Recent TOS changes cripples not just 3rd party L$ exchange, but creators business.

[Sassy Romano]

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Mileva Milev wrote:

Age verification was just an example for things SL wants but people can not do due to some SL reasons.

 

 

 

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Except for those in the US, there really never was any problem completing age verification, none.  It was trivial to circumvent.  Anyway that's not the topic so moving on...

[Arcy Halfpint]

Are you Serioussssssssss, i had to   scan my passport and stuff to get verified as an adult,was an hassle

[Nalates Urriah]

Your right the ToS doesn't say they a NOT ALLOWED. The blog post pretty much says that. The emails sent to those running exchanges and building viewers tell them to cease and desist operations.

So, regardless of what the ToS says, or we think it says, the Lindens are closing the exchanges.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve.

 

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Jeez, that entire thing gave me chills, but I was willing to brave the TOS except for the quoted bit. It had me clutching my flannel shirts tightly.

Mauve being only one shade worse than the SL teal. I actually had a reaction to teal ... someone I was visiting was showing me some designs for business cards and I shoved the teal one away saying "noooo ... Second Life".

Got a puzzled look for that one, but waved it away with a "don't ask".

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

The new TOS  will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will scramble any disks that are even close to your computer. It will recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream goes melty. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards, screw up the tracking on your television and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's you try to play.         

 

It will give your ex-girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix Kool-aid into your fishtank. It will drink all your beer and leave its socks out on the coffee table when there's company coming over. It will put a dead kitten in the back pocket of your good suit pants and hide your car keys when you are late for work.         

 

The new TOS  will make you fall in love with a penguin. It will give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will pour sugar in your gas tank and shave off both your eyebrows while dating your girlfriend behind your back and billing the dinner and hotel room to your Discover card.          It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such is the power of The new TOS , it reaches out beyond the grave to sully those things we hold most dear.         

 

It moves your car randomly around parking lots so you can't find it. It will kick your dog. It will leave libidinous messages on your boss's voice mail in your voice! It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve.         

 

The new TOS  will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat up. It will make a batch of Methanphetamine in your bathtub and then leave bacon cooking on the stove while it goes out to chase gradeschoolers with your new snowblower.         

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ROFL

Maybe we should call Chuck Norris then :smileyvery-happy:

caption says (The end of the world ? .... i canceled it)

[Magnet Homewood]

In the country I live in, Paypal has only been available for a few years, but all I had to do was connect my debit card to it for it to work.

As for the end of the world .. I Chuckled!

[Magnet Homewood]

Well ... when this change happened I was kind of thinking, hmm, surely it can't affect Sl that much? But only today I got a notice from one group that stated the owner's sim will be closing in a week because they simply do not have a way to pay LL now. Is the sky going to fall this time?

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Magnet Homewood wrote:

Well ... when this change happened I was kind of thinking, hmm, surely it can't affect Sl that much? But only today I got a notice from one group that stated the owner's sim will be closing in a week because they simply do not have a way to pay LL now. Is the sky going to fall this time?

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so ...

THIS :

"

Wire transfers

Anyone can put money on account by sending Linden Lab a bank wire. If you wish to set up a wire transfer, please read and follow the instructions below carefully.

If you are wiring money to pay for a Private Region (island), you should wire the money before ordering through the land store, or place a special order through our invoicing system. Delivery time for Private Regions ordered through our invoicing system is longer than through the land store. If you choose to use our invoicing system, you will need your invoice number in order to complete the wire transfer.

To wire funds into your Second Life account, you must transfer the funds to Linden Lab's bank. Once you submit a support case for a wire transfer (explained below), we provide you with the information necessary to complete the transfer. Initiate the transfer with your bank promptly to avoid delays in delivery of your funds and processing of any Private Region orders.

Note: Because of the high fees we incur for wiring funds, there is a US$25.00 transfer fee. There is also a minimum amount (US$100.00) required to credit your account. If, for example, you want to put US$100.00 on account with us, you'll need to wire us US$125.00.

Wires can take up to five business days to post to your account, possibly longer for international transfers. Funds transferred must be in US$ currency."

