Time LL up'ed the stakes for Griefers

[161488303349]

i agree

he is on the slippery slope now

if people do start fighting their own battles then need chill their emotions. if not then they in for heaps of hurting

it never ends well for anyone who got a fast temper and a fast trigger finger in any shared space. is a lonely life that

[Heart Brimmer]

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16 wrote:

i agree

he is on the slippery slope now

if people do start fighting their own battles then need chill their emotions. if not then they in for heaps of hurting

it never ends well for anyone who got a fast temper and a fast trigger finger in any shared space. is a lonely life that

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Yes he is, 16. I hope for his own sake, he cools down and realizes that the only thing that can come of acting on his own, is more trouble for him. Some people just don't seem to listen though, especially if ones opinion doesn't agree with theirs. 

[Ansariel Hiller]

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Heart Brimmer wrote:

Yes he is, 16. I hope for his own sake, he cools down and realizes that the only thing that can come of acting on his own, is more trouble for him. Some people just don't seem to listen though, especially if ones opinion doesn't agree with theirs. 

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Darn! I just read that guy is 16 years old... Anyway: He already got a special shower to cool down!

[Heart Brimmer]

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Ansariel Hiller wrote:

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Heart Brimmer wrote:

Yes he is, 16. I hope for his own sake, he cools down and realizes that the only thing that can come of acting on his own, is more trouble for him. Some people just don't seem to listen though, especially if ones opinion doesn't agree with theirs. 

---

Darn! I just read that guy is 16 years old... Anyway: He already got a special shower to cool down!

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LOL. I was answering 16's post not that he was 16. *giggles* but yeah he did get a special shower to cool down. :-)

[greek Wingtips]

First of all I not griefed anyone and anything I did do or say is within all the rules of SL, lets get that out of the way,  2nd as your question "nothing is real" would care for me to abuse you in chat at a club and also whiles am there let me pee on you as you said it not Real so it will not affect you in the least, you seem to  think just because its a in world game, feelings and emotions that relate being in this game are not real,there are more emotions and feeling prob running around in this game that you care to think.

I not speaking for myself but for the others that cannot, 

 

 

[greek Wingtips]

you actually are def the person I hate to have in a team, why because you are what we call a S*** Stirrer were the hell you got 16 from I dont know, maybe its you thats 16 years masqring as an adult,.

[greek Wingtips]

apologies I never saw this post until I wrote my reply to you

 

am now ending anymore on this BTW as to me dealing with this griefer nothing untowards to him was done other than some stern words in a private conversation so let it rest at that

 

[Heart Brimmer]

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greek Wingtips wrote:

First of all I not griefed anyone and anything I did do or say is within all the rules of SL, lets get that out of the way,  2nd as your question "nothing is real"

would care for me to abuse you in chat at a club

and also whiles am there let me pee on you as you said it not Real so it will not affect you in the least, you seem to  think just because its a in world game, feelings and emotions that relate being in this game are not real,there are more emotions and feeling prob running around in this game that you care to think.

I not speaking for myself but for the others that cannot, 

 

 

---

That is what the mute button is for. YOU decide to abuse me in chat and I decide to MUTE you, end of discussion. And NO, peeing on my avie would not affect me in the least. I'm not saying that emotions and feelings are NOT real, they are very real, I'm saying that NO ONE is REALLY peeing on YOU. It's an action by an avatar made of particles. In RL, IF someone peed on me, they would be on the floor, picking up their teeth, but since this IS NOT RL, it doesn't bother me one way or the other. DERENDER them, mute them and move one. Geeze! how old DID you say you were??? END OF DISCUSSION. bye! have a wonderful SL.

[Heart Brimmer]

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greek Wingtips wrote:

you actually are def the person I hate to have in a team, why because you are what we call a S*** Stirrer were the hell you got 16 from I dont know, maybe its you thats 16 years masqring as an adult,.

