Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Linden Lab

Skill Gaming Policy Thread

Recommended Posts

people have a lot to learn about what the meaning of skill gaming is 

  1. game of skill is a game where the outcome is determined mainly by mental or physical skill, rather than by chance. A game of skillgenerally has an element of chance, but skill plays a greater role in determining the outcome.

.but this ios not true in sl guess someone needs to come up with another dictonary with what the meanings of words r in sl because they r not the same as they r in rl

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe when the person has come up with a new dictionary, they can then teach you how to write.in Englsh. Or... when you've learned how to write in English, then you will be able to come back and criticise LL's definition of 'skill gaming'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


irihapeti wrote:


Sorina Garrigus wrote:



If the dealer had choices it wouldn't be effectively AI, it would just be I. He is following a script/rules. Here is one  example of "program" they follow

If DEALERHAND < or =16 then hit else

     If Dealer has Soft 17 then hit

     If Dealer has 17 then Stay

End Program

 

A computer programed opponent would be the same exact thing. It is programed to respond based on conditions it encounters.

 

is nothing intelligent about these kinds of programs as wrote. Is no more intelligent than

print "Red" then "Green" then "Blue"

if was writing a program that exhibit intelligence using your example then

If DEALERHAND < or =16 then

 ReviewThisPlayersPreviousActionsAndHitStandAccordingly

It is not "inteleligent" from a organic humanoid point of view but it is how many games that have what is refered in a rather gimped kind of way as AI. Take the average MMO for example. Player 1 shoots zombie 3. Zombie 3 charges player 1. If zombie 1-5 are in range of the sound of the weapon use they also follow. etc so on.

AI in games at this point pretty much is mostly a series of if then statements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Dillon Levenque wrote:

I've had enough of this thread.

The dealer in a game of Blackjack played by the rules followed in the US always wins in the long run. Guaranteed. The players that actually win at Blackjack (as opposed to claiming they win, mostly by ignoring the fact they've lost sixteen bundles over the last month in favor of admiring the bundle they won today) do so by various strategies almost all of which are based on counting cards. Most casinos watch for those people and toss them as fast as they can.

Anyone who enters a gambling casino* expecting to win is an idiot. Every casino owner knows this. You make your money taking advantage of the stupidity of other people. I hope you're proud of yourself.

*I will make an exception to this. In California, where I live, there are what are called 'card rooms' legal and licensed in some places. They sometimes get called casinos, but in most jurisdicitons the only form of gambling allowed is card games in which players compete against each other  Games like Poker, for instance. The house takes a cut from every pot in exchange for providing the place and maybe a dealer. Nothing wrong with that.

Anyone entering a Casino expecting to win is COMPLETELY insane or has a way to cheat. It's not stupidity. I would have a hard time imagining anyone thinking they will definitely will win a game of chance. The would be called a game of definitely winning. NOBODY is this stupid.

I do believe anyone that goes into a casino thinking it as a way to make money is acting in a VERY unwise fashion. Anyone that plays such games should only do so with their entertainment dollar.

And good job calling billions of people stupid including most likely some members in your own family. Nice one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


irihapeti wrote:

i have a inworld friend who plays (now used to play) NoDevil

i ask him why. He says is just something to do when he is not making and putting stuff in his shops

i ask him how is that working out. He said pretty good. Sometimes I win 20,000L

I go: annnnd??

and he laugh and go: and sometimes I lose 30,000L

and I go: how often do that happen ??

and he goes: more times than I win 20,000

I tell him he need get a life. He laugh even more and say true

I get a IM from him yesterday. He wants to know where he can get belly dance animations

I go" waaah!! what for ??

and he goes: I got a girlfriend

so I give him a list of places they can go and get. He was pretty happy about that. I never met her yet but am pretty sure she be pretty happy about it as well. Him getting a life (:

Nice story but honestly "Getting a life" doesn't really happen in Second Life. It happens in First Life. On rare occassions it can be the same but only to the very very few.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


jimmythesaint wrote:

people have a lot to learn about what the meaning of skill gaming is 
  1. game of skill
     is a 
    game
     where the outcome is determined mainly by mental or physical 
    skill
    , rather than by chance. A 
    game of skill
    generally has an element of chance, but 
    skill
     plays a greater role in determining the outcome.

