Processing Credit To Paypal - 3 Days, 5 Days, and now 9 Business Days

[Alexxis DeCuir]

LL. Get your act together. Yes.. I understand these are being "manually" verified now. But how about paying us at steady and consistant intervals. For example. Actually paying us after waiting three business days consistantly instead of having us playing the guessing game on when we are going to get paid. Employees at LL would be rather pissed if the check they were expecting did not come on friday, and they had to wait without knowing if or when they would get it. Seriously.

[Frawmusl]

Heh, Online payments have never been a great thing to rely on for a paycheck. Plan out things better so you aren't clinging to the next paycheck to get by? Or are you fine on money and just complaining because you can't have more faster?

I don't understand the flaming, LL allows you to use their interface to make and sell creations..And be paid real money, I guess I've never understood why people are so hateful on LL. "Oh let us put our virtual world for people to access and use for free, and even let them make money! Im sure they'll all hate us for it, It'll be awesome!"

Maybe apply for a job at LL and help their market team? That might solve the problems more than being angry about it?

[Alexxis DeCuir]

Online payments aren't a new thing. And at one point in time we had instant payments through xstreet which was owned by LL. They have the technology to do so. So I do not understand why they do not offer it to accounts that have a long history with them. Yes. I do rely on Secondlife income as my "job" income. All I am asking for is continuity in payments from a company that has the potential to do it.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

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Frawmusl wrote:

I don't understand the flaming, LL allows you to use their interface to make and sell creations..And be paid real money, I guess I've never understood why people are so hateful on LL. "Oh let us put our virtual world for people to access and use for free, and even let them make money! Im sure they'll all hate us for it, It'll be awesome!"

---

Wee bit backwards, LL resells our goods for their own profit both direct and indirect. If there's a privilege, it's LL's for gaining users willing to go through their systems that aren't up to date with comparable services. As for relying on reasonable payment periods of course people do this by the millions every day, whether that's your paycheck through a payroll company or from your customers and clients.

Sometimes people even get a big red PAYMENT DUE when they don't pay promptly.

It depends to what standard I suppose you hold those affiliates for selling your goods.

 

 

[Rya Nitely]

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Frawmusl wrote:

Heh, Online payments have never been a great thing to rely on for a paycheck. Plan out things better so you aren't clinging to the next paycheck to get by? Or are you fine on money and just complaining because you can't have more faster?

I don't understand the flaming, LL allows you to use their interface to make and sell creations.And be paid real money, I guess I've never understood why people are so hateful on LL. "Oh let us put our virtual world for people to access and use for free, and even let them make money! Im sure they'll all hate us for it, It'll be awesome!"

Maybe apply for a job at LL and help their market team? That might solve the problems more than being angry about it?

---

 

 

 

It depends on ones perspective of it all. There are two ways to look at it. Now, I see it like you. I'm just grateful for the opportunity to do something I enjoy and make a bit of pocket money out of it. Making LL your main source of income is asking for stress, in my opinion - and I guess you should go into it with your eyes wide open. It's your choice, and you can take it or leave it for what it is - a risk. The same risk you take whenever you decide to forfeit the reliable paycheck and go it alone.

Now I could continue on this subject forever because I see what I've gained, not what I've lost.

But the biggest outrage and hate towards LL will come if they shut down permanently.Then, once the fury dies down, people will realise the old saying ' you don't know what you got until it's gone'.

Has anyone come up with a decent alternative to SL yet? I don't think so. If LL were doing so well ripping us all off then why haven't others successfully followed their business model?

[Luna Bliss]

Hey Fraw..Rya...you guys should get a job as a Mole. I know you'd earn more per hour Rya and I bet you would too Fraw as teaching people always takes longer that you plan and so you'd get more with the 10 usd an hour as a Mole.

Here's a link that explains all about it:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/84679-mistys-goodbye.html

[Steph Catseye]

They say it is 3-5 days but it is almost always 5 days... this week it might be even longer.

The point is, that LindeX is nothing new and yet they are processing it manually even for those they have veryfied 100s of times already. People can argue that they are happy as much as they they want... this is horrible management. In the past people rather lost money to a 3rd party provider instead of using LindeX because the 3rd Party Providers delivered to our bank accounts within a day now we are forced back to the stone age. My Credit Card is charged always on time because it is their money, when it is about our money they have all the time in the world.

People with non USD accounts lose a buckload of cash due to the rip off conversion rate of PayPal.

