SmugMug buys Flickr - Huge price increases likely

[Clover Jinx]

20 hours ago, loverdag said:

Waves. This is my very first post on the forum, on the beginning apology for my english, don't bite me pls!

- end of off topic -

Abou the new Flickr owner, please do not panic (yet)!

1/ prices and services -  SmugMug

(I'm not SmugMug customer myself, this is summary what I understood from info on Flickr Help forum about the upcoming changes).

 

 

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you so much for this information. I hadn't checked out the Flickr Help forum yet, but this does sound like it will be much better than how it is currently. It would make sense for SmugMug to simply add Flickr's social aspects rather than completely change them.

For those of you not familiar with Loverdag, she uses Flickr *a lot* and her Second Life images are breath taking.

 

[Maryanne Solo]

SmugMugs say your account will automatically transfer to their TOS by 25th or something and if you don't accept its bbye account.

Suits me fine. Its just another cash-grab by lazyRses who have no chance of getting a real job. 

Goodbye flicker!  I loved you dearly <3 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Maryanne Solo

[Fionalein]

If they decide to charge money, others like Google will just happily fill the new void...

[loverdag]

On 23. 4. 2018 at 1:48 AM, Rhonda Huntress said:

I don't bite until the third date.  Then it's time for the weird stuff.

Please lets take it slowly, I'm shy! 

[loverdag]

On 23. 4. 2018 at 3:52 PM, Clover Jinx said:

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you so much for this information. I hadn't checked out the Flickr Help forum yet, but this does sound like it will be much better than how it is currently. It would make sense for SmugMug to simply add Flickr's social aspects rather than completely change them.

For those of you not familiar with Loverdag, she uses Flickr *a lot* and her Second Life images are breath taking.

 

Thank you!

And ... thank you .... 

[loverdag]

10 hours ago, Maryanne Solo said:

SmugMugs say your account will automatically transfer to their TOS by 25th or something and if you don't accept its bbye account.

Suits me fine. Its just another cash-grab by lazyRses who have no chance of getting a real job. 

Goodbye flicker!  I loved you dearly <3 

May I ask why? SmugMug's TOS are much userfriendly and "gently" compare the current Yahoo/Oath TOS ... why it should be reasont to delete account - in the moment when you are given better TOS?

[Solar Legion]

23 minutes ago, loverdag said:

May I ask why? SmugMug's TOS are much userfriendly and "gently" compare the current Yahoo/Oath TOS ... why it should be reasont to delete account - in the moment when you are given better TOS?

Look further back in the thread: It has been noted that SmugMug disallows anything over PG-13 or so equivalent.

[loverdag]

25 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Look further back in the thread: It has been noted that SmugMug disallows anything over PG-13 or so equivalent.

I read that and I already commented that (twice) as most likely false alarm - old SmugMug rules used for product called "SmugMug", not for separate product "Flickr". And the new TOS in their final form aren't known yet, because they said they are working on them. Flickr staff said (and I copy-pasted in my previous comment), they doubt there will be any changes about adult content. Maybe you know more than I, but based on that I see no reason to think everything will turn into PG rated at May 25. 

[Solar Legion]

10 minutes ago, loverdag said:

I read that and I already commented that (twice) as most likely false alarm - old SmugMug rules used for product called "SmugMug", not for separate product "Flickr". And the new TOS in their final form aren't known yet, because they said they are working on them. Flickr staff said (and I copy-pasted in my previous comment), they doubt there will be any changes about adult content. Maybe you know more than I, but based on that I see no reason to think everything will turn into PG rated at May 25. 

Unfortunately the Flickr staff have no way whatsoever of knowing what will happen post transfer.

They can "doubt" there will be any changes all they want but until the final ToS is set down all we have to go on is the existing ToS for SmugMug.

Be as optimistic as you'd like - some of us prefer to err on the side of caution.

Some of us also use other services for Second Life related image storage as a precaution.

