Informations about earnings

[FezVrasta]

Hello, I'm an individual texture developer in other games and I'd like to join the Second Life marketplace.

I'm just not sure about what kind of earnings I could get from this game, I'm looking for real money (I'm not interessed in the game itself), and I can't find clear informations about that.

 

My question is:

Can I earn real US$ selling clothes in Second Life?

 

Thank you,
Fez.

[valerie Inshan]

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FezVrasta wrote:

Hello, I'm an individual texture developer in other games and I'd like to join the Second Life marketplace.

I'm just not sure about what kind of earnings I could get from this game, I'm looking for real money (I'm not interessed in the game itself), and I can't find clear informations about that.

 

My question is:

Can I earn real US$ selling clothes in Second Life?

 

Thank you,

Fez.

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1. This is not a game.

2. You can earn real money if you're a talented designer AND if you are caring and supportive to your customers, meaning ready to spend time and pay more than a minimum attention in SL.

Not sure Second Life is for you. :smileyindifferent:

[FezVrasta]

Thanks for your "kind" reply.

I'm a talented designer, I work with other games, included PlayStation Home.

 

So it is possible to earn US$ selling clothings? There's an official page about fees, conversion rate (Second life $ > US$) etc?

 

Thank you.

[Paul Hexem]

The short answer is yes, you can cash out your earnings into USD.

 

The real answer is, based on your first post, you won't earn enough to even cover the fees for cashing out.

[FezVrasta]

Thank you both.

So I could convert L$ in US$, well.
You are talking about "cost for make the cloth", what it means? Must I pay something for create a new cloth?

Need I a special subscription to be able to make clothes?

Thanks.

[Lukeh Ghost]

Costs for making clothes depends on your method.

Each texture will cost you L$10 to upload regardless of it's use everytime you upload a texture it is L$10

If you are creating mesh then depending on the complexity of the mesh item it can vary from L$15 to anything above that.

But that is all one off whilst you create your clothing. once you created your clothing item you can distribute it for free on the marketplace in Second Life. they do take about 5% of the sale for delievery charges.

If you choose a store in Second Life itself like a physical store then that's where money will go. the land can cost around L$1000 a week if you have a high prim large land size. and again L$10 for every texture uploaded.

[Paul Hexem]

No.

 

There are upload fees for textures and for mesh. Not much, only a few L$, but if you want to make enough to be able to cash out, you need to be uploading enough inventory to fill a small store.

 

On top of that, you should rent some land and set up an in-world store along with the marketplace website. Which means investing money for that, and that can cost quite a bit more.

[Ren Toxx]

Clothes are made of either direct, actual textures (for skin-tight system layer clothing), sculpted objects (which require separate textures for both the surface and the actual 3D model), and / or mesh objects (which again requires actual textures for the surfaces, and a 3D model specifically uploaded as a mesh). All textures must be uploaded to Second Life and cost exactly 10 L$ per texture, regardless of resolution and contents, whereas uploaded mesh models have a variable cost, I think; but since even non-mesh clothing (that is, clothing made only of system layers and/or sculpts) will usually end up requiring an undeterminate number of individual textures depending on how they're made, in the end you could consider their cost variable, too.

No paid subscription is strictly necessary for any of this, so the previous are, you could say, the 'minimum costs'. Still, and as others have already suggested, if you invest only on these and insist on a strictly 'hands-off' policy regarding any kind of actual interaction with Second Life and its residents beyond merely building... in that case, and unless you're insanely talented and insanely lucky (and if you are, I'd think there are other, far more profitable venues than Second Life for you), you're still going to earn very little, if anything at all. Why?

 

Because, again as has already been mentioned, even if you create a badass piece of clothing and put it on sale, nobody is going to purchase it if they don't even know it exists... which means promoting and advertising... which may already mean more non-building involvement in Second Life than you seem willing to.

Then again, you could create a Marketplace store, which is almost free (LL take their comission), and some people used to browsing it might get to see your products. But would they trust you to buy them, even if they looked nice in the Marketplace pic? Most won't unless you provide free demos (which will be free for them, but not for you, since you'll still have to upload material specifically designed as such)... another collateral investment you might not have foreseen.

Then again, and even just for those Marketplace products, you'd have to create nice pictures that appeal potential customers... which means learning about several aspects of Second Life not 100% related to building and selling, and for which you might need at least some input from users... ranging from builders, photographers, overall SL experts and even plain customers.

Even after all that, you might start selling a bit, but most likely nowhere near enough to consider what you seem to consider 'real money'. Most first-time, MP-only creators end up finding it convenient to build an in-world, 'physical' store to complement, or even take the main slice of your sales... which means yet another round of learning, building, money & time investment...

Not to mention successful creators have always found it wise to keep good relationships with both customers and SL bloggers, so that they start helping you in 'spreading the word' on your creations. So that means a whole range of things, from freebies, lucky chairs, group gifts, announcements, getting to know the SL blogosphere, keeping contact with them and possibly sending free reviewing copies, many forms of in-world advertising, maybe hiring some people to help you with at least part of it all, etc.

