Informations about earnings

[FezVrasta]

If the warm welcome for a new designer is to kill him because he uses a word that (in fact) is the correct word for describe the software you use, I can't just imagine how the people are inside SL.

Following your thought of "it's not a game because there aren't winners or loser" we should say that two children who play to be a princess and a prince, without any rule and just with their imagination, aren't playing a game but they are.. working? reciting?

Wake up, this is a game. A video-game, for be precise.

 

I've not insulted no one, I've just thought that MAYBE she lives in SL, and that's not an insult, a person is free to do what he/she wants with his/her life. I'm not here for judge, and my was just a guess of her life syle, no more.

[Rolig Loon]

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FezVrasta wrote:

[...]

 

Following your thought of "it's not a game because there aren't winners or loser" we should say that two children who play to be a princess and a prince, without any rule and just with their imagination, aren't playing a game but they are.. working? reciting?

Wake up, this is a game. A video-game, for be precise.

[...]

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Yeah, that's why I said that the argument gets a little old and that it has no single answer. :smileywink:  My only point was that the reaction you got from iCade is a real one and that you ought to be aware of it if you want to set up as a creator in SL.  If you'll note, I haven't said anything unfriendly in my posts here.  I really would like to see you bring your talents to SL.  I just encourage you to keep asking questions and keep your eyes open.  Whether SL is a game or not, it's not the sort of "game" that a lot of people think it is before they get here.

[FezVrasta]

It's just like every virtual world, just with more user creation possibilities.

By the way I earn from a single game about 400US$ per month, with about 20 hours of work each month. I'm not sure I could get some near this with Second Life, or am I wrong?

[Rolig Loon]

That's not a bad target.  You might be able to do that if you put some time into marketing or work with someone who's more interested in that side of the business.  I usually hit or exceed my $100 target without trying terribly hard but then (1) I earn about 60% of my SL income from scripting, not building and texturing, and (2) I've had six years to build up a good list of repeat customers.  If I wanted to earn $400 a month, I'd have to spend a lot more of my "free time" in SL doing it, and I'd probably increase my advertizing budget to raise visibility.

You can't use these forums to advertize, BTW, but you can certainly watch the various creator forums to see who the more prolific creators are, and then get to know them in world. You can also post in the InWorld Employment forum. 

[iCade]

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FezVrasta wrote:

If the warm welcome for a new designer is to kill him because he uses a word that (in fact) is the correct word for describe the software you use, I can't just imagine how the people are inside SL.

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You sure are a grade A drama queen aren't you? Or is there a good reason why you keep bringing this up in every single one of your posts since I posted?

You're exactly the type of creator who will make it very far here /sarcasm.

Also, your childish and immature presumptions about my life style are hilarious. Really, they are, but whatever floats your boat.

Good luck, you will need it.

 

Edit: English isn't my first language but your double negatives about not offending anyone actually make it a positive leading you to admit that you offended someone.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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FezVrasta wrote:

It's just like every virtual world, just with more user creation possibilities.

 

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I have yet to find anything remotely like Second Life. please share.

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FezVrasta wrote:

 

By the way I earn from a single game about 400US$ per month, with about 20 hours of work each month. I'm not sure I could get some near this with Second Life, or am I wrong?

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Bully for you. With your attitude about the users of SL I would say you wouldn't make much money.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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FezVrasta wrote:

 

Following your thought of "it's not a game because there aren't winners or loser" we should say that two children who play to be a princess and a prince, without any rule and just with their imagination, aren't playing a game but they are.. working? reciting?

 

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The word is "playing" but they aren't playing a "game." The role of Indiana Jones was "played" by Harrison Ford - does this mean Raiders of the Lost Ark was a game?

[Amethyst Jetaime]

To make money, you are going to have to spend time in world not only making your creations but promoting them networking with people and marketing them and participating in the community. 

Most people will not buy from a merchant that is not active in the community for a lot of good reasons.  Giving good customer service is one.  If you only come into SL once in a while to set up new products, you aren't going to be able to do that.  Another one is that many marketing studies have shown that SL residents only like to spend their money buying from active SL residents and being a resident means more than just having an account here.  They want to support fellow residents.  They want to support the SL economy.  Even those creators that make their RL living here spend part of their earnings in the community.