[loverdag]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

Unfortunately the Flickr staff have no way whatsoever of knowing what will happen post transfer.

They can "doubt" there will be any changes all they want but until the final ToS is set down all we have to go on is the existing ToS for SmugMug.

Be as optimistic as you'd like - some of us prefer to err on the side of caution.

Some of us also use other services for Second Life related image storage as a precaution.

As I understood, the staff stays, they are now part of the SmugMug team who works on that Flickrfriendly TOS changes. You are right their comments on forum aren't "official", but to think things will go exactly opposite direction than they said doesn't sound reasonably to me. 

[loverdag]

Current version, how do you understand paragraph 7/ ii?

https://www.smugmug.com/about/terms-flickr

As I mentioned before, my english is limited, but I would say "as marked with moderate / restricted filters its allowed".

[Solar Legion]

9 minutes ago, loverdag said:

Current version, how do you understand paragraph 7/ ii?

https://www.smugmug.com/about/terms-flickr

As I mentioned before, my english is limited, but I would say "as marked with moderate / restricted filters its allowed".

Considering that at present what you've linked is little more than Flickr's ToS with a couple of alterations to reflect their recent acquisition by SmugMug and not a reflection of what their ToS may end up being after May 25th ...

I'd say that pointing to it as evidence of anything concerning potential changes/revisions really is meaningless.

In this context the section mentioned (along with a few of those that seem to have been added in) represents little more than the merger of their ToS and Community Standards into a single, temporary document that has been tossed together to reflect the ownership change. Often this is Standard Operating Procedure for online services when they change hands.

Again though, you're entitled to be optimistic. I (and others) are just as entitled to be either realistic or pessimistic.

I cannot speak for others but I for one am going to wait until they release their actual revised ToS instead of the placeholder you've linked to.

[loverdag]

16 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Considering that at present what you've linked is little more than Flickr's ToS with a couple of alterations to reflect their recent acquisition by SmugMug and not a reflection of what their ToS may end up being after May 25th ...

I'd say that pointing to it as evidence of anything concerning potential changes/revisions really is meaningless.

In this context the section mentioned (along with a few of those that seem to have been added in) represents little more than the merger of their ToS and Community Standards into a single, temporary document that has been tossed together to reflect the ownership change. Often this is Standard Operating Procedure for online services when they change hands.

Again though, you're entitled to be optimistic. I (and others) are just as entitled to be either realistic or pessimistic.

I cannot speak for others but I for one am going to wait until they release their actual revised ToS instead of the placeholder you've linked to.

Old IT rule - never have important data without backup. Thats good to do and I didn't say anyone not to. My point was not to see as "confirmed facts" that nudity won't be allowed and/or that prices will be same/similar/with no free accounts as the other product has. It's good to backup, not so good to panic.

Side note: I see as interesting that this change of owner makes users so nervous and passionate, but when not so long time ago (June 2017) Verizon acquired Yahoo and then it became part of Oath (= new owner, new TOS, no guarantees for the future) nobody panicked that way. Since last summer we actually didn't know what to expect and what future holds for Flick, but that all happened silently.

[Solar Legion]

35 minutes ago, loverdag said:

Old IT rule - never have important data without backup. Thats good to do and I didn't say anyone not to. My point was not to see as "confirmed facts" that nudity won't be allowed and/or that prices will be same/similar/with no free accounts as the other product has. It's good to backup, not so good to panic.

Side note: I see as interesting that this change of owner makes users so nervous and passionate, but when not so long time ago (June 2017) Verizon acquired Yahoo and then it became part of Oath (= new owner, new TOS, no guarantees for the future) nobody panicked that way. Since last summer we actually didn't know what to expect and what future holds for Flick, but that all happened silently.

Part of that last bit boils down to Verizon simply acquiring a service and mostly leaving those who ran it in place. The only changes to their ToS then were pretty much the same as now with little altered in the CS.

