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kershe
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I was just in a sandbox that I particularly like - was there to work on my shape, when this guy came up and kept bumping into me.

Then he made my avatar grovel on the ground and then stand up and my avatar's head spun.

Selecting "stop avatar animations" didn't do any good.

I reported him, of course, and blocked him, but is there anything I could have done to stop him from animating me? How did it even work?

I'm pretty angry, but I understand it comes with the territory. I'd like to go back to that sandbox.

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5 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Me > Movement > Stop Animating Me - DOES revoke permissions for all scripts that are active on the region (aside from your own attachments).

This won't revoke permissions from attachments worn by other avatars either.
It will only revoke permissions from objects actually rezzed on the region, not worn.
The usual way these perms grabbers/animators work is the griefer will rez an object that surrounds the victim & follows their avatar around  on the region. The object is set to sit on left click.
Once you sit on that object, which just takes a single left click close to your avatar, you won't even notice you sat down. As soon as you sat on the object via left click, the object is returned to the griefers inventory, which unsits you - this takes less then a second. They then attach the object which has your permissions & they can animate you without asking permission as long as you both remain on the same region or at any time in the future when you are both on the same region.
There is nothing you can do about it unfortunately, once someone has your permissions in this way, it's permanent.

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To animate you a script needs permission from you . Once a script has been granted perms from you, it retains those permissions until the script is reset or the perms are replaced by those from another avatar, perms are cloned if the script with perms is copied. There was a thing a while back where someone would offer a hug and the hugger was made in such a way as to keep perms from people allowing the owner to animate those people again at will.

RLV requires that you have some attachment acting as in intermediary as it only allows your own attachments to act on your own viewer. A collar for example may allow others to animate you depending on how its set up (and doesn't need RLV to do it). Relays vary in what they will allow others to do .. if in doubt, remove the attachments. Note - Marines RLV viewer is way more permissive than RLVa viewers such as Catznip or Firestorm. 

Me > Movement > Stop Animating Me - DOES revoke permissions for all scripts that are active on the region (aside from your own attachments). If he can continue to animate you after doing this, then he either has a copy of the object in inventory with animate perms and can just copy, readd and animate you again, OR this is an exploit. In both cases this is greifing and should be abuse reported to LL and the sandbox owners.

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Which with deducting all plausible answers, leaves us with the implausible ones (an exploit)...

PS: one last explanation attempt: if he trapped you in an invisible bubble and moves that around it will play the walk animation... but that does not explain crouching to me...

Edited by Fionalein
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Should not be possible without your permissions you didn't have any RLV on, did you? (just asking to exlude that rather obvious explanation)

PS: experiences... did you accept any experiences related to the sandbox lately?

Edited by Fionalein
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30 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Should not be possible without your permissions you didn't have any RLV on, did you? (just asking to exlude that rather obvious explanation)

PS: experiences... did you accept any experiences related to the sandbox lately?

This is a brand new alt that I meant to use to experiment with the Tonic body (but I wasn't wearing it yet), and so it's just a couple of days old. I do have RLV enabled, but wasn't wearing any device or relay. Everything I was wearing was what came with the LL avatar when I signed up.  I haven't accepted anything anywhere about anything. Not experiences, not gifts, nothing. I'm brand new.  I just checked again just now to make sure I wasn't wearing anything weird, but no.

Edited by kershe
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Right -- all of that makes sense, except for the fact that it's a brand-new, just-signed-up avatar that hasn't done anything or accepted anything or worn anything other than what came with the avatar.  It isn't like there's days that I might forget I did something. It's just hours.

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8 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

This won't revoke permissions from attachments worn by other avatars either.
It will only revoke permissions from objects actually rezzed on the region, not worn.
The usual way these perms grabbers/animators work is the griefer will rez an object that surrounds the victim & follows their avatar around  on the region. The object is set to sit on left click.
Once you sit on that object, which just takes a single left click close to your avatar, you won't even notice you sat down. As soon as you sat on the object via left click, the object is returned to the griefers inventory, which unsits you - this takes less then a second. They then attach the object which has your permissions & they can animate you without asking permission as long as you both remain on the same region or at any time in the future when you are both on the same region.
There is nothing you can do about it unfortunately, once someone has your permissions in this way, it's permanent.

sneaky...

Can't we file a Jira to erm change this? Or would that need to revoke the whole permissions system (then just ban the owners would do the trick I guess)

Edited by Fionalein
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12 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

sneaky...

