Security orb height limits needs to be capped

[steph Arnott]

"up indefinitely.", no it does not, the bounding box limit is 4000 meters. Just becouse you can keep flying upwards you are not actually going anywhere after that limit.

[Qie Niangao]

I think there's much to be learned from the "privacy" that folks want for their virtual experiences, and particularly in how those wants are difficult to reconcile (as on SL Mainland).

Some of it should be directly applicable as "policy" that could be adopted by operators of commercial "experiences" Sansar. I'm thinking, in particular, fees as incentives for "neighbourliness." As-is, "privacy" measures have negative impact on neighbours, so internalize those externalities by offering better privacy for a higher price.

Other things would require exposing new functionality to scripts. As I hinted above, it would be great if scripts could control settings currently only available through viewer controls. Fankly, that seems unlikely for SL or Sansar. These days Lindens are captive to pretty pixels that don't do much (unless they surprise us with scriptable Bento -- fat chance!).

[Qie Niangao]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

"up indefinitely.", no it does not, the bounding box limit is 4000 meters. Just becouse you can keep flying upwards you are not actually going anywhere after that limit.

---

No. The simulation continues well above that. You may be confused by the build limit, which is 4096. This distinction was more obvious when the build limit was 768 -- but all the fun was to be had at higher altitudes. 

In case you don't believe me, get a friend to accompany you as you fly above 4096. Other than not allowing builds, stuff behaves pretty normally. Eventually, though, limits of floating point precision start to have unexpected consequences, which is why there's a build limit at all.

[steph Arnott]

Am not sure how mainland black list work, personaly i could not care who visits my sim as long as they not act as a jerk, if they are they get black listed. Can not say i understand security orbs full stop, what are people protecting in a virtual reality?

ADDED, "No. The simulation continues well above that" no does not, the math only is with in a defined limit, A simulator has no phyical box, just a math created visual representiation to the veiwer.

I am somewhat suprised that you did not know an agent is on one server and a sim server is on another.

[Conall DeCuir]

Even in a virtual reality like SL, you paid for your property. You pay for the land, for the things you have placed, for your house and you pay for your privacy because otherwise you wouldnt need a house but could mingle somewhere at the beaches or clubs. It shows great disrespect of people who intrude the privacy of others without permission. They prim in if you do not secure your privacy and sit suddenly next to you in the chair, starting to use the adult menu of your high quality adult furniture ... of course, many are naked from the start as they simply do not care about other people but only see themselfes and their fun.

That is why you need to secure your property so that you and the people you invited to join you, can enjoy it.

[steph Arnott]

I wish people would read the whole thread and not pick up on one comment.

[Callum Meriman]

Ah OP, as annoying as it is to be kicked by an orb, one builds a resilience to it (mostly). Look at this as a challenge instead, get back to the crash point, find the nearest rez place, and keep going. Make it a "game" to see just how many kicks, crashes and ban lines you can hit and come back from in your longer journey. Pick up your blimp, dust off your knees, and onwards-ho! In a perfect world the Lab would have done so many things, but yeah, they are out to kill SL and have been right back to 2007 at least.

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

...with the new (and much improved) behaviour of the interest list...

---

 

Not so sure it is "much improved" in this sense. I would still much prefer this to be at the avatar, but what is.. is. If one's aim is good, one can just go to 5000M above a parcel and look down into their bondage skybox.

Well, if one actually was even slightly interested at peeking into the bondage boxes. Meh, watching San Marino's Eurovision entry is more exciting than sneaking peeks into those boxes.

 

---

As a scripter, one of the most frustrating things about the "privacy" and "security" features is that too few of them are exposed to scripts....there's no way for them to remove

manual

"parcel privacy" nor whitelist access restrictions.