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Why don't you go back up and LOOK at who I was referring to?? Good lord. I was answering 16's response. Get over yourself. 

[Ansariel Hiller]

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greek Wingtips wrote:

 

am now ending anymore on this BTW as to me dealing with this griefer nothing untowards to him was done other than some stern words in a private conversation so let it rest at that

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/me starts the timer and expects the next thread about the same topic in - what day is today? Monday? - okay, 5 days...

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

There is no hard and fast definition for griefing, it is a very subjective thing.

By the definition you gave, deliberately annoys and harasses other players in the game and deriving pleasure primarily or exclusively from the act of annoying other users ...  the example you gave of some jerk going around virtually peeing on people is not griefing until the first person complains and tells him he is being annoying and he refuses to stop. Up until that moment, he is not a griefer, he is just someone with a childish sense of humor.

The resident who inadvertantly "ruins" another resident's nice view by rezzing some hideously ugly structure because he genuinely likes it (tastes differ and his idea of beautiful is his neighbor's idea of ugliness) is not a griefer unless the the neighbor complains and the one with the "awful" taste does not remove a building he likes? Or is the complaining neighbor a griefer for insulting the one with "no taste?" 

I have never had any issue with child avatars. People who play child avatars who insist on "cute baby talk" with lisping and mispronounced consonants well past the age when that is an issue for most RL young children annoy the Hell out of me. I avoid them when possible. Now, most of those child avatars with speech and spelling issues, so to speak, know darned well it irritates a good many other people. Are they griefers because they don't stop doing it?

So if everyone who rezzes something ugly and refuses to take it down because it annoys a neighbor is a griefer, what do you call someone who goes around crashing sims or ruining them? A Super Griefer?

If you toss a word around indiscriminately like that, it loses impact. Oh, he's a griefer ... what did he do? He had this annoying gesture he wouldn't stop playing. Oh,  that one there, he's a griefer too. What did that one do? He crashed an entire estate of over 30 sims and cost the sim owner a fortune when tenants left, and the tenants had to find new homes because the incessant attacks wouldn't stop.

Rather than rethinking MY definition of griefing, I'd suggest you rethink yours and perhaps consider lightening up a bit. Is SL fun for you? If things like that bother you so badly, it doesn't seem like it would be all that much fun.

 

[Tari Landar]

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greek Wingtips wrote:

you cannot mute someone peeing on others, 

 

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Just addressing this. Muting, mutes the person to you and for you, not for everyone else. You most certainly can mute anyone you like, for any reason you like. I, personally, have never used the feature, but I know many have. That's why it exists. If everyone mutes, or at least anyone being annoyed by such person mutes, the problem would likely go away. Then you can allow the land owner to deal with that person in whatever way they deem fit. Most likely a banning is what he'd receive. This is why people who respond stress this part. They tell you(general you) to mute and report because it IS your first defense against the stuff that you don't like. They don't say this just to annoy you. They don't respond back with the same comments when others have issues similar, just because they like frustrating people. They say it, because it works. It helps. Sometimes it actually solves the problem entirely. Sometimes not. But at least it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

My take still is from what I have read and heard over the years that people apply the term Griefing too liberally.  In SL it has a specific defined meaning.  Being annoying, rude, crude or even under some circumstances obscene is not in and of it self "Griefing."  I may not agree with the behaviour but that does not make it griefing.

<snip>

 

I have mixed feelings about the urinating incident.  Crude and rude, absolutely.  At its very best poor judgement in humour.  Whether or not it can be defined as Griefing, I really don't know.

 

 

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A quote from LL re: a recent incident that resulted in a 7-day suspension:

Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. The use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other scripted objects that intentionally slow server performance or inhibit other Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life are examples of Disturbing the Peace.

(Bolding mine)

The final arbiter for what constitutes "inhibiting" another "Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life" will be LL, but that is a broad statement.  Each person has varying degrees of personal interpretation of what they think is inhibiting their enjoyment of SL to the other extreme of thinking a particular incident is funny.  I don't dwell on griefing incidents the few times I've encountered them, but I do immediately AR, report to sim owner, and move on.