.but this ios not true in sl guess someone needs to come up with another dictonary with what the meanings of words r in sl because they r not the same as they r in rl

 

A game of skill skill can  have chance elements BUT the skill has to be the predominant factor. My go to example is Backgammon. You roll the dice, and then determine what you will do based on that roll. The websters definition and the legal definition of a game of skill are two different things.

I will say there are some games in the past that LL has allowed that are not skill based and at least one or possibly two on the approved list that are definitely not skill based games by any definition. I am not an attorney but I imagine they still have a potential liability situation by the fact they are posting the approved list essentially telling residents these games are ok to use and have LLs blessing.

Clearly LL wants to allow such games and absolve themselves of legal responsibility as much as possible. But with games of pure chance on the approved list it still creates the problem of the last 7 years. Where people will play the game of chance LL allows while the more true games of skill are pushed into the background. This is what has happened the last 7 years since the wagering on games of chance policies. What LL actively allows that is outside their policies shapes the entire skill game industry for competition reasons. It would be great if grown adults had the freedom to play pay and win games as they like but that isn't the reality. Because special interests groups and lobbyists trumps freedom.

LL needs to act fairly towards all and they haven't. "Residents" have to interpret what is allowed by what actually happens in world because it simply does not conform to what the policy is because LL wants the income.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorina Garrigus wrote:

AI in games at this point pretty much is mostly a series of if then statements.

That's why it's called artificial intelligence. It's known that it's not actual intelligence. It tries to look a bit like intelligence, that's all ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Phil Deakins wrote:


Sorina Garrigus wrote:

AI in games at this point pretty much is mostly a series of if then statements.

That's why it's called
artificial
intelligence. It's known that it's not actual intelligence. It tries to look a bit like intelligence, that's all 
;)

And it's been said that artifical intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sept. 17, 2014, 8:37 a.m.
Georgina Linden

 

Greetings,

Per our TOS the payment method on file to access a skill gaming region must be a credit card with a valid billing address, not PayPal. Please remove your credit card, then re-add your credit card following the previous steps. We appreciate your cooperation.

Regards,

Linden Lab Billing

 

Sept. 17, 2014, 10:14 p.m.
Me

 

Per YOUR TOS the word "credit card" comes up Twice.

"Upon your acceptance of these terms and submission of your order, you hereby agree that we have the right to automatically charge your credit card or debit your account (or other payment method) for the applicable fees or charges, plus any applicable taxes that we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so."

and the next sentence

Thereafter, if you have purchased or redeemed a subscription-based product or service, each time your subscription comes up for renewal, we have the right to charge your credit card or debit your account the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so.

No where in your TOS does it say that a credit card is required to access Skilled Gaming Regions.

 

Sept. 17, 2014, 10:23 p.m.
Me

 

In addition, there is no mention of the word "Credit Card" at any point in your official Skilled Gaming Policy.

I have been aged verified for about 5 years now and have/can access adult areas for this entire time. Again, there is no where in your TOS or "Skill Gaming Policy" stating that there is a credit card required for access to these regions.

 

Sept. 18, 2014, 8:28 a.m.
Georgina Linden

 

Greetings,

Our skill gaming areas require a credit card with an active billing address on file to access. If this is not on the file, the regions will remain inaccessible on your account.

Regards,

Linden Lab

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Can someone show me where it says this at anywhere in the policy or the TOS because I sure as hell can't find it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Chronalis Rexen wrote:

Sept. 17, 2014, 8:37 a.m.
Georgina Linden

 

Greetings,

Per our TOS the payment method on file to access a skill gaming region must be a credit card with a valid billing address, not PayPal. Please remove your credit card, then re-add your credit card following the previous steps. We appreciate your cooperation.