 

That's why the short answer to your initial question was 'yes', but the real answer, considering your apparent unwillingness to engage in any other aspect of SL besides pure building, is 'most likely not'.

[FezVrasta]

Thank you, your reply helped me a lot.

I can't figure out why a professional developer should join the Second Life marketplace if there aren't good earnings and there are lot of costs...

Best regards,
Fez.

[Ren Toxx]

It's possible, Fez... it's happened, there are many succesful SL creators who actually make their RL living off Second Life's earnings. We're just trying to convey that it's not easy... and it's nearly impossible with a completely 'hands-off' approach, especially at the beginning.

The very fact that you didn't know this, and had to ask (and therefore interact with) other Second Life residents even if through these lateral forums instead of in-world, is proof of that :smileywink:

[FezVrasta]

I usually play the games where I work, but Second Life, in my opinion (and after I've played PSHOme), has not the quality I pretend from games of this type. So I'd like to just pubblish contents in it.

According to what you said the chance to lost cash instead of earn it's high, and the profits are not so high if I'd like to sell just into the web store.

Have I understood correctly?

[Ren Toxx]

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FezVrasta wrote: [...] Have I understood correctly? [...]

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Pretty much, yes.

Nevertheless, a possibly viable option for you would be to establish some kind of business partnership with one or more residents who will tackle for you all those aspects of SL which you don't want to engage into, but are still quite necessary for your planned business to succeed. In fact that's what many, if not all successful creators end up doing, once they're firmly established: they concentrate on creating, and leave all the other, more social aspects of SL for their trusted staff, partners, etc.

[Rolig Loon]

If you come to SL planning to make a lot of money, you'll probably lose your shirt.  Unlike most "games" where you might set up shop, Second Life thrives on the contributions of amateurs like me who are not in it to make money but to enjoy creating things.  We'll undersell you every time. Not on purpose -- just because we aren't in it for the income.   And don't assume that we can't produce high quality just because we are amateurs.  There's a lot of junk in the market, but a lot of excellent, low-priced --- even free -- work too. The competiation is strong enough that you really shouldn't expect to make big money.  Come, join us, have fun, but don't expect to pay your RL bills.

[FezVrasta]

Thank you, I think there aren't enough earning possibilities here, thanks for all your kind replies.

[Lukeh Ghost]

Professional people join Second Life to share their creations with masses of people. 

There isn't "A lot" of costs it just depends on how you want to run your business.

People who join Second Life already have some profession. And most of them can make and earn money in Second Life enough to keep their business running in Second Life using their earning to pay for the costs but don't expect anything from Real Life.

You are trying to use Second Life to make money you will have a very unhappy result. The professional people currently in Second Life are actually here sociallising being people and using their Real World skils in Second Life for nothing more but Second Life gain.

[Spinell]

May I throw in a suggestion?

You mentioned you have a lot of texturing experience but I couldn't quite understand in what aspect. So, I'm thinking you're more specialised to texturing only. Clothing creation involves much much more than just texturing, so my personal advice was to find a partner or already-existing business and work as a texturer for that business and get commission for each clothing piece that gets sold. That way, you don't have to worry about costumer service (let your partner manage the store and business) and you can dedicate yourself simply to the creative process.

Currently there are two main types of clothing:

*System clothing (uses templates)

*Mesh clothing

I wouold suggest focusing on system clothing, as it might be easier to get in at first. Textures are still HIGHLY apreciated in Sl, especially in clothing. You might also take part in the full creation of the clothes by learning some basic prim building in SL (it's really not hard to learn at all).

Unless your partner knows mesh very well, and is able to explain what he needs from you, stick with this option.

Now, how to find a partner is something I can't really help, since I have little clue, but I'm sure someone else here in the forums might help you get an idea.

How about trying this for a few months? One thing I can assure you: builders in SL always need textures.

 

EDIT: I'd just like to add that I never found SL businesses to be costly. I work mostly with mesh and that raises costs up a bit, but I've always managed to make my money back.

[FezVrasta]

Thank you for your reply.
Yes I make textures, not mesh, usually I get the 3d model and then I make textures.
For example, starting from the model of a simple shirt I can make hundreds of different clothes, from bra to tops, t-shirts etc...

Considering the... coff coff, high quality of 3d models in Second Life I think a good texture with a bump map can do miracles.

I don't know how to find a developer who needs just textures, and I can't join SF because, first of all, my eight core computer that I use for work with professional softwares can barely run Second Life viewer... and second and more important, I'm too busy with other works for start playing this game...

Somebody has an advice for get in touch with a developer who could need textures?
Thanks.

[iCade]

This isn't a game, you've been told that before, yet insist on calling it such.