AND THIS : 

Note: Use a bank wire only under the following circumstances:

• PayPal will not permit payments to your country.
• You are expecting payment of $10,000 or more.

so if its pb bec paypal is not working in this simowner's country, he still have a way to fix.

 

ETA : ah and here the link for the original : http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Account-balance/ta-p/700015#Section_.4

[Lexbot Sinister]

Wiring money is a possibility, but all the fees stack up pretty quickly.

1. For a european resident, owning a sim also means you have to pay additional VAT on it. Differs depending on country.

2. Wiring LL money costs additional 25$ (imagine if you have to do it once a month)

3. The bank you are wiring money from, ALSO demands a fee. My banks wants 10 $ for wiring money to the US.

 

So if i owned a sim, being an european, i'd just say "Screw it. LL doesn't want my money"

[Trinity Yazimoto]

indeed, and i wasnt saying it was better way, or even same, or even worst. but just saying it was existing.. i bet for big estate managers, 25 $ wont make a big difference...

but for pp who run a modest business it will...

but i only wanted to say it is posible.. for the one who can afford it, its possible..

EDIT : typo

[Czari Zenovka]

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:.

But on the bright side, LL will now have some extra millions of money/L$ passing through their hands directly and can perhaps buy a new CEO that will bring us more than Linden Realms, pathfinding, disfunctional chat in a new wrapper, less data centers and new products such as childrens software masquerading as creativity tools.

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From your mouth to LL's ears. Well said!

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

just for the record, i am not defending LL's action.

just stating the facts as i see it.

the problem as i see it is government intrusion into our lives in the name of 'fraud, crime & terrorist control.'

their intrusion into our personal lives is a fraud all of its own.

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Agree; and, at least in the US, government intrusion into our lives is expanding at an increasing rate.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Lasher Oh wrote:

Hot of the press from the Vitwox home page......

 

2013-05-09: UPDATE on changes in Linden Lab's TOS

Linden Lab has recently changed their

Terms of Service

. Under the new rules, we will no longer be able to offer our service to Second Life residents. Linden Lab insists that our in-world terminals (ATMs) have to be removed.

This means that we can currently not accept Linden Dollars from Second Life or pay Linden Dollars to Second Life. Other virtual currencies are not affected.

------------------

 

So if you have a stash of  L$s  sitting in an exchange either waiting to be sold or just banked then I guess they are gone now for good. I wonder how many millions of Lindens will be written off because of this action and how many residents are going to find themselves out of pocket.

Not to mention a number of  folks who will be added to the dole que.

 

I don't understand why LL didn't give advance notice and a cut off date to the community - well actually I do but stating it here would require distinctly unparliamentary lanquage and get me banned.

 

^L^

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I have no idea if Virwox could be used within InWorldz (the only other virtual world with which I have any familiarity), but since the statement says that other virtual currencies are not affected, could people who have lindens in Virwox cash them out with an IW account?  The policy says it cannot accept or pay lindens to SL so was wondering about a workaround for anyone with money sitll in Virwox.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

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Lasher Oh wrote:

I don't understand why LL didn't give advance notice and a cut off date to the community - well actually I do but stating it here would require distinctly unparliamentary lanquage and get me banned.

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Which is why we needed a brand new word:

lindened

 

verb: Screwed up, botched, ruined. Something is said to be "lindened" when a situation is made worse by an action that was intended to make things better.

 

This word originated in the Second Life community in response to the chronic troubles following Second Life upgrades.

 

My brakes were squeaking a bit so I got them worked on - now they are completely lindened - it won't stop at all.

From:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=lindened

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Love it! 

On a tangent, but somewhat related, I've been following the Jodi Arias trial in the US for the past few months.  A new term has been coined from the trial - "going jodiarias."  I saw it used recently in a Twitter post: My husband was going to shut off the power for a minute when the verdict was due as a joke, but he was afraid I'd "go jodiarias" on him.

(For those unfamiliar with this trial - this woman butchered her ex-boyfriend: stabbed 29 times including one to the heart and several to the head; slit his throat ear to ear cutting entirely through his sternum, and shot him through the head.  She then drug his body to the shower where it was not discovered for five days.)