---

Agreed a million times over, but there are hacks around the lack of programmable whitelist restrictions whilst still using land controls. If I ever stop being a scaredy-cat I will release my personal boat/fly-safe orb that does just this, hacks the ban list. But yeah, even after a year of hardcore testing in my house next to my old airport just off the Blake Sea, I am still scared of accidentally kicking someone >.< Writing an orb is scary stuff, especially for a scaredy cat like me.

[steph Arnott]

"hacks" there are no hacks,

BTW, nothing can exceed 4000 meters, just becouse the asset server keeps you from crashing still does not mean you exceed that limit. If you beliveve you can the try and rezz a box.

[Callum Meriman]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

"hacks" there are no hacks,

---

Meh. You always seem so angry steph.

 

 

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Incidentally, there is no "top 1k". The 'sky' goes up and up indefinitely..

---

It loops at the signed longint or whatever, but that would need a lot of patience to cam down from.

*heads off looking for that number*

2,147,483,647 meters which is over 1.3 million miles in American distance.

[steph Arnott]

You have a problem, according to you any one you feel like is angry. Keep you mentl issues out of SL forums.

[Callum Meriman]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

BTW, nothing can exceed 4000 meters, just becouse the asset server keeps you from crashing still does not mean you exceed that limit. If you beliveve you can the try and rezz a box.

---

On firestorm, singu, some tpv?

go where you can rez.

Type 'gth 4000' and then 'rezplat' well and good, you have a prim at 4000M

Now type 'gth 4100' and then 'rezplat' ---- wow, a prim at 4100M... cam down 100M sure enough there is that 4000M prim.

Now type 'gth 4200' repeat the 'rezplat' cam down to 4100, cam down to 4000.

Keep going higher, you can still rez. 

TP someone in, they see your prim, it's not local, it's in the world, as high as you care to put it.

 

Well, until you try to move it, only then will the 4K limit hit, but as long as you don't move that prim, house, whatever, nothing stops you rezzing there.

[steph Arnott]

Sure that called streatching accociation to the sim server. In other words, the same as off world objects.

[Callum Meriman]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

Sure that called streatching accociation to the sim server. In other words, the same as off world objects.

---

Off world objects need a prim inside the sim's build limits.... they are also phantom.

This is a genuine prim and the method has been there since before 2006.

Those Z readings when one is 10,000M are genuine, You are 10,000 meters up. Do the rezplat trick up there, invite in friends, delete the prim and all skydive, watch the count down. And yes, with your 'dd 1000' before hand you will see the ground quite high up, and quite fishbarrelled.

[steph Arnott]

You are the expert, good luck.

BTW, can you pass that to Linden Labs as you appear to have exceeded core parameters.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Callum Meriman wrote:

... but there are hacks around the lack of programmable whitelist restrictions whilst still using land controls. If I ever stop being a scaredy-cat I will release my personal boat/fly-safe orb that does just this, hacks the ban list. 

---

That would be interesting. (Just for clarity, it's certainly possible for scripts to manage parcel whitelists -- they can call llAddToLandPassList() and then fiddle with the duration, but as far as I know they can't switch on and off the setting that restricts access to a whitelist. That would be very useful to know, if it's possible.)

(After this, I'm simply not going to address the 4096m build ceiling unless it again becomes germane to the security topic of the thread. The SL server architecture does not put the agent on a separate server from the spatial simulation, and I doubt Sansar will, either (but I don't know). The asset server has nothing to do with any of it, and just because building is artificially capped doesn't mean the simulation is capped: above that ceiling, avatars can fly around and bump into each other normally; Havok space is not truncated.)

[Callum Meriman]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

BTW, can you pass that to Linden Labs as you appear to have exceeded core parameters.

---

I am sure many Lindens have been skydiving. These are just old methods of speedy ascent that have been used for over a decade by anyone with a parachute.

[steph Arnott]

The agent is not on the sim serve, the agent info is passsed from another server to the sim server. Also u nless you can rezz an object send it ot 16000 meters and rezz then it is clearly out side that sims parameters.