You lack fundamental understanding of what SL even is. I suggest you do not invest yourself in it as a creator. You will not be able to give even the most basic costumer service, which will break your neck.

Go make money in an actual game, SL is not one.

[FezVrasta]

Game, short for multi-user virtual environment, and, what I see? It's just a 3d game with a different kind of purpose. So I can call it GAME.

You, who maybe live in it and forget to have a real life out there, can call it "life simulation" "alternative life" etc, I call it just game.

Can we back in topic please?

[Perrie Juran]

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FezVrasta wrote:

Game, short for 

multi-user virtual environment

, and, what I see? It's just a 3d game with a different kind of purpose. So I can call it GAME.

You, who maybe live in it and forget to have a real life out there, can call it "life simulation" "alternative life" etc, I call it just game.

Can we back in topic please?

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To be successful in Second Life you need to also be ready to interact with the Community/Residents.

So iCade's reply was on topic actually.  Insulting us by telling us to get a 'real life' will not get you very far.

There is a lot of money to be made in SL but it is going to take time and effort.  You are not going to do it by slap and dash. 

 

[FezVrasta]

I've not insulted no one, I used a similar game for years and I've taken my real life back just few months ago.

She's talked about the fact that "if I don't understand that SF is not a game I can't do anything", and this is not exactly an useful comment.

 

Your instead is useful, because explain, without the assumption of "game or not game" that a developer for make money here must be active in the community.

 

[Paul Hexem]

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FezVrasta wrote:

I've not insulted no one, I used a similar game for years and I've taken my real life back just few months ago.

She's talked about the fact that "if I don't understand that SF is not a game I can't do anything", and this is not exactly an useful comment.

 

Your instead is useful, because explain, without the assumption of "game or not game" that a developer for make money here must be active in the community.

 

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Ignore the game thing. That argument comes up a lot. Many people in SL tend to get all defensive when someone says "game" and think that if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it must be a goose.

The rest of the thread is spot on, though.

[FezVrasta]

Tank you @Gadget Portal, as you can see I'm not here for discuss about the gam.. virtual life realistic simulato.. not simulator.. emm... virtual life realistic world not so virtual... oh my god..

By the way I hope someone can help me find a developer who needs textures

[Perrie Juran]

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FezVrasta wrote:

I've not insulted no one, I used a similar game for years and I've taken my real life back just few months ago.

She's talked about the fact that "if I don't understand that SF is not a game I can't do anything", and this is not exactly an useful comment.

 

Your instead is useful, because explain, without the assumption of "game or not game" that a developer for make money here must be active in the community.

 

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I worked as a Sales Rep for many years and was required by my employer to wear a coat and tie which I complied with.  I was assigned to a town that had always been a trouble spot for us and had turned it around.  My boss got quite a shock one day when he showed up and found me in jeans there.  He was going to write me up for violating dress code.  I pointed to the sales figures and said, "In this town they don't trust anyone in a suit." 

"You, who maybe live in it and forget to have a real life out there," was an insult.

[Rolig Loon]

Taking the brusque overtones out of it, iCade's comment is quite relevant, and it's at the root of what many other people have been saying in this thread.  It's just good business to know your market, and that includes knowing the culture and interests of the people you hope to sell to and the other creators you will be competing against. 

You wouldn't dream of opening a business in RL without knowing the landscape.  The same applies here.  You are asking some very good questions about the financial side of it.  To understand why most of us are saying not to get your expectations too high, though, you have to appreciate where we're coming from.  This is a very mixed community.  The last time I looked, the average age here was somewhere in the mid- to upper-30s. A lot of us are professionals in RL, or have retired from that life. There are certainly many gamers among us, and role play is a vibrant part of SL (not "SF", BTW.  That's San Francisco.).Still, that's not what most of us are here for. 

More of us are here to relax and get away from chasing after goals, earning badges, and getting more status.  With the exception of a few Type-A friends, most creators I know are happy if they earn enough to pay rent in SL and have a little pocket money left over.  If I earn the equivalent of $100 a month, I'm smiling.  I give away a lot of what I create, or offer it at a price that doesn't begin to compensate for my time. As I suggested in my earlier post, that's what my customers in SL generally expect too. I've been here long enough -- 6+ years -- to know that it's hard to get a high price for things when the world is flooded with inexpensive and free products.  The SL culture works against it.

As Gadget says, people argue all the time about whether SL is a "game". It gets a little old.  There's no good answer .... at least no single answer.  When you hear people like iCade and me react to the word "game", though, what you're hearing is a reflection of that culture I'm trying to describe. Mechanics aside, a "game" has winners and losers, points to earn, levels to achieve, dragons to slay, and maidens to rescue.  That's not what a huge number of us are here for, and it's not what drives our creative work and our markets. 

I love it when a new talented artist comes into SL.  I'd be pleased to see you set up shop and share your imagination.  I'm sure that you'll be able to find people to collaborate with too.  Talented people find each other.  Just take time to know who we are.