[Melita Magic]

How do you "know for a fact" that "LL will do nothing?"

In my experience they have been prompt and helpful in dealing with abuse reports.

They can't always be there instantly, but they do help.

__

 

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greek Wingtips wrote:

Then the subject goes of its tracks then it then becomes stupid

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First day on the internet?

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

 

My take still is from what I have read and heard over the years that people apply the term Griefing too liberally.  In SL it has a specific defined meaning.  Being annoying, rude, crude or even under some circumstances obscene is not in and of it self "Griefing."  I may not agree with the behaviour but that does not make it griefing.

<snip>

 

I have mixed feelings about the urinating incident.  Crude and rude, absolutely.  At its very best poor judgement in humour.  Whether or not it can be defined as Griefing, I really don't know.

 

 

---

A quote from LL re: a recent incident that resulted in a 7-day suspension:

Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. The use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other scripted objects that intentionally slow server performance

or inhibit other Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life

are examples of Disturbing the Peace.

(Bolding mine)

The final arbiter for what constitutes "inhibiting" another "Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life" will be LL, but that is a broad statement.  Each person has varying degrees of personal interpretation of what they think is inhibiting their enjoyment of SL to the other extreme of thinking a particular incident is funny.  I don't dwell on griefing incidents the few times I've encountered them, but I do immediately AR, report to sim owner, and move on.

---

I'm not sure that  you can take that phrase, "inhibit other Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life," out of context / separate it from the rest of the sentence.

While Linden Lab is both Judge and Jury as to when a violation has occured, I don't believe that Moderation is as arbitrary or capricious as some people think. 

I'm really becoming more and more of the opinion that some things we have thought Linden Lab was vague about, that actually they were specific and to the point.  But that's just my two cents worth.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

 

My take still is from what I have read and heard over the years that people apply the term Griefing too liberally.  In SL it has a specific defined meaning.  Being annoying, rude, crude or even under some circumstances obscene is not in and of it self "Griefing."  I may not agree with the behaviour but that does not make it griefing.

<snip>

 

I have mixed feelings about the urinating incident.  Crude and rude, absolutely.  At its very best poor judgement in humour.  Whether or not it can be defined as Griefing, I really don't know.

 

 

---

A quote from LL re: a recent incident that resulted in a 7-day suspension:

Every Resident has a right to live their Second Life. The use of repetitive sounds, following or self-spawning items, or other scripted objects that intentionally slow server performance

or inhibit other Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life

are examples of Disturbing the Peace.

(Bolding mine)

The final arbiter for what constitutes "inhibiting" another "Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life" will be LL, but that is a broad statement.  Each person has varying degrees of personal interpretation of what they think is inhibiting their enjoyment of SL to the other extreme of thinking a particular incident is funny.  I don't dwell on griefing incidents the few times I've encountered them, but I do immediately AR, report to sim owner, and move on.

---

I'm not sure that  you can take that phrase, "

inhibit other Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life

," out of context / separate it from the rest of the sentence.

While Linden Lab is both Judge and Jury as to when a violation has occured, I don't believe that Moderation is as arbitrary or capricious as some people think. 

I'm really becoming more and more of the opinion that some things we have thought Linden Lab was vague about, that actually they were specific and to the point.  But that's just my two cents worth.

---

What I bolded was in response to varying views within this thread re: if, in this case, urinating on someone constitutes griefing.  If something or someone, according to LL's statement, inhibits a resident's ability to enjoy SL, then this action *could* be considered griefing and/or abuse; however, as I stated, the final arbitrator will be LL, not the person who thinks this act is major griefing nor the person who thinks it's humorous.

Only point I was trying to make.

[GothGirl Demonia]

The problem is Linden Lab isn't doing their job for the most part.

Allow me to explain myself my opinion on Linden Lab & Griefers.