Prior to this trial, men were concerned a woman might do a "Lorena Bobbitt" on them.  I'll leave that one for you to look up.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

The new TOS  will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will scramble any disks that are even close to your computer. It will recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream goes melty. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards, screw up the tracking on your television and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's you try to play.         

 

It will give your ex-girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix Kool-aid into your fishtank. It will drink all your beer and leave its socks out on the coffee table when there's company coming over. It will put a dead kitten in the back pocket of your good suit pants and hide your car keys when you are late for work.         

 

The new TOS  will make you fall in love with a penguin. It will give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will pour sugar in your gas tank and shave off both your eyebrows while dating your girlfriend behind your back and billing the dinner and hotel room to your Discover card.          It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such is the power of The new TOS , it reaches out beyond the grave to sully those things we hold most dear.         

 

It moves your car randomly around parking lots so you can't find it. It will kick your dog. It will leave libidinous messages on your boss's voice mail in your voice! It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve.         

 

The new TOS  will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat up. It will make a batch of Methanphetamine in your bathtub and then leave bacon cooking on the stove while it goes out to chase gradeschoolers with your new snowblower.         

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*Wiping Coke off the monitor*

Priceless!!

[Pamela Galli]

That is a rewrite of something sent around when people were spreading ridiculous rumors about what the Goodtimes Virus would/could do. 

[Perrie Juran]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

That is a rewrite of something sent around when people were spreading ridiculous rumors about what the Goodtimes Virus would/could do. 

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Just don't forget to delete your 'system32' folder.  It's the only known cure.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:.

But on the bright side, LL will now have some extra millions of money/L$ passing through their hands directly and can perhaps buy a new CEO that will bring us more than Linden Realms, pathfinding, disfunctional chat in a new wrapper, less data centers and new products such as childrens software masquerading as creativity tools.

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From your mouth to LL's ears. Well said!

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Well, Phil Rosedale is no longer listed as being on the LL board of directors, this is a recent thing.

http://www.lindenlab.com/about

I would joke about a coup taking place because Rod brought too many Electronic Arts people here with him and they tarred and feathered poor Phil who then ran off to start High Fidelity in a huff ... but that would almost make a morbid kind of sense.

Seriously though, just one CEO with common sense bent on improving the existing product without bringing in projects that just increase SL's technical debt would do the trick.

[Lasher Oh]

Here's the latest Virwox status update (My Bold)....

 

2013-05-11: UPDATE regarding changes in Linden Lab's TOS

Linden Lab has recently changed their Terms of Service. As a result, we are currently not able to offer our service to Second Life residents. This means that our in-world terminal can currently not accept Linden Dollars from Second Life and there can be no payouts of Linden Dollars to Second Life.

Other currencies are not affected. If you have Linden Dollars on your VirWoX account, you may still exchange them to another currency and request a payout.

We are working towards a solution and will post updates here as the situation develops. Please refrain from sending us support messages about this issue, at the moment we will not be able to give you more information. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

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So they are cashing out as normal - (to be expected) and still accepting L$  conversions to other virtual world currencies. So anyone  who has their lindens parked in Virwox can still access them and realise their value - they just can't send them back for use in SL without cashing out first and buying again through Lindex.

I don't think Virwox have an an arrangement with Inworldz but they do deal with Avination C$  and Open Metaverse OMC

I find the 'We are working towards a solution' statement quite intriguing which indicates that there may be some compromise available and could explain why the powerful Anche organisation are keeping calm and carrying on as  normal http://www.anshex.com/second_life_linden

^L^

[Innula Zenovka]

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Patience Sands wrote:

According to the few people I've spoken to, its not lack of access to paypal that is the problem, its the fact that Paypal demands that your account is backed up with a CC. Not every country in the world embraces the credit card revolution, many Europeans just don't have a CC, and for 2 of my dearest SL friends it's unrealistically expensive to own one just to play a game with.

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It's not just credit cards.  My PayPal account is backed up not with a Credit Card (I've not used one for 20 years or more) but wtih my Visa Debit card, issued by my bank in England.  

I think the problem may be that not all debit cards are created equal; some guarantee payment to the merchant (at least up to a certain limit) and some have to check with your bank first to ensure that funds are available.    PayPal don't much like the second sort.