Finding a business partner to work with to handle all the other aspects of the business besides making the textures may be an option, but no one is going to work with you that way unless they trust you and trust takes time to build.  Making the textures is only half or less of the work involved in running a successful business.  So be prepared to split all income at the least 50/50 . 

You could hire someone to do all the other stuff for you, but you'd have to pay them and people with the skills and connections needed to produce the results you are looking for won't come cheap. 

You say you haven't insulted anyone by calling it a game, but you have and the fact that you don't understand that means you know nothing about SL.  Some residents are gamers and come here to play games and those people tend to think of it as a game. I understand that and am not insulted by them thinking that way.  But most are not here to game.  They are here to socialize like they do in RL, for the friendships even in some cases love that ends up in RL marriage, for being part of a world community, for serious discussions, for serious learning (there are RL universities here that teach RL classes).

Many are here for an outlet for their creativity.  There are many RL singers and musicians here that play live music and concerts. There are artists here creating serious art that in some cases has ended up being exhibited in RL by galleries and museums.  There are actors here that put on plays and dancers who create and or coordinate animations to produce dance.

Many help raise money for charities and have raised many millions of RL dollars for charity through fund raising events and generous donations from SL residents.  What "game" ever produces those results? 

Many residents, and therefore your potential customers,  are disabled and come to SL to live a life that is impossible for them in RL. The majority of these folks don't tell anyone they are disabled, with the exception of a few close friends.  So you'd never know it.  How do you think they'd feel if you marginalize them by saying  "You, who maybe live in it and forget to have a real life out there, can call it "life simulation" "alternative life" etc, I call it just game."

Most people in SL have a RL and a full one at that.  They have RL jobs, families, and social lives outside of SL.

SL may not have the fancy cutting edge graphics of games like PSHome, which I wouldn't give you two cents for because I don't like games.  I've been in most all virtual worlds myself and none of them come close to the full and rich experiences you can have in SL. But you'll never understand that unless you actually come in world participate in it and experience it for yourself.

[FezVrasta]

Thank you for your reply and the useful informations.

I'll think if join or not this place.

[Perrie Juran]

I don't know if you'll be back but if you are the same FezVrasta that I found on Deviant Art I'd make this observation.

If you are interested in being a part of SL, you might want to consider learning how to make eyes.

The images I saw on Deviant, while nice weren't extraordinary.....until I got to the one image I saw there of eyes.  That one really caught my attention.

Yes, I did a brief search to see if I could find any of your work.

[FezVrasta]

If you are talking about my manga artworks the eyes are not so well done because mine are 100% vector images, and I can't have good gradients or little details.

And by the way manga drawings are a thing completly different from make a texture.

[Perrie Juran]

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FezVrasta wrote:

If you are talking about my manga artworks the eyes are not so well done because mine are 100% vector images, and I can't have good gradients or little details.

And by the way manga drawings are a thing completly different from make a texture.

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I understand they are two different things.

What intrigued me was this picture which is why I made the comment about eyes.

http://fezvrasta.deviantart.com/art/Eyes-Gallery-114550768

There is an actual market for eyes in SL and people can be very fussy about them.  One girl I know matches her eye color to her outfits and I think she owns more eyes than shoes!

There have been a number of threads devoted to them.  Here's an example.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Your-Avatar/The-eyes-thread/td-p/731235/highlight/true

[Slutty Blogger]

Oh...your texture art is making pictures of Pokemon characters..."coff coff" yourself. Be aware that such derivative images cannot be sold in SL unless you are the copyright holder, even if you apply them to a mesh object.

[FezVrasta]

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Slutty Blogger wrote:

Oh...your texture art is making pictures of Pokemon characters..."coff coff" yourself. Be aware that such derivative images cannot be sold in SL unless you are the copyright holder, even if you apply them to a mesh object.

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Emh excuse me, have I told that my textures are manga draws? I can't find where I wrote this thing.

What means the "coff coff" youself? There are the sources downloadable for free, you can see the entire draws are made by me.

