Shab Aelberts Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Good eveningThis is not a first time we get a complain from one of best creators on SL about not get selling of items on SL in world in some regions, because of lot of newbie's/ new avatars come and join in SL, and then they use marketplace as there stores even there membership are basic. And we lost lot of good tenants in our regions/ homesteads, because of there are no one visit shops in world like before, and they prefer always to buy items from marketplace for very cheap prices. And the reason is: Excessive use on marketplace and no more cost than a store in world. And therefore we see lot of tenants left there other shops in many regions on SL in world. We pay always for rental regions and homesteads, but we don't get any profits or returns of money back.Now I will take more serious for this situation we have at the moment. If it will still be continue with problem so we will lose our business and projects on SL in world, and therefore we want Linden Lab Support to find a solution for this issue. I hope also all people will join the discussion.Regards:Shab AelbertsBusiness man and founder of Future City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The shopping experience is changing and yes the rise of the marketplace does unfortunately hit inworld ventures due to the lack of store rentals and such like. Unfortunately, this isn't going to change anytime soon and sims will have to shut down because of the change in cash flow if they can't find alternative means of offsetting tier costs. The only thing you can really do is to think about ways of raising revenue in other areas as the marketplace is here to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crim Mip Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Let's face it, the marketplace is a lot more convenient for finding items and comparing similar items on price and user feedback. In some instances, I'll actually go to the inworld store to see something, often I'd much rather just buy it from the marketplace and avoid the search for the vendor after a teleport and lag if it's a busy sim. The days of the in world megamalls comprised of many different sellers are pretty much over. Unless it's something one needs to see a demo of, why bother going to an inworld store? With the marketplace, wherever I am is a store that comes to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Gee, Mr. Aelberts, looks like you have plenty of customers at your sim though. Of course they're all hovering around 1000 meters and I can't seem to see them but my mini-map says they're there. Wow, a good 11 or so up there. Maybe they'll come down and buy some things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shab Aelberts Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Actually we have paid more than 1000000 L$ until now and most we paid for events, rental regions and advertisements, but we get no profits and returns of money back, and we make always troubles and differences with business partners, and all things we have because negligence of Linden Lab Support, and they don't care about this our situation and we try always to be patient until they can replay. And I think the best solution for us and other of business people: Linden Lab Support should to change the rule for using of marketplace. And as I wrote the first beginning it was about Excessive use of marketplace, and we see always a new creators don't change there memberships to premium for they can have allowed to use marketplace, because it's a very easy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephina Frostbite Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I tend to agree about the convience. I love laying in bed and just scrolling the MP on my phone. Something that cant be done inworld. It would me nice if all inworld stores set up a website saying which products were available where. That why if I want an inworld product it would be easy to know where to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Shab Aelberts wrote: Actually we have paid more than 1000000 L$ until now and most we paid for events, rental regions and advertisements, but we get no profits and returns of money back, and we make always troubles and differences with business partners, and all things we have because negligence of Linden Lab Support, and they don't care about this our situation and we try always to be patient until they can replay. And I think the best solution for us and other of business people: Linden Lab Support should to change the rule for using of marketplace. And as I wrote the first beginning it was about Excessive use of marketplace, and we see always a new creators don't change there memberships to premium for they can have allowed to use marketplace, because it's a very easy for them. Sorry couldn't disagree more. Your solution may be the best for you, but it is NOT the best for me and my business or many other businesses. Why should merchants be restricted in using the marketplace or be required to be a premium member just so you can make a profit? LL is not in the business of making sure you make a profit either. They are a business that is concerned with their own bottom line. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't making more money off MP commissions than they would from tiers from in world stores. So I wouldn't look for them to make any changes in the future. There is no excessive use of the MP. The fact is that the MP is much more convenient for most people than in world shopping. Even in RL people are turning to online shopping vs. going to stores more and more. Its just the way things are now. Consumers are free to shop where they wish and that is a good thing. You need to adapt and find a different business model for your sims if you are no longer able to rent out shops and not impose restrictions on other businesses because you want to adhere to a business model that is no longer profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't making more money off MP commissions than they would from tiers from in world stores. So I wouldn't look for them to make any changes in the future. I'd be absolutely gobsmacked if that were the case, it would also mean LL could lower tier for everyone. Marketplace commission is not direct income for LL, tier on the other hand, is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuhai Ling Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 It is no secret that the Marketplace has effectively moved shopping out of Second Life for at least the last two years and will continue to do so. It is only one move Linden Lab has made over the last few years which has hobbled the in-world economy and caused a steady closure of private regions and abandonment of mainland. Last year the total number of private sims declined by 12% with no indications of slowing down. Sadly, the situation will remain the same unless there is a fundamental change at Linden Lab and how they operate Second Life's economy. Here is my 2013 advice to anyone thinking about Second Life as a business venture: don't do it! Anyone can make a ton more working the same hours at minimum wage than could be made virtually. If you are dead-set on a venture though, make products and sell them on the Marketplace. Pay for as little land as possible, find a popular theme spot to tag as "Home," and choose a good public sandbox for building things. If you need a place for some "private time" there is a good selection of hotels with security that rent by the hour. Second Life is still a fun place to be but it has changed from an economic powerhouse to a social "game" of sorts. Save money-making for real life and have fun in-world; your life will be all the more enriched for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Shab Aelberts wrote: Actually we have paid more than 1000000 L$ until now and most we paid for events, rental regions and advertisements, but we get no profits and returns of money back, and we make always troubles and differences with business partners, and all things we have because negligence of Linden Lab Support, and they don't care about this our situation and we try always to be patient until they can replay. And I think the best solution for us and other of business people: Linden Lab Support should to change the rule for using of marketplace. And as I wrote the first beginning it was about Excessive use of marketplace, and we see always a new creators don't change there memberships to premium for they can have allowed to use marketplace, because it's a very easy for them. Dear Shab, I am a resident of Second Life for nearly two and a half year and I never was premium. When I joined, I had no money and no clue about the marketplace. I wandered trough the endless malls and shops, getting tired of waiting for everything to rezz in the many customer-unfriendly shops....just to finally see that one boring outift was sold for 200L and more. And I could speak of luck if the search leads me to the right store! Typing in keywords is most of the time useless, because the shopowners put all kind of keywords into their searchlisting just in hope someone will visit them. I don't have the time for such games. Then I discovered the marketplace. Everything was easy now. I could wander a tidy, virtual store full with everything I need. Beautifully sorted by type and price. When I type in "black" I get all kind of black stuff. When go to the hair category I just get that....hair...tons of hair! I don't have to care about laggy, slow rezzing shops, I don't have to do an endless search and I don't have to get teased by keywords anymore. I can read other customers reviews and get a description of the item and the shopowners name right away....besides the tiny delivery fails every once in a while I'm happy having the marketplace. I haven't totally stopped going to inworld shops. Sometimes I visit them because I have to test out an object before I buy it or some items are just available inworld. Or its something else I only get inworld. Shops where never places I went to to spend much time there. I think your idea of making the marketplace a premium only feature would ruin both, SL and the marketplace. The marketplace is full of people starting to "try" something. Trying to see if someone would buy their stuff. And its far more inviting to browse the marketplace than to visit 10 shops in a row without finding what you want. I assume you are a premium user, do you think your customers would pay 10$ a month to be allowed to enjoy the marketplace? I don't think so. It will stop both, new creators and customers from using it if it gets a premiumfeature. SL was always advertised as a free world. Premium was always a special candy to get, but nothing that could get you things a basic account couldn't get somehow too (expect the live chat). Making the marketplace a premium feature is a bad force to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shab Aelberts Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Communities, organizations, and business must to have balances, for we can give more chances for business partners to stay on SL, or Linden Lab will always lose there customers if they give chances to newbie's and avatars within a basic membership to use marketplaces as there stores or they will sabotage more and more if they make lot of stuff for free or very cheap prices, and the reason is: Create a new marketplace is almost for