We need quicker processing and more options. It should be a top priority but it is not. Like Alexxis said... they got their pay check today... I didn't

[Rya Nitely]

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Luna Bliss wrote:

Hey Fraw..Rya...you guys should get a job as a Mole. I know you'd earn more per hour Rya and I bet you would too Fraw as teaching people always takes longer that you plan and so you'd get more with the 10 usd an hour as a Mole.

Here's a link that explains all about it:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/84679-mistys-goodbye.html

---

I guess I'm fortunate enough to have an rl job that pays well, so that money isn't important to me. I can create just for fun. I don't need to charge much for my items, and I can spend a whole day or two on a custom job and then just give it to the customer for free.

Like Caliandris says in that thread you linked me to 'I love to build in Second Life, I like making things that other people will enjoy, and I like constant change and constant challenges... and if anything sums up Second Life, that's it: constant change, constant challenges'

Creators who put the money first, that's too bad, because you're missing out on so much of the satisfaction you get when you create just for the pure pleasure of creating. That satisfaction and pleasure has to be stifled by all the concerns about money.

[Jenny Siddeley]

To be honest, relying on SL for your money income is not really a good idea...

And while I would love it to be faster, all it takes is organization, it's not like you're not selling anything during those days. The amount of money you make in the end is exactly the same, it's not going to change because of this.

Personally I never had to wait longer than 5 days and the last time was not too long ago, did waiting 9 business days just happen once or did it become the norm for you?

Something's telling me it's just a temporary situation and way too early to complain about.

[Alexxis DeCuir]

If you had the decision to work at mcdonalds for minimum wage, or work from home whenever you want and make quadruple that.. which would you choose? This is why I rely on SL for my income.

[Luna Bliss]

Yayy... waves a happy flag @ Alexxis and other financially successful merchants in SL.

LL doesn't make it easy anymore, and then we have to encounter fellow merchants trashing us for being successful and/or minimizing our concerns over basic functionality in the Marketplace.

Rya, just because you haven't figured out how to be creative and concerned about money at the same time doesn't mean it's not possible! While you were reasonable in this thread, in other posts your reply of "don't worry be happy - smiley face" to people's legitimate concerns is getting old. Some people want to have a career as a freelancer here, it excites them, and even spurs them on to greater creativity.

[Rya Nitely]

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Luna Bliss wrote:

 

 

 

Rya, just because you haven't figured out how to be creative and concerned about money at the same time doesn't mean it's not possible! While you were reasonable in this thread, in other posts your reply of "don't worry be happy - smiley face" to people's legitimate concerns is getting old. Some people want to have a career as a freelancer here, it excites them, and even spurs them on to greater creativity.

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I'm not always 'don't worry be happy'. There are things that concern me.

For instance, at the moment I'm very very concerned about the flood of ripped mesh content on the market. This may not concern merchants who may be taking advantage of it themselves, but it concerns me   <- unhappy face

 

Edit to add: I just remembered something from a while back regarding mossy stone steps of mine - emphasis on mine. I'll say no more.

[Frawmusl]

I don't think anyone mentioned this so far in the thread when people are saying "It seems like 5 days when it says 3", I just wanted to point that is does say business days, and sorry but Saturday and Sunday don't count So you'll often have to deal with it being a bit longer than you expect unless you wit draw on monday/tueday each time. Otherwise its going to catch the weekend and be longer than what was expected

 

Edit :Also @Luna Bliss, I have a very nice RL job and just teach for fun really.. But the drama that students cause when given a free teacher is silly, so I charge to deal with them It might be fun being a mole, but I would rather take a dive into the other parts of LL, IE coding and graphics but I am all self taught in that so I would likely be declined. Well if they ever need someone to draft them a new HQ building or Autocad them some pipelines ^.^

[Jenny Siddeley]

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Alexxis DeCuir wrote:

If you had the decision to work at mcdonalds for minimum wage, or work from home whenever you want and make quadruple that.. which would you choose? This is why I rely on SL for my income.

---

The "work from home whenever you want" is not a stable job though, in fact it's not a job at all, LL didn't hire you, if you can make money thanks to SL, that's great, I have a lot of admiration for deservedly successful people, but it can stop anytime, it's out of your control, nothing can give you the guarantee that you'll make as much money as usual the next month, even if you work hard for it, maybe someone else worked harder and took your spot, etc.

That's what I meant. And not being prepared for it, or in other words, relying on SL for your RL money income without making sure you can handle earning less if it ever happens, is not a really bright idea.

 

Although the problem here is different, you had to wait 9 days instead of 3 or 5, not only it isn't that big of a problem even though you almost make it sound like you're going to starve soon (especially if you make 4 times the minimum wage, which is really nice!), but I'm pretty sure it's also temporary. In the end remember that you are not losing any money.