Regards,

Linden Lab Billing

 
Sept. 17, 2014, 10:14 p.m.
Me

 

Per YOUR TOS the word "credit card" comes up Twice.

"Upon your acceptance of these terms and submission of your order, you hereby agree that we have the right to automatically charge your credit card or debit your account (or other payment method) for the applicable fees or charges, plus any applicable taxes that we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so."

and the next sentence

Thereafter, if you have purchased or redeemed a subscription-based product or service, each time your subscription comes up for renewal, we have the right to charge your credit card or debit your account the then-current renewal rate plus any applicable taxes we are required to collect, and you authorize us to do so.

No where in your TOS does it say that a credit card is required to access Skilled Gaming Regions.

 
Sept. 17, 2014, 10:23 p.m.
Me

 

In addition, there is no mention of the word "Credit Card" at any point in your official Skilled Gaming Policy.

I have been aged verified for about 5 years now and have/can access adult areas for this entire time. Again, there is no where in your TOS or "Skill Gaming Policy" stating that there is a credit card required for access to these regions.

 
Sept. 18, 2014, 8:28 a.m.
Georgina Linden

 

Greetings,

Our skill gaming areas require a credit card with an active billing address on file to access. If this is not on the file, the regions will remain inaccessible on your account.

Regards,

Linden Lab

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Can someone show me where it says this at anywhere in the policy or the TOS because I sure as hell can't find it.

Fascinating.  And like you I can not think of or find anywhere that specifically says, "you must have a credit card, etc."

But it appears that now we know exactly what is meant by, 2.2 "A Valid Payment Method," which to my knowledge is never clearly defined. 

ETA, because LL only accepts two payment methods it would be a given that it would need to be at least one of these that are used to verify eligibilty.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Perrie Juran wrote:


Chronalis Rexen wrote:

 

Sept. 18, 2014, 8:28 a.m.
Georgina Linden

Greetings,

Our skill gaming areas require a credit card with an active billing address on file to access. If this is not on the file, the regions will remain inaccessible on your account.

Regards,

Linden Lab

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Can someone show me where it says this at anywhere in the policy or the TOS because I sure as hell can't find it.

Fascinating.  And like you I can not think of or find anywhere that specifically says, "you must have a credit card, etc."

But it appears that now we know exactly what is meant by,
which to my knowledge is never clearly defined. 

ETA, because LL only accepts two payment methods it would be a given that it would need to be at least one of these that are used to verify eligibilty.

What Georgina Linden tells seems strange to me. My billing information "Payment Method" is a PayPal account. I have no other payment method. My alt account has that same payment method too. I can go with both accounts to Skilled Gaming regions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Coby Foden wrote:


What Georgina Linden tells seems strange to me. My billing information "
Payment Method
" is a
PayPal account
. I have no other payment method. My alt account has that same payment method too. I can go with both accounts to Skilled Gaming regions.


Same here.

My alts who could not access skill game regions because they had no PIOF can now access them after adding only a Paypal account plus a billing address.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All this PayPal stuff is driving me loopey because I have Info in my head from things I read long ago and now am unable to verify or document what is floating around in my head.

PayPal has different flags they use for accounts.  First is a Verified wher you have confirmed your banking info with them

The next are accounts that are guaranteed/secured by a Credit Card.  You agree to allow PayPal to charge your credit card should you not have enough funds in your account.  This is why most online purchases say allow three to five days for shipping.  They are waiting for funds confirmation.  But if you have a Credit Card linked  then the system tells them you are good to go.

So could it be that for those of you who only have PayPal that you have a Credit Card linked to your PayPal account?

I guess right now I'm speculating because I have no proof.