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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FezVrasta wrote:

If you are talking about my manga artworks the eyes are not so well done because mine are 100% vector images, and I can't have good gradients or little details.

And by the way manga drawings are a thing completly different from make a texture.

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I understand they are two different things.

What intrigued me was this picture which is why I made the comment about eyes.

http://fezvrasta.deviantart.com/art/Eyes-Gallery-114550768

There is an actual market for eyes in SL and people can be very fussy about them.  One girl I know matches her eye color to her outfits and I think she owns more eyes than shoes!

There have been a number of threads devoted to them.  Here's an example.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Your-Avatar/The-eyes-thread/td-p/731235/highlight/true

Have you noticed that the image you linked is 4 years old right? And it's just a photo manipulation, no more.

[Perrie Juran]

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Slutty Blogger wrote:

Oh...your texture art is making pictures of Pokemon characters..."coff coff" yourself. Be aware that such derivative images cannot be sold in SL unless you are the copyright holder, even if you apply them to a mesh object.

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 I don't see where he said that the textures he wanted to sell were his Manga art.  In fact he wrote, "And by the way manga drawings are a thing completly different from make a texture."  I think he knows the difference.  Cough, cough, cough.

[Perrie Juran]

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FezVrasta wrote:

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Have you noticed that the image you linked is 4 years old right? And it's just a photo manipulation, no more.

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Yes I saw that.  Based on what I saw there and what I know about eyes in SL I made what I felt was a viable business suggestion.  You are looking to make money in SL and a good eye for eyes could do that for you.

You mentioned making textures for games.  When it comes to Virtual Worlds, many of them are built on a backward engineering of Second Life and hence things that work here will work in other Virtual Worlds also.  So there is a broader market for these things (eyes) than just SL.

But it may not be something that interests you.  It was just a suggestion.

 

eta for clarity

[Drake1 Nightfire]

i asked earlier what virual worlds he makes textures for so we could perhaps get an idea of the style. I have yet to get a reply.

[FezVrasta]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

i asked earlier what virual worlds he makes textures for so we could perhaps get an idea of the style. I have yet to get a reply.

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Sorry I can't say it, but I've developed for PSHome, and if you know the quality standard you should get the idea.

 

@Perrie Juran: Ok I've got it, I thought you was saying that my "eyes image" was not good and so I would need to learn how to make them better.

[Poenald Palen]

First, you ask here because I assume you make clothing? Clothing has fierce competition, but some must make something at it. BTW, the linden dollar is very low in it's worth and 250-280 is what it takes to buy 1USD$ of real money. BUt, items sell for a few hundred IF they are good, but there is a lot of competition for clothes and quickly made or imprescise ones sell low. Mesh objects seem to sell more, but you may buy premade....below will explain some of this...but first, an easy business option....

Maybe seek out a company in world called Tru textures and see if they are accepting artists. She will know more about what her artists may earn and if you can be one. BUT, look at what they make first to see if you can makeit. If not, then maybe seek a partner and ask what they will pay you and maybe even make textures for more than one company and do it for contract, not so much as a partner...but, this work seems few and far between to me.

There are three resources I will tell you about. The Forums here have a "Employment" or wanted section. These are the place to go IF you decide to partner or look for work AND there are in world employment agencies that might help, but I warn you ahead that there are not a lot of "jobs" and and most people are independent especially when it comes to creation. SO, that is one resource...the forums for merchants, wanted and employment. Looking for a partner might work, and that partner will tell you how much they make and what they need you to do IF you can find one. If not, read below about how to find out how textures work, you can actually sell textures all by themselves in seamless, alpha out, particle usage (smoke or magic, or maybe even leaves from a tree) etc. This will help you evaluate time, if there are opportunities enough to partner and so on....onto the second one...

wiki.secondlife.com is the official place for all kinds of information. It will help you learn things from business to texturing rules and abilities of prims, sculpted prims (speical to SL...they use UV mappign trick to create a shape and have specific texturing limits) and how SL uses mesh and UV mapping for that mesh (oh, as well as mateirals...did anyone mention there isn't full controllable bump mappign or nomral mappign yet? It is arriving though! Specular mapping to, but maybe months away from completion BUT you may test it....the wiki will also tell you about beta veiwers and testing, as well as these forums and the Blog posts made by Linden Lab) and basically you will want to read about permissions and business to make sure you are not getting into trouble.

