfo.

That your rl country makes booklets is of no relevance here.

[Destiny Marques]

22 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

We have many foreign labors here in Taiwan and our government print small booklets in their mother language to let them understand their right defined in labor law, we made a lot efforts to annihilate the culture barriers and educate employers.I spend many years in Europe and others abroad, i see people in every country with good willing and effort to do so, is it really so hard to define them in a notecard? I am not interested to go back there to accept their humiliations or literary inquisition, last time they send a warning with a reason "not changing the subject", and it says no second warning.

It takes joint effort to annihilate the culture barrier.

It isn't, but people tend to be lazy, and/or assume that you should already know.  Your best bet is to go elsewhere for help. 

 

[gregoryhao]

20 minutes ago, Ren Toxx said:

First, a “bumper” is something you wear that triggers animations & sounds (of slapping or whatever) when someone bumps you –hence the name–, and is thus used to pretty much say, “don’t bump me!”; so, at least for fairness’ sake, the first thing you should do when triggering someone else’s bumper is not to rant at them but to, well, you know... stop bumping them?

Not the case, one of my bumper will react and animate with sound when I actively bump another avatar, and he is wearing that kind of bumper.

[Ren Toxx]

57 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

“... is it really so hard to define them in a notecard?”

It must not be that hard because, in point of fact, they do have a notecard for it, Gregory, the “NCI Standards (Feb 2017)”. I went there just to check. It’s offered not 10m. from the very landing point, it took me all of 20 seconds to find it –and no, I wasn’t trying to break a record either, I just idly cammed around and found it. It wasn’t a big effort.

Gregory, you speak of “joint effort”... the very word implies that you are included in that effort-making. Sorry to say, but it really doesn’t look as if you’re putting in nearly as much of it as you keep asking of others, and blaming the inevitable results on others might make you feel better –at least momentarily–but in the long run it’ll only compound the problem and prevent you from enjoying Second Life the way it’s meant to be enjoyed: by adapting to it at least as much as you ask it to adapt to you 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ren Toxx

[Spin Barbosa]

57 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

We have many foreign labors here in Taiwan and our government print small booklets in their mother language to let them understand their right defined in labor law, we made a lot efforts to annihilate the culture barriers and educate employers.

Those small booklets are printed by government employees - people who are paid to do it. That's how they make their living. Are the people in SL you are asking to do this extra work going to be paid for it? Or are you expecting them to donate their time and effort to this project because you don't like the way they are running things now?

[gregoryhao]

11 minutes ago, Ren Toxx said:

It must not be that hard because, in point of fact, they do have a notecard for it, Gregory, the “NCI Standards (Feb 2017)”. I went there just to check. It’s offered not 10m. from the very landing point, it took me all of 20 seconds to find it –and no, I wasn’t trying to break a record either, I just idly cammed around and found it. It wasn’t a big effort.

Gregory, you speak of “joint effort”... the very word implies that you are included in that effort-making. Sorry to say, but it really doesn’t look as if you’re putting in nearly as much of it as you keep asking of others.

Let me show you what are listed in the notecard:

 Understanding These Standards

Helping Others

No Weapons Use

 No Nudity
 No Disruption of Events, Activities, or Classes

 No Soliciting, Selling, or Begging

No Harassment

SUMMING UP   

Which line told you, if you say "spank" you get banned? and I was there one of those player say "damn it" and helper did not say anything,  this is the rule you can live with.

[Cindy Evanier]

5 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

this is the rule you can live with

Sorry to say this but as with most places in SL, it is their sim.  They pay for it. They make the rules.  They can change the rules.  They can enforce it how they see fit as long as they don't break the ToS. 

[Alwin Alcott]

6 minutes ago, gregoryhao said:

SUMMING UP  

ok..

grab yourself together, wipe the dust from your shoes and move on.

[gregoryhao]

I am not interested to go back there, and this is for those newbie or rest of the people or students, who likes to be discriminated there.

and not against TOS can be discussed.

not asking them to publish booklet, simply list which word avatars including helpers cannot say there, stop twist my words and put them in my mouth.

[Ren Toxx]

As others have told you, you oughtn’t expect a basic rules notecard to become a 50-tomes treatise on all the subtleties of English double-entendres, possibly Adult innuendoes, etc. The notecard does say to “.... keep it clean, pleasant, and generally stay away from difficult topics like religion, sex...”, and beyond that, I imagine the owners decided what’s always decided in these cases: that no matter how many things they specified, there’d always be someone who’d find the one thing that wasn’t specified, and complain about it.

However, for what it’s worth, it goes on to say “if asked by an officer to drop a subject, please drop it”, leaving the aforementioned 50-tomes treatise on language hair-splitting to the on-the-spot officer in attendance. True, they can make a mistake –everyone can–, but it’s my experience than when they find someone overtly willing to endlessly argue it (and especially when that someone has a tendency to then selectively ignore a whole lot of things said his way), they kinda cut their losses on the effort thus far done with the person in question.

Anyway, just don’t go there anymore, problem solved. Your future Second Life experience will still be molded as much on what others do as on what you do, but if you choose to keep not caring about the second part of it... it’s your choice to make. Cheers! 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Ren Toxx