This ... Is a bit different and thus people are rather understandably worried.

[loverdag]

4 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Part of that last bit boils down to Verizon simply acquiring a service and mostly leaving those who ran it in place. The only changes to their ToS then were pretty much the same as now with little altered in the CS.

This ... Is a bit different and thus people are rather understandably worried.

Not sure what TOS you mean. The old ones? But they were only temporary. There are new Oath TOS, fresh in April 2018. Because of the new situation and new owner the process of distribution them to users was stopped and a lot of accounts (incl. me) didn't see them and we won't be forced to agree with them. But based on feedback from users who already get the new Oath TOS, they weren't same as before and made users upset (see on Flickr Help forum). Oath was slow and did nothing very visible for first months, but it didn't give any guarantee about things staying same as "before Oath". There was new owner = same reason "to panic" as now. I think the main difference is Oath did things silently behind curtain. It made users not to panic and to think that "nothing will change"  - and in less than year we are here,  first the new Oath TOS and then F. sold to someone else. 

[Solar Legion]

22 minutes ago, loverdag said:

Not sure what TOS you mean. The old ones? But they were only temporary. There are new Oath TOS, fresh in April 2018. Because of the new situation and new owner the process of distribution them to users was stopped and a lot of accounts (incl. me) didn't see them and we won't be forced to agree with them. But based on feedback from users who already get the new Oath TOS, they weren't same as before and made users upset (see on Flickr Help forum). Oath was slow and did nothing very visible for first months, but it didn't give any guarantee about things staying same as "before Oath". There was new owner = same reason "to panic" as now. I think the main difference is Oath did things silently behind curtain. It made users not to panic and to think that "nothing will change"  - and in less than year we are here,  first the new Oath TOS and then F. sold to someone else. 

The "new" Oath ToS - released on April 15th 2018 - contains no mention whatsoever concerning what content they allow on their service. That was covered by the Community Standards.

While not exhaustive you can view some of the ToS changes to Flickr - including the April 15th one - right here.

Do note that the above is the first place I could find that has more than a single revision or two and does not contain any section that directly references nudity and such, instead stating that such information was contained in a different document.

Oh and as far as ToS and agreement goes? Can't speak for whereever you're from but where I am, not reading the ToS does not absolve you from having to follow it should you decide to use a product or service.

Which means that for many, they were bound by the Oath owned ToS - having read it or not.

Rather unsurprising that they took that route either as one of Oath's components - AOL - was notorious for pulling that sort of thing.

[Charlotte Bartlett]

I have a pro account because my feed has promo shots on to stay in line with the old TOS.

I think the Smug a Hug or whatever they are called thing is potentially good news because the Bad Panda days were getting out of control with Yahoo.  In fact on the Smug a Hug (must stop calling it that) they put a picture of a professional photographer in the spotlight and in the background looking sheepish a Panda - very clever of them.

I am not sure about price changes, but I suspect if they are going to invest into the platform they will be a little more expensive, but I am still hopeful that investment gives us a better platform that will make a price increase worth it.  Nothing in life is free, so they may still offer free accounts with ads?

[Maryanne Solo]

18 hours ago, loverdag said:

May I ask why? SmugMug's TOS are much userfriendly and "gently" compare the current Yahoo/Oath TOS ... why it should be reasont to delete account - in the moment when you are given better TOS?

That I now would have to pay for? LMAO. My photography is for my real life business. I have my own website. Why would I pay some clowns to store my own images? I don't need their advice nor do I actually care about others opinions. Also I have ALWAYS used external hard drives. Truly, if people are silly enough to pay these jokers that's entirely their choice. I see ZERO value in SmugMugs whatsoever. Quite frankly, the name says it all. My personal T.O.S says go take a leap thieves  Oh and pardon me, welcome to the forums

Edited April 25, 2018 by Maryanne Solo

[loverdag]

3 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

That I now would have to pay for? LMAO. My photography is for my real life business. I have my own website. Why would I pay some clowns to store my own images? I don't need their advice nor do I actually care about others opinions. Also I have ALWAYS used external hard drives. Truly, if people are silly enough to pay these jokers that's entirely their choice. I see ZERO value in SmugMugs whatsoever. Quite frankly, the name says it all. My personal T.O.S says go take a leap thieves

I'm not sure how you mean "to pay" for free account. They are "free" because you don't pay for them.