Can't we file a Jira to erm change this? Or would that need to revoke the whole permissions system (then just ban the owners would do the trick I guess)

There is a JIRA already - VWR-13228 - Object can obtain and retain permissions indefinitely without avatar's knowledge and no way of knowing who took it - possible security issue

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If you use Firestorm viewer, you can somewhat protect yourself from this situation:

  • Preferences -> Firestorm -> Protection -> Block left-click sitting on objects -> Tick this.
  • Preferences -> Firestorm -> Protection -> Revoke permissions -> Tick "Revoke on SIT and STAND" - note that will will "break" a lot of normal content though - you won't be animated when you sit on a seat or dance ball etc.

A while ago now, LL did make a change to the Stop Animating Me option Coffee mentioned above to also revoke permissions.
However using Stop Animating Me will only revoke permissions for objects rezzed on the same region. It does NOT revoke permissions for objects worn by other avatars on the same region.

Edited by Whirly Fizzle
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Hey!

Some time ago someone who saw my personal ad here contacted me and we exchanged IMs for a while and he showed me that very expensive hud (he wasted around 4k sending me that just to prove a point) where it did exactly that, it was something with "soul", it "stole" your soul and even with the stop animation and revoke permissions you couldn't get rid of it. Even if you relogged, you would stay on the hud to be animated. I tested it on my sister and it worked.

It's extremely abusive and intrusive and I'm really surprised that product still exists.

I don't think this is the same product, but it was a similar one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Soul-Harvester-Hud-2-Boxed-v9/3755253

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Yes, there are devices that can take the permission to animate you permanently.  One is a HUD called "Soul Seize."  The exploit can also be put into an object you sit on.  Once you sit, or give Soul Seize or a similar HUD permission to animate you, it takes that permission permanently.  Any time the perpetrator and you are in the same region, he can force an animation on you.

Using Firestorm's "Stop Animations and Revoke Permissions" command gives a partial defense.  However, if the perpetrator deletes his HUD and attaches a fresh copy, you'll have to do that again.

Setting "Revoke on Sit and Stand" in Firestorm's Preferences gives a defense, if you set that BEFORE the attack happens.  However, this setting will also adversely affect the behavior of things like multi-pose pose stands and multi-animation furniture, so you'll need to change that setting when using those items.

The other defense, once you've been snared by this exploit, is simply to not be in the same region as the perpetrator.

The only real cure will be for LL to fix the loophole described in Whirly's JIRA.

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This has just happened to me also - I got hit with something that made my av crouch over and unable to walk at all - I tried everything  - I had to strip down to my system av ,remove ALL attachments and AOs,  revoke ALL permissions, turn off ALL ability to run scripts on my parcel then reset my avatar skeleton - NOTHING WORKED. So next I downloaded the LL SL viewer and installed it (I'm a Firestorm user) - went back in world and I was normal again. Next thing I did  was to completely uninstall the Firestorm Viewer - including Registry Keys and ALL associated files - see here for instructions https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_clean_install - then I installed a clean copy - AND IT IS STILL HAPPENING - my av is still deformed when using the Firestorm Viewer. Whatever the hell this is - it is pervasive.

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8 minutes ago, Drew Mysterious said:

This has just happened to me also - I got hit with something that made my av crouch over and unable to walk at all - I tried everything  - I had to strip down to my system av ,remove ALL attachments and AOs,  revoke ALL permissions, turn off ALL ability to run scripts on my parcel then reset my avatar skeleton - NOTHING WORKED. So next I downloaded the LL SL viewer and installed it (I'm a Firestorm user) - went back in world and I was normal again. Next thing I did  was to completely uninstall the Firestorm Viewer - including Registry Keys and ALL associated files - see here for instructions https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_clean_install - then I installed a clean copy - AND IT IS STILL HAPPENING - my av is still deformed when using the Firestorm Viewer. Whatever the hell this is - it is pervasive.

check your land with the area search ( or other) to see if you have dropped a AO/chimera or other animation holding object ?

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29 minutes ago, Drew Mysterious said:

This has just happened to me also - I got hit with something that made my av crouch over and unable to walk at all - I tried everything  - I had to strip down to my system av ,remove ALL attachments and AOs,  revoke ALL permissions, turn off ALL ability to run scripts on my parcel then reset my avatar skeleton - NOTHING WORKED. So next I downloaded the LL SL viewer and installed it (I'm a Firestorm user) - went back in world and I was normal again. Next thing I did  was to completely uninstall the Firestorm Viewer - including Registry Keys and ALL associated files - see here for instructions https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_clean_install - then I installed a clean copy - AND IT IS STILL HAPPENING - my av is still deformed when using the Firestorm Viewer. Whatever the hell this is - it is pervasive.

Did you check gestures as suggested in the other thread?

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ok - so far all I can figure out is that this is triggered by walking FORWARD - when I stop walking after about 30 seconds my AV stands up straight again. 

I may have found something a Gesture that begins with a "#" which seems odd - none of the others do - I've deleted it, emptied the trash and now I'll do a restart.

 

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