My opinion is that Linden Lab isn't doing its job I have seen many griefers in SL walk free I have seen entire sims and RolePlayers who have support the stupid CopyBot since 09 still not banned by Linden Lab because they use alternate accounts spoof IP and MAC address because SL is open source, but their main accounts are part of the same groups.

LL needs to increase the security on players accounts I mean Between 2009, and 2012 I had a very bad experience with Griefing botters constantly seeing them in our sandbox, welcome areas, RP sims, admins who don't care heck I say ban them all please even the people who support it, Personally I say the bot is fine when used legally and not abused, but giving out the code to everyone people are going to abuse it, and it needs to be stopped all together at least the abusers of it which likely wont happen.

My account finally compromised by a griefer in december of 2012 the same griefer who got perma banned from SL for botting they were related to eachother I can tell because of what they wrote in my profile before I removed it all. Linden Lab claimed they couldn't restore my inventory which I know better I have done manual data restores and many recoverys on pc's never failed yet. Problem is LL can't protect players accounts either.

Sim Griefers, yes I understand that some griefers do things just for the laughs, however it depends on how serious the matter effected another person for example a resident is going to always have a dispute in their SL time where it be their own fault, rumors, or a misunderstanding it happens so abuse reporting such is stupid unless they keep coming back with alts there is a mute button for a reason it often works.

Now Griefers who keep coming back are the problem people who crash sims crash other players, I can say that I have been involved in such before years ago I wont say which sims or anyone, but I will say that the people which I know who were griefed until they pretty much quit SL deserved it they were all no good for nothing Botters, and griefers themselves where people agree with it or not LL wouldn't do anything so I personally talked ot people I knew outside SL and they got griefed hardcore for what they were doing to people I know who spend hours creating content everyday. Does two wrongs make a right obviously not, but at the same time it feels good to have two less griefers around ruining people, and this was years ago but still. ( I tried abuse reports first, it didn't work.)

But agian why resident feel the need to take things into their own hands is because LL has no control over griefers so some residents do things like start assistance groups for abuse reporting as a group grid patrol which is totally fine and within the TOS, although others like me sometiems seek out revenge isn't always good and I hate doing it but when I see that my fellow friend is constantly being attacked by griefers, heck I will bring out some toys and have some kicking them off the sim repeaditly and such, there are actually quite a few people like me who I know who have been here longer than I have.

I would rather LL deal with disputes help save this game from griefers, heck if I had Admin rights over sandbox sims my deleted accounts bag would be full by the end of the day kicking off no good for nothing copy bots and trolls constantly. I think its pathetic how the whole system works of merchants constnatly having to file DMCA's when a Linden Employee can inspect assets and if they have a notice that no one else was authroized to use them Black List the content and such but they don't.

Hell I would like to have a job taking out the trash on this game it would also be fun.

Oh and I would really like to see Linden Lab have less mainland which is totally useless, and go back to old tier price on private sims, honestly I think Linden Homes were a mistake and if they made SL more stand-a-lone it would be better save LL more money and they could improve customer service and support from there a lot better than dealing with all these mai-land issues.

[greek Wingtips]

I read your artical and feel you hit the nail on the head and answered everything that should be, totally agree with all you said,  well put. 100% so true

[Damienn Kiranov]

Fortunately, due to a combination of LL incompetence, griefer cleverness, and average player whininess, griefers are here to stay. What makes any of you think that you can be rid of such in important part of an online experience? It is good that you all are griefed and trolled, it serves the greater cause of internet eugenics. Maybe, some hopeful day, all you whiners will kill yourselves, and the world can be a bit nicer of a place.

Keep in mind, the more you try to go after griefers, the more beligerant they become, as your raw butthurt is music to them. On top of that, rolling alts in SL is of very little effort, so for every griefer you ban, you'll just have 15 sock puppets ready to continue the griefing and trolling. The only way to stop it all, is for them to simply get bored and move on.

 

[Paul Hexem]