I could understand a topic where you would wonder why it took that long, but an aggressive message almost implying that they increased the delay on purpose to piss you off, is kinda weird to me. If I remember correctly, they said they're working on making the whole process faster, so it might just be an unfortunate side effect.

[Rya Nitely]

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Jenny Siddeley wrote:

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Alexxis DeCuir wrote:

If you had the decision to work at mcdonalds for minimum wage, or work from home whenever you want and make quadruple that.. which would you choose? This is why I rely on SL for my income.

---

The "work from home whenever you want" is not a stable job though, in fact it's not a job at all,

LL didn't hire you,

if you can make money thanks to SL, that's great, I have a lot of admiration for deservedly successful people, but it can stop anytime, it's out of your control, nothing can give you the guarantee that you'll make as much money as usual the next month, even if you work hard for it, maybe someone else worked harder and took your spot, etc.

That's what I meant. And not being prepared for it, or in other words,

relying on SL for your RL money income without making sure you can handle earning less if it ever happens, is not a really bright idea.

 

 

---

 

THIS ^^

I've taken the liberty of bolding the most important take-home messages.

People act like LL owe them a living. They owe you nothing. There was no contract or any other formal agreement between you and LL, except the TOS that you agreed to not so long ago - and I'm pretty sure it says in there that LL owe you nothing. And you can even lose the money you've accumulated in a second if they shut down. Try taking them to court and they'll shove that TOS in your face. Those are the conditions you are earning your income under. I don't envy you, or others like you. It's very brave what you're doing I will give you that. I thought about it too not so long ago, and I quickly realised the risks - now I'm concentrating hard on my rl job again.

[Luna Bliss]

Rya said:

"People act like LL owe them a living. They owe you nothing. There was no contract or any other formal agreement between you and LL, except the TOS that you agreed to not so long ago - and I'm pretty sure it says in there that LL owe you nothing. And you can even lose the money you've accumulated in a second if they shut down. Try taking them to court and they'll shove that TOS in your face. Those are the conditions you are earning your income under. I don't envy you, or others like you. It's very brave what you're doing I will give you that. I thought about it too not so long ago, and I quickly realised the risks - now I'm concentrating hard on my rl job again."

Ahhh..now we see the reason why you criticize those who simply ask (albeit sometimes grumpily) that the MP function well, and discourage anyone trying to earn money here. And now you say these people are acting like LL owes them a living?
I don't see a bunch of people running around acting like LL owes them a living - I know I sure don't - I know I have to work my A off mainly.
~~~~

Rya Said:
    "I'm not always 'don't worry be happy'. There are things that concern me.

For instance, at the moment I'm very very concerned about the flood of ripped mesh content on the market. This may not concern merchants who may be taking advantage of it themselves, but it concerns me :smileysad:   <- unhappy face

Edit to add: I just remembered something from a while back regarding mossy stone steps of mine - emphasis on mine. I'll say no more".
~~~~~~

I wasn't saying that I thought you were always worry-free, I was just commenting that some people have legitimate concerns regarding how LL treats them and your response of "just be like me and don't try to make money with it" as a solution is not responding to them in the best way.
I don't like excessive commercialism either, and I don't have much respect for people who make a career out of nothing more than ONLY making money, but your attitude of being willing to work for no money is not a solution, I mean I have to say YOU ARE THE CUSTOMER LL ALWAYS WANTED!

Another thing to consider in your disturbance over how LL does not respect creator rights - if LL does not respect our desire to receive compensation for our time and content creation they will not respect creators rights - kind of goes hand in hand.

Like you, most of my problems have been with the people within SL and not LL - hence my compassion for what LL employees have to deal with.
Still, we should confront LL when we think things are not going well. LL should welcome our complaints as a way to make things better - that will benefit all concerned. It's not necessarily 'flaming' as Frawmusl called it earlier - even if someone is grouchy this is to be expected really when the customer is frustrated.

[Luna Bliss]

Jenny you said:
 "The "work from home whenever you want" is not a stable job though, in fact it's not a job at all, LL didn't hire you, if you can make money thanks to SL, that's great, I have a lot of admiration for deservedly successful people, but it can stop anytime, it's out of your control, nothing can give you the guarantee that you'll make as much money as usual the next month, even if you work hard for it, maybe someone else worked harder and took your spot, etc.