free but it will be paid 1 - 2 % commission to Linden Lab. And therefore we see lot of tenants on SL in world close there shops in any sim, because of no selling. So if it will still be continue to get complains from creators about same problem, it will actually to be shut down if there is no solution. So business partners will never to continue with working on SL anymore. My opinion the best solution will be change one of rules on Linden Lab agreement. To using marketplace should to change there memberships to premium, and they need also to have least one main store on SL in world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 if your estate/region is reliant on shop rentals that sell experiences/stuff made by others to pay your tiers then is doomed have to change to selling experiences to your renters/visitors/patrons that you make/made/commission yourself now predictable covenanted themed home rentals the main one. homesteads if you can afford the risks. is quite a lot of people will rent them + the secret i think to rental homes on full sims that parcelled up is the concept that Home is a safe haven safe meaning that i can go Home and have respectful neighbours who mind their own business and let me mind mine the landlord total enforces the covenant and the code of conduct. no exceptions. like cam anyone not on your own parcel and you gone. stuff like that on sims where you get landlords like this then they gold to renters who want safe haven Homes. once in they always stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Marketplace is not the first of it's kind. It was SLex long before it was Xstreet. It was Xstreet long before it was Marketplace. Neither of those previous two killed off inworld shopping the way people are claiming Marketplace is. I think you should be looking at what has been done inworld to kill off inworld shopping. It's not Marketplace that's magically changed the way people shop. Though Marketplace is convenient and there are more people that use it now than ever used SLex or Xstreet. There has got to be a reason other than the fact that Marketplace exists, at the root base. There are, in fact, multiple reasons. My guess is it has more to do with inworld issues than anything else. In fact, for me it IS because of inworld issues. Just reading these forums will tell you, the same applies to many other residents. Between merchants not making user friendly locations and linden labs messing up inworld search, it's enough to make me not want to shop at most places. Especially malls or locations with multiple stores. I do shop inworld, but primarily at places I already know how to navigate, or take me directly to the product from their Marketplace listing. I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with merchants who don't know how, or don't care to, maximize their own potential. I have even less time for people who own malls/shopping centers that know even less about optimizing. Even if I am on a system that generally rezzes quickly. It's annoying as all get out to land somewhere and have no clue where to go, even worse to be nowhere near the actual store because of forced landing point. Or to land somewhere and be script lagged to death. Or to land somewhere and be bombarded with lms, blue menus, greetings and all kinds of other mumbo jumbo when my first goal is to get off the landing point so I don't disturb others' shopping experience. Quickest way to get rid of me is to annoy me at landing. I'm generally pretty patient, but if you make no effort, don't blame me when I walk away, lol. So, if you're really worried about the inworld shopping experience being killed off, stop focusing on the out of world shopping experience. It won't help you whatsoever. Marketplace is not going anywhere. It's been around for years and years, in some form or another. It's not a new concept by any definition when it comes to Sl. The reason it's being more widely used has little to do with the fact that it's there, and a lot to do with the fact that it's a better overall experience for the people utilizing it.(most of them). Figure out WHY it's a better experience, fix the inworld experience, and you'll not see such an issue anymore. Don't look to the lab to fix the issues, because it's not likely they will. Though we all wish they'd fix what they've flubbed, it's apparent they rarely listen. It's up to the merchants to do the best they can to make inworld shopping a better experience. It's not always going to be easy. But I can tell you some merchants are grabbing that proverbial bull by the horns. I've been to some in the last year I would have never shopped at before because of how crappy the experience was when I initially tried. They've chosen to make their inworld experience better than the Marketplace counterpart for their stores. They're not lacking inworld sales anymore. Why not learn from them? The Marketplace has it's issues too. It's far from perfect. It definitely needs a lot of work too. But it is NOT the reason inworld shopping has gone to crap. For many merchants, they've done that to themselves, along with linden labs and their inability, or rather unwillingness to not only understand both their product and customer, but move forward in the right directions. Some merchants have that same inability and unwillingness to learn...and they pass it on to their customers. Which is why they lack them these days. *Note that some, actually means some, many, actually means many, and nothing will always apply to all. There are always exceptions.