Otherwise it's like Dres says, "LL is making this *expletive* up as they go along."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Perrie Juran wrote:

 

PayPal has different flags they use for accounts.  First is a Verified wher you have confirmed your banking info with them

. . . . .

So could it be that for those of you who only have PayPal that you have a Credit Card linked to your PayPal account?

About account verification, PayPal says:

To become Verified, log in to your PayPal account, click the Unverified link, and follow the instructions.

Note: To become Verified, you must:

 

1.   Confirm your email address.

2.   Add a credit or debit card to your account.

3.   Link and confirm your card.

 

My PayPal account is verified and I have credit card linked to the account.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My payment information has been the same for years.  I've been adult verified for about 5 years now and even now have no issues with going to adult rated sims if I so choose (I lived on one until here recently . . . Hey the prices were good what can I say) Anyways . . .

I have attempted to follow their steps time after time to "Verify" my details but according to LL nothing has changed since the "9/2" Not sure if this is February or September but anyways . . . 

 

I don't see how LL could go so far into my PP account to know if it is verified one way or another with an account but the short of the long is that LL and this bloody "Skill gaming" fiasco is costing a whole lot of good people money by actually adhering to the rules and regs that they set down but LL CBF to actually police the wanks who are openly subverting the "policy" and still running games that are not on the list at all 

 

At any rate I guess I'll have to go somewhere and beg off a credit card number as it seems they don't care WHERE the number comes from . . . as long as the account is "Verified" with some kind of CC 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am still trying to figure out the whole sploder thing. Some clubs have removed them and some haven't. The ones that haven't seem to eather be exempt or have no intentions in complying with the new gameing rules. Can someone clerify the policy in regards to sploders in clubs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Christin73 wrote:

I am still trying to figure out the whole sploder thing. Some clubs have removed them and some haven't. The ones that haven't seem to eather be exempt or have no intentions in complying with the new gameing rules. Can someone clerify the policy in regards to sploders in clubs?

Spolders have not been legal in awhile, but until now LL has largely ignored them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Sorina Garrigus wrote:


i.

AI in games at this point pretty much is mostly a series of if then statements.

is mostly not

AI progams use decision tables. The decision-making being data driven and not procedurally driven

data gathered thru interaction. Where the actions of the AI change as more and new data previously unknown (as relates to the individual person/player previously unknown to the AI) is gathered/analysed by the AI. Without any new code needing to be added by the programmer to effect changes in decision making

+

this said

is some really well-designed AI programs that can create self-modifying executable code

a example of a self-modifying executable code engine (written iin LSL) is here:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Assembly_Programming_Language

is pretty cool

 

edit: add word executable to make more clear what is meant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wrong, that is nOT what a true AI is,  an if then statment is nothing more then a program a set of instructions, there is no AI in that, that is NOT the definiotion of a true AI, do these games, think? do they learn? do they formulate their own choises and opinions with oit the influince of the user? NO. a true, AI is a computer or machine that Thinks, learns, and makes it's own disitions with out the influince of the user. gaming machines are no where NEAR  that level and niether are a series of  if then statments. do your research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that is not a True AI in the definition of artificial intelligance i have given. a smart phone doesn't even fit the definition of a true AI, the HAL 9000 in space odessy is a great example of a true AI. the terminatore played by Arnold Swartzenegger is a good example of a true AI,  an lsl script made to simulate an AI function is NOT a true AI,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


irihapeti wrote:

is some really well-designed AI programs that can create self-modifying executable code


I have very fond memories of writing self modifying code on Dad's PDP-11 and on my Macintosh. People look at me funny when I suggest that as a way to solve thorny problems in real-time systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


irihapeti wrote:

is some really well-designed AI programs that can create self-modifying executable code


I have very fond memories of writing self modifying code on Dad's PDP-11 and on my Macintosh. People look at me funny when I suggest that as a way to solve thorny problems in real-time systems.

Let me be the first to suggest that's not why people look at you funny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...