That's what I meant. And not being prepared for it, or in other words, relying on SL for your RL money income without making sure you can handle earning less if it ever happens, is not a really bright idea."
~~~

I agree...if you have a stable job best not to abandon it for a job in SL, but someone like Alexxis who is already earning a decent income can always get a job flipping burgers if her SL job tanks. I guess one could argue that it might be best to build a better, more stable job in RL than spend time here. However, most jobs in RL these days are not so stable. Lots of creators are disabled too, and there is no RL job to go to.
Anyone considering quitting their day job and going to SL full-time should realize that it's much harder than it appears - most anyone who has made a significant amount of money here puts in 12 to 14 hour days, 7 days a week. I can't work that much anymore - it made me ill and I'm in the process of recovering.

[Luna Bliss]

Frawmusl Said:

   "I don't understand the flaming, LL allows you to use their interface to make and sell creations..And be paid real money, I guess I've never understood why people are so hateful on LL. "Oh let us put our virtual world for people to access and use for free, and even let them make money! Im sure they'll all hate us for it, It'll be awesome!"
~~~
I'm not sure you realize, as a new person, that it is the residents in SL who build SL. It is not like a typical game where a game developer pays a contract worker mega bucks to create the world. They need us (creators of content) as much as we need them, and there should be a mutual respect. I was not serious when I sent you over to SLUniverse to get a job as a Mole. I was actually showing an example of how this mutual respect as not been forthcoming from LL, and I wanted you to see that sometimes there is a reason for the frustrations of merchants.
This game belongs to LL for sure, and it has evolved to be more like other games despite user generated content, but long ago people thought it would be the metaverse (more like a platform), kind of like a 2nd world online where people were more free. People thought it should belong to everyone and not just some game-god, however LL has continually taken more control and I'm not sure the results are so good as we are hemorrhaging people and sims.  This is why you see the frustration of some oldies here - they do not like how SL evolved in this limited way and is now basic a little corporation controlled by those at the top.

It's interesting that you mentioned the part about clients having all the drama if they get lessons from you for free. I think this is such a good example of why we should never give things out for free - most customers do not really appreciate free items and automatically think of them as cheap and worthless. It's actually an insult to the customer as if you view them as a charity case or not capable of earning their part in the energy exchange between you. I do have a freebie appreciation gift to those in my store, but it is because I appreciate their support and want to give something back - good energy exchange. My Reiki (healing technique) teacher taught me this long ago - she often talked about an experiment in the beginnings of the Reiki system where people who received free treatments went back to their old ways while those who paid actually healed.

[Rya Nitely]

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Luna Bliss wrote:

 

 

Another thing to consider in your disturbance over how LL does not respect creator rights - if LL does not respect our desire to receive compensation for our time and content creation they will not respect creators rights - kind of goes hand in hand.

 

 

 

---

My concern isn't really with LL not respecting creators rights. The task of controlling it all might not be an easy one.

What I am more concerned and disappointed about is other creators who do not respect creators rights. And these are creators who consider themselves established and respectable - not your newbies or those hiding behind alts to sell stolen content. 

[Tari Landar]

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Jenny Siddeley wrote:

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Alexxis DeCuir wrote:

If you had the decision to work at mcdonalds for minimum wage, or work from home whenever you want and make quadruple that.. which would you choose? This is why I rely on SL for my income.

---

The "work from home whenever you want" is not a stable job though, in fact it's not a job at all, LL didn't hire you, if you can make money thanks to SL, that's great, I have a lot of admiration for deservedly successful people, but it can stop anytime, it's out of your control, nothing can give you the guarantee that you'll make as much money as usual the next month, even if you work hard for it, maybe someone else worked harder and took your spot, etc.

That's what I meant. And not being prepared for it, or in other words, relying on SL for your RL money income without making sure you can handle earning less if it ever happens, is not a really bright idea.

 

---

I did this for a while, used sl profits primarily for rl expenses. For many, I'd honestly venture a guess at most, and I doubt I'd be wrong, this isn't a realistic long term practice. It's great while it lasts but in the blink of an eye ANYTHING can change. I knew that going into it, because this is not my first work from home rodeo. I knew what I was getting into and I knew if(when) it becomes less of a steady income and more of a "cool I got monies", I needed to break out the backup plan. It happens, and it's not a bad thing. It's also not a bad thing to make your rl income in sl. There are actually a lot more people that do this than people think. But what some, again I'd venture at many, don't tell you is that this income isn't their household's sole source. Which is why it's easier to pay say, half, of the bills or something with sl. It's also far easier to say you live off your sl profits when you're not actually supporting a whole household on your sl income.

I am probably not the norm because I approach any and all income with this same mindset. At any point in time, things can change. Sometimes, you can't plan and you can't have a backup, or it fails. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try, though. Lots of things can happen to change your station in life or your current financial expenses. I've experienced that. When one of my kiddos was stuck in the hospital for a month, although I had as much savings as possible, bills still suffered. The utility companies don't care if you're waiting on your payment from cashing in virtual currency, they really don't. I promise you. "I didn't make enough sales this month" isn't a good enough reason to not turn you off, if they see fit.