Also, a third resource is marketplace.secondlife.com and this is the marketplace that is official, of course selling from stores in world is also an option and for some things it is prefferable BUT if you sell stand alone textures then this is maybe the best place because people are buying flat textures and they display very well and the keywords allow them to find just the right item form you! It is cheap as it can get as well, only 10L per upload of a texture and they sell for either than much each sale or maybe more like 50L or so, hundreds for good packs that go together. This site will let you see the catagories (notice there is one that says 'Textures' ! Yes, many build on thier own and buy things like that) and there are aslo full permission items that are mesh WITH downloadbale items IF that person allows it, and it will be at thier own website or download site and they might have a license you agree to. Usually it is common sense, so the license is not bad. But, you basically get that mesh and then paint on it. Then, you sell it by uploading it and taking pictures. The Wiki.seocndlife.com site has information about all of this.

Once again, you may want to check out Tru, as well as any other texture companies that sell for others (I can't remember thier names, sorry) . They sell mostly just textures, seamless or alpha/clear cutout, photo manipulated, painted, rendered or whatever you have made....like, a control panel or a display meant to be glowing and transparent....the user sets the glow in the shaders settings on thier object and also can set transparency there to....this is a small example of how you are providing for a user while not having to hang out with them, talking to them. If you can make frames of animation, I have seen animated sets of a few textures sell for a few hundred or so. Tru has a huge amount of textures and I am not sure if tey still accept work but they will evaluate if they want you....gosh , I can't remember the other company. Oh well.

You can sell independently, although support is low for my items (considering they are programmed and move and such, my earnings are a few dollars a month...if even that, USD$ that is....a few hundred L$) and I can't imagine textures needed much tech support, unless animated frames are being sold...they take a scipt and you would need to sell one with them. I do know if you want to make more money you need many many items and also work at promoting and running events, sales announcements and fun stuff through groups that they run or subsciption services in which people get news and compeitions are announced and run....or any number of things to promote and keep people wanting to come back.

As far as partners go, I would be careful to understand and seek a out of world contract of some kind...depending on how things work out. Also, the marketplace.secondlife.com has provisions, settings and so on for partners to split income so I know this happens and this is another reason why people point to marketplace.secondlife.com for selling. There are also vendor systems that are made by programmers/scripters that splilt money between people and thier programming is hidden from the person who technically owns the vending system that is displayed to sell things in. Maybe those help with partnerships as well. But, do read about permissions and maybe remember you can always work for contract and get paid up front IF you can find anyone wanting this.

Good luck and maybe find something you like in SL, that way you may at least have fun while you are here and have no loss. Average earnings are not high, mostly land owners where earning money renting and the more prolific and larger companies made money. But, I don't do all of the things they do so I can't say it WILL work...but average earnings are low here, they don't post the figures anymore but some do work here for money but it is not much and others are granfathered in with low land fees and own large amounts and rent them.....this is hard to do and simulators cost hundreds to buy at first! texures...not sure anyone will say much, they might not want competition as well so maybe that is why I hear little of earnings lol.

[FezVrasta]

Thanks @Poenald Palen, your reply is very useful.

I'm not sure SL is the right place for me, seems a bit too open and with little earnings, the only thing I think could be ok sell textures to the marketplace.
I mean not the finished dresses, but just textures I make, that other developers can use for make their own clothes.

I'd like to know how could I submit something if I've not Second Life credits, there's a place where I can buy them?

In marketplace I cannot find the texture category you've told about, could you link it to me? So I can see the prices range for textures.
I make photorealistic textures, based on my own real photographies usually.

Thank you.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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FezVrasta wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

i asked earlier what virual worlds he makes textures for so we could perhaps get an idea of the style. I have yet to get a reply.

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Sorry I can't say it, but I've developed for PSHome, and if you know the quality standard you should get the idea.

 

@

Perrie Juran

: Ok I've got it, I thought you was saying that my "eyes image" was not good and so I would need to learn how to make them better.

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Why can't you say? Are you afraid to show off your work?  BTW.. PSHome is nothing like SL with regards to user created content.