Certainly it's a huge issue for people in some European countries.   I know someone from one of the republics of the former Yugoslavia, for example, who is a noted 3-D designer who sells his meshes on Turbosquid and elsewhere but who has to confine himself to sculpties in SL because there's just no way he can get payment info on file so as to be able to upload mesh here.    Now it looks like he won't be able to get his money out of SL, either.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Lasher Oh wrote:

Here's the latest Virwox status update (My Bold)....

 

2013-05-11: UPDATE regarding changes in Linden Lab's TOS

 

Linden Lab has recently changed their Terms of Service. As a result, we are currently not able to offer our service to Second Life residents. This means that our in-world terminal can currently not accept Linden Dollars from Second Life and there can be no payouts of Linden Dollars to Second Life.

 

Other currencies are not affected. If you have Linden Dollars on your VirWoX account, you may still exchange them to another currency and request a payout.

 

We are working towards a solution and will post updates here as the situation develops. Please refrain from sending us support messages about this issue, at the moment we will not be able to give you more information. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

------------

So they are cashing out as normal - (to be expected) and still accepting L$  conversions to other virtual world currencies. So anyone  who has their lindens parked in Virwox can still access them and realise their value - they just can't send them back for use in SL without cashing out first and buying again through Lindex.

I don't think Virwox have an an arrangement with Inworldz but they do deal with Avination C$  and Open Metaverse OMC

I find the 'We are working towards a solution' statement quite intriguing which indicates that there may be some compromise available and could explain why the powerful Anche organisation are keeping calm and carrying on as  normal

http://www.anshex.com/second_life_linden

^L^

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Ah ok...thank you for the info and update.  And you're right...haven't heard a peep from Anshe.

--||-

[Czari Zenovka]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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Patience Sands wrote:

According to the few people I've spoken to, its not lack of access to paypal that is the problem, its the fact that Paypal demands that your account is backed up with a CC. Not every country in the world embraces the credit card revolution, many Europeans just don't have a CC, and for 2 of my dearest SL friends it's unrealistically expensive to own one just to play a game with.

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It's not just credit cards.  My PayPal account is backed up not with a Credit Card (I've not used one for 20 years or more) but wtih my Visa Debit card, issued by my bank in England.  

I think the problem may be that not all debit cards are created equal; some guarantee payment to the merchant (at least up to a certain limit) and some have to check with your bank first to ensure that funds are available.    PayPal don't much like the second sort.

Certainly it's a huge issue for people in some European countries.   I know someone from one of the republics of the former Yugoslavia, for example, who is a noted 3-D designer who sells his meshes on Turbosquid and elsewhere but who has to confine himself to sculpties in SL because there's just no way he can get payment info on file so as to be able to upload mesh here.    Now it looks like he won't be able to get his money out of SL, either.

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I spoke with a friend in Romania and, except having to wait a few more days, he's able to use the Lindex so it must be very country-specific.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

 

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I spoke with a friend in Romania and, except having to wait a few more days, he's able to use the Lindex so it must be very country-specific.

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It is (though the fact the Romania, unlike most -- all? -- of the former Yugoslavia, is in the EU may have something to do with it).

There's a full list of countries PayPal supports at https://www.paypal.com/worldwide/

 

[Mina Firefly]

It has crippled business because potential costumers can no longer buy their L$.

At least potential buyers from outside the US.

 

We only get two options to buy L$ :

-Paypal

-Credit card

 

LindenX does not accept outside US paypal payments...even if your paypal is verified...

So that leaves us only with the credit card option.

In my country not many people have credit cards...only self-employed people.

Banks don't just hand out credit cards here...

 

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I've not bought L$ for ages, but certainly I operate my PayPal account by connecting it to my UK bank debit card, not a credit card, and back when I did buy L$, I didn't have any difficulty using PayPal to do it.  So I don't think the statement LindenX does not accept outside US paypal payments...even if your paypal is verified  is correct.   I asked about this over at SLU recently, with particular reference to Germany, and several people there say they can buy and sell L$ on Lindex via PayPal despite -- like me -- not using credit cards.