[Maryanne Solo]

Hi I had a read of their TOS and the "free" accounts only seemed temporary. That also aligns with their payment/account levels. Basic, pro etc that they display. I am quite the oddball in that I only use my mobile/cell phone for phone calls and texting. It has never been used to view the web and never will be. I have a dual screen custom 3d workstation for the web. I simply dont trust anyone or anything with any of my data. Even SL pics which are only for fun anyway. So I see this cashgrab as taking away my fun, so I'm not playing anymore. *stomps foot 

[loverdag]

2 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Hi I had a read of their TOS and the "free" accounts only seemed temporary. That also aligns with their payment/account levels. Basic, pro etc that they display. I am quite the oddball in that I only use my mobile/cell phone for phone calls and texting. It has never been used to view the web and never will be. I have a dual screen custom 3d workstation for the web. I simply dont trust anyone or anything with any of my data. Even SL pics which are only for fun anyway. So I see this cashgrab as taking away my fun, so I'm not playing anymore. *stomps foot 

We don't know what future will bring in long run, but they really didn't say nothing about free accounts being temporary. They said opposite - that they will keep them as they are. Far future was not known under the old owner as well, so the situation didn't change in this regard, all is same as it was.

" SmugMug said no changes would be made to Flickr’s current plans or rates: “Flickr’s free accounts are foundational to its community of influential and engaged photographers.”" source: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/apr/23/flickr-bought-by-smugmug-yahoo-breakup

[Maryanne Solo]

My whole point is >trust<. Given that FaRcebook has been exposed with its data stealing pants down and that Twitter is the anus of the human race, I'm over these shonky takeovers by untrustworthy profit mongers. I'm happy to say I don't need this stuff anyways. Now pardon me while I go hug a tree and listen to beautiful kookaburras and magpies <3 while everyone else is zombieing out on their silly little toys  *winx

   

[loverdag]

3 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

My whole point is >trust<. Given that FaRcebook has been exposed with its data stealing pants down and that Twitter is the anus of the human race, I'm over these shonky takeovers by untrustworthy profit mongers. I'm happy to say I don't need this stuff anyways. Now pardon me while I go hug a tree and listen to beautiful kookaburras and magpies <3 while everyone else is zombieing out on their silly little toys  *winx

   

This I understand well, I'm member of the club of "weirdos with paranoia" myself, for the instance I don't use Facebook under real name and never post anything related to RL privacy there. So yes, if you have issue with the new owner about that (even when its only about SL pictures) then you have no other choice than leave. Then its not decision based on "I will not pay" as I understood you before. 

[Maryanne Solo]

World champion Weirdo number 1 here :-) and thank you for recognising my rampant OCD and pent up rage over security issues. lolol. Being gently manoeuvred into spending my hard earned money simply isn't an option with me either. So I do wish them well. I wont even mention my faceboook name. You would still be laughing in ten years time if I told it to you  

[Drake1 Nightfire]

Good Lord there are a lot of negative nancys in here... So a photography site has acquired Flickr. I have read both the new Flickr ToS and Smughugs. And they both say there are no changes planned for Flickr users. All of this screaming sounds very much like the FUD when the new LL ToS said they own everything. How many screamed they were done with LL? A metric Sh!t ton.  And how many of them actually left? Very very few. 

FUD people, thats all this is.

I back up my Flickr all the time.  Any smart person does. If changes come, I will find somewhere else. I already have a  Tumblr, FB and Twtter.. Those should be enough. For me anyway..