So, after doing a quick search for PSHome I noticed that they have very little regard ofr copyrights there.. Most all of the images i saw were of a movie or game character. One we know have stated they do not allow this.

If I understand what i read any content created is applied to specific mesh models with set resolutions from Sony. There is no true "user created content", meaning i can'y go somewhere make a structure and texture it what ever i want. shapes and texture sizes are predetermined by Sony.

That is a huge difference in how it is done in SL.. I can create any mesh shaoe i want and texture it with 64x64, 128x128, 256x256, 512x512, 1024x1024, 2048x2048 or any combination of them.. hell it could have different resolutions on every face.

PSHome is also only available on the PS.. How do you get your textures on there? Do you submit them to a website? 

I'm just curious.

[FezVrasta]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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FezVrasta wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

i asked earlier what virual worlds he makes textures for so we could perhaps get an idea of the style. I have yet to get a reply.

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Sorry I can't say it, but I've developed for PSHome, and if you know the quality standard you should get the idea.

 

@

Perrie Juran

: Ok I've got it, I thought you was saying that my "eyes image" was not good and so I would need to learn how to make them better.

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Why can't you say? Are you afraid to show off your work?  BTW.. PSHome is nothing like SL with regards to user created content.

So, after doing a quick search for PSHome I noticed that they have very little regard ofr copyrights there.. Most all of the images i saw were of a movie or game character. One we know have stated they do not allow this.

If I understand what i read any content created is applied to specific mesh models with set resolutions from Sony. There is no true "user created content", meaning i can'y go somewhere make a structure and texture it what ever i want. shapes and texture sizes are predetermined by Sony.

That is a huge difference in how it is done in SL.. I can create any mesh shaoe i want and texture it with 64x64, 128x128, 256x256, 512x512, 1024x1024, 2048x2048 or any combination of them.. hell it could have different resolutions on every face.

PSHome is also only available on the PS.. How do you get your textures on there? Do you submit them to a website? 

I'm just curious.

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PSHome doesn't allow user contents at all, you must be a certified developer for submit contents. (Developers in PSHome should be about 20 I guess)

And they take care about copyright, all games related contents are developed by the software house of the games or by developers paid by the game's developers. Same for movies characters.

In PSHome you can make your own mesh, create areas and also games in it (for example there are few First Person Shoter, some race game etc)

I hope I've cleared your doubts

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Look under Building and Object Components > Textures.  Depending on what you are doing they would either go under Clothing or Fabric.  You will see the prices vary widely BUT if your textures are top notch creators will pay a fair price.  Suggest you sort low to high then high to low to get an idea of the price ranges.

It doesn't cost to sell on MP and uploading is free.  LL takes a 5 percent commission on anything that sells. 

You can find all the details by logging in , using your username and password you use here and in SL.  Then at the top of your screen click the My Marketplace > Merchant Home.  This is where you set up your store and also  where you can find links to answer most questions.  Any advice or questions you can't find answers to, you can post in the Commerce > Merchants forum.  There are a lot of experienced creators that read that and answer things.

[FezVrasta]

Thank you, I've found the building textures but I can't find the clothing ones...

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?search%5Bcategory_id%5D=23&search%5Bmaturity%5D%5B%5D=General&search%5Bmaturity%5D%5B%5D=Moderate&search%5Bmaturity%5D%5B%5D=Adult&search%5Bpage%5D=2&search%5Bper_page%5D=12

Could you please link the section to me as I did for this one? Thank you.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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FezVrasta wrote:

Thank you, I've found the building textures but I can't find the clothing ones...

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?search%5Bcategory_id%5D=23&search%5Bmaturity%5D%5B%5D=General&search%5Bmaturity%5D%5B%5D=Moderate&search%5Bmaturity%5D%5B%5D=Adult&search%5Bpage%5D=2&search%5Bper_page%5D=12

Could you please link the section to me as I did for this one? Thank you.

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Second one down in that list... Clothing textures.. That wasn't so hard, was it? People in SL don't buy clothing textures and make their own clothing. Merchants make the clothing layers and then sell those. Not many merchants buy premade clothing textures anymore.