[steph Arnott]

Sure still can not rezz an object though can they?

[Callum Meriman]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

---

Callum Meriman wrote:

... but there are hacks around the lack of programmable whitelist restrictions whilst still using land controls. If I ever stop being a scaredy-cat I will release my personal boat/fly-safe orb that does just this, hacks the ban list. 

---

That would be interesting. (Just for clarity, it's certainly possible for scripts to 

manage

parcel whitelists -- they can call llAddToLandPassList() and then fiddle with the duration, but

as far as I know

they can't switch on and off the setting that restricts access to a whitelist. That would be very useful to know, if it's possible.)

---

You are right Qie you can't do the whitelist in LSL and you also can't turn on/off the parcel's ban lines as you mentioned. I did test the land pass list, it wasn't workable as an orb solution. This hack though is working - and I don't deny it's a hack on what few land controlling LSL commands we are given.

I'll shoot you an IM in world when I am inworld next (you are welcome to put in this thread if I don't). It's worked in heavy mainland testing next to my old airport in Exhara for over a year before we sold it, and I still have one testing near Wright Field and one near Bear Infohub.

I want to release this thing, a plane safe, boat safe auto on-off orb but Orbs really are scary to release to the general public because I believe they need to be 100% bug free, not sure how the respected luminaries in this thread and other's like Conover and Neurolab can do it so easily.

In the early days I ejected a few people I shouldn't have from the airport, including my neighbor who was overflying it. oops.

[Callum Meriman]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

The agent is not on the sim serve, the agent info is passsed from another server to the sim server.

---

The agent is on the region. You can verify this in Help|About to get the IP address of the regionand correlate that to a 'netstat -an' command in Linux.

[steph Arnott]

After 4000 meters you are in void, the screen  just cycles, you are no longer in that sim.

[Callum Meriman]

---

steph Arnott wrote:

After 4000 meters you are in void, the screen  just cycles, you are no longer in that sim.

---

rez a platform at 4100M, edit it to be physical, follow it as it falls to the ground.

You are not in void. Void is the term for the empty space between sims, there is currently water there at the height one sets one's regions water level too. before about hmmm 2011(?) the void water was always 20M, which looked pretty bad if you had no water.

I think I will follow Qie's direction here and stop, on this issue as it's going right off topic - which is about orbs, and how they can be very annoying to those who use vehicles.

[steph Arnott]

submit i JIRA as you clearly have exceed system parameters. Simple.

Being seriouse, Linden Labs would pay you US$5000 plus for that bug.

[Rhonda Huntress]

System parameters?  Where are you finding those?

[bebejee]

I may have not been looking outside but I was definitely looking at the screen and constantly checking mini-map, speaking of which the SL viewer mini map is kind of strange, I dont know what all it tries to show in there in black and grey patches that coverup land images.

There was no one present on that piece of land or skybox, map did not show any green dot.

What makes one think that the blimp or any other vehicle did not crash a few times before and I had to restart my journey all over again? it can be very annoying to have to do that again ang again.

I dont know about others but making an uniterrupted continuos journey is a challenge, rarely do I make it in one go from point A to B, I do pick up and find a new rezz spot etc. but the fun is lost, so when its hapening  and without having to steer and fly in a straight line and at the lowest speed enjoying a movie or something, and to be robbed of that experienece for no other reason than an ord  not liking you flying a 1000 feet above is really frustrating. 

Flying extremely high is no fun, I like to see things below, intersting builds, landscapes, but to avoid the orbs I keep the blimp and hot air ballon at an unecessary high altitude and to be robbed of teh pleasure even there is unacceptable.

People comparing RL to SL, you must be joking,, I rent a place that is three sides floor to ceiling glass and the door dosent lock, its on mainland with neighbours all around, no one has even bothered me, there have been quite a few visitors to the sim exploring the place, not one barged into my place or tried to act out stuff, they didnt even cam the place.