Don't get me wrong I am sooo grateful we can make anything. I'm grateful that although I had to scale way, way, way back, I can still create and I can still pay for my sl. That's awesome. If I had to go back though, I'm not sure I ever would have used sl as a sole source of income, even with planning in place for more than short-term. It's just way too risky with too many variables that you can't possibly control.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

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Luna Bliss wrote:

 

 

Another thing to consider in your disturbance over how LL does not respect creator rights - if LL does not respect our desire to receive compensation for our time and content creation they will not respect creators rights - kind of goes hand in hand.

 

 

 

---

My concern isn't really with LL not respecting creators rights. The task of controlling it all might not be an easy one.

What I am more concerned and disappointed about is other creators who do not respect creators rights. And these are creators who consider themselves established and respectable - not your newbies or those hiding behind alts to sell stolen content. 

---

Actually it still comes down to the company. Related to the other thread as an example, Turbosquid doesn't have much of a problem with stolen goods or people selling others goods without permission in their marketplace, nor do most reputable affiliate marketplaces.

The reason is because these companies have policies that respect their customers and content producers and enforce them promptly.

I'm afraid the entire thing does come down to a lack of respect on LL's part.

Lack of respect to provide a marketplace that does more than optimizes sales the way LL wants them optimized. Lack of respect to enforce good tools, prompt payments, protections for consumers, communication, etc.

We'd be having less of a conversation about whether being an entreprenuer as a content creator was a wise move if LL were acting as a mature company rather than a monetization machine for suckers.

Sorry, but this far less of an issue on sites that do take the entrepreneur bit seriously. It's well understood that you're on your own if you risk self-employment. It's not whether the entrepreneur is valid as a risk taker, it's whether the company is worth trusting as a valid business partner.

LL doesn't offer that level of professionalism needed in the first place. In fact, by its very nature of free play mechanics it caters to the lowest denominator, while at the same time the various CEO's of LL have praised the amount of money generated by users content, as well as the ability to make money.

In fact, that's pretty much the current message in their press releases and their intended goal by acquiring Desura ... so that they can promote even more business opportunities for indie game developers and content creators. Not only does LL promote the entreprenuer, they're picking up their efforts to do so.

Dealing with proper tools, a professional environment for creators, a stable market and theft is a ball that has always been in LL's court. Other affiliates manage it all just fine. LL does not.

[Lexi Zelin]

LOL Alexxis You said it so perfectly my love <3 I have a degree in nursing. I havent be in the nursing field for 2 years because of SecondLife. So, do I want to bust my a$$ all day, giving shots and keeping charts or do I want to do what I'm really good at and make art and get paid waaaay more then being an LPN? Um yes. 

The change in terms shocked alot of us and being forced to use Lindenx or whatever it's called sucks but if you transfer your money out every single day eventually you will get money every day. I transfer out sometimes 2 or 3 times a day. What you transfer out today you will have sometime next week that's just how you have to do it really. Or at least that's what's worked for me.

[Jenny Siddeley]

Don't forget that it's a manual process, the more often people transfer out, the more likely it's going to take more than 5 days. I'm sure you can easily handle switching to a weekly or even monthly transfer rate.

Also, transfering more often means more fees and less RL money for you in the end (not much but still).

[jazon Uxlay]

while i have no problem with the current paypal prossesing as it stands now as i have never had to wait over 5 days,

i do think they could save themsleves some work if they had an automated or instant payout system for people who cash out regularly  with like amounts minimizing risks,and its not like they could not get a refund from pappal should they let a bad payment get through,i believe paypal gives 15 days for such returns of funds and a companay that uses them as much as LL would probly get special treatment.

[Steph Catseye]

just checking in to report that LL now has failed 3 times in a row to deliver the payment within 5 business days to me and at least 3 other friends I have talked to.

Now since "work" is piling up, maybe they should not stare at the office clock all day in order to go home in time and cash their pay check, maybe someone should explain to them that the people who are waiting for their money are the people are that made their pay check happen

I could easily live with an occasional delay but now the delay has become the norm and here is a principle involved.

It is the total abuse of a monoply.

Cashing in on the monoply was already a crazy overreaction to the money laundering ammendment. LL took a chance and took back a market with force that they had already lost.

Once again their own customers had beaten them with a better product and service and now since they have this service exclusive there is no more money to lose to a competition and therefore they don't even care anymore.