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenie Lane Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I no im always nervous to post anything here , sometimes sl is even worsted as RL politic, 1 want this someone else want that, i have my own ideas about it all and i know none will listen to them , times chancing always and we must go with the flow but in this situation im a bit worry to , people that want try to get a store running go for the easy way now, open a store on marketplace, its for free , where we started with rent a small cart and if we sold we could rent a store in a mall till we could get are own imperium, agree, inworld is laggy and a lot people always blame scripts and or sculpts but no matter what they try, the place stays laggy, like we hsare more Sims on a server as before to, but the next issue is that people not see how much good place get lost because the can't rent out stores anymore , they must pay the Sims from the rents or split profits , see all famous clubs , boogart, frank, Phats, tropicana , busy places where we sold clothes while people was dancing or walked around the stores , now the most stores only stay for advertising the most not even sell them rents anymore, they are famous places people love to be, but where they go if those Sims are forced to close down ? If there are no places anymore to dance and chat, they don't need dances any more or nice hair or shoes, they will stay in the PJs with curls in the hair hanging in a rent box to browse on the marketplace. I don't want tell what's good or bad or what any of you must do or can do, but because i try to support in world as much as possible i will not buy from a store on marketplace if they not have a store in world, because yes, all must be able to try to do things , but i have a feeling , just a feeling that marketplace will be change soon to again, if not to buy there a store space to add 10 or 100 or 1000 items, like LL had idea to let people pay to add free gifts, boy how mad all be because how did they dare to touch them money or ask money, im only always wondering, people always want try to make money b ut none want pay for anything, it looks like SL is as bad as tax , Anyone is free to buy where he or she want in world or market place, but im only worryd we wil loose some good places for that reason, even than , even if that happens i might have few ideas to get those places be safet but thats for later . but yes i went back from 50 satelite stores to 25 , 1 advice for sims that run good, do not rebuild, i noticed to often if sims go rebuild they loose, because they change the concept and stores be forgatten that way . But i get mad on marketplace to with slow browsing and get that messege , sorry........try later again, and browse trough 20 pages with same shirt and tops only diffrent colors, but i know LL not sit stil neither but i hope for Shab it wil not be to late for to much good places. I love marketplace to for my store but i love nice places in world to places we must cherish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Tari Landar wrote: Marketplace is not the first of it's kind. It was SLex long before it was Xstreet. It was Xstreet long before it was Marketplace. Neither of those previous two killed off inworld shopping the way people are claiming Marketplace is. That's because SLex and XStreet did not have the reach of the SL Marketplace whereby LL can email virtually everyone with offers, it wasn't part of the official website, you needed different logins and balances weren't merged. The Marketplace has undoubtedly hit inworld shopping and the knock on effect of hitting roleplaying, entertainment and arts sims who used to offset costs by having rentals. As someone else above said, if your model is shop rentals, then you're on the rocky road to ruin, that's where we're at but the rise of the Marketplace has certainly played a large part in this changing face of shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ciaran Laval wrote: Tari Landar wrote: Marketplace is not the first of it's kind. It was SLex long before it was Xstreet. It was Xstreet long before it was Marketplace. Neither of those previous two killed off inworld shopping the way people are claiming Marketplace is. That's because SLex and XStreet did not have the reach of the SL Marketplace whereby LL can email virtually everyone with offers, it wasn't part of the official website, you needed different logins and balances weren't merged. The Marketplace has undoubtedly hit inworld shopping and the knock on effect of hitting roleplaying, entertainment and arts sims who used to offset costs by having rentals. As someone else above said, if your model is shop rentals, then you're on the rocky road to ruin, that's where we're at but the rise of the Marketplace has certainly played a large part in this changing face of shopping. And some merchants refuse to see this. They refuse to adapt where possible. Some refuse to even try. Like I said, there is a lot wrong with marketplace. But there is an awful lot more wrong with inworld shopping than just marketplace being what it is. Merchants have a lot more ability to optimize than they seem to realize, or care. I honestly don't know. I sure as heck don't optimize the way I could, or used to, if I wanted to, lol.(but I don't have a need, or desire to right at the moment, I don't mind if MP makes the bulk of my sales for now-and I have my reasons). I understand why some merchants don't want MP to be the bulk of their sales. I do understand the decline we have seen. I just happen to think merchants aren't doing nearly enough for themselves as they could be. The same applies to other sim owners. Mall rentals, shopping centers, clubs that rely on store rentals, roleplay sims, etc... Many, many of them could be doing more, and they're choosing not to, or don't know how/what to do. Instead, they're choosing to compain about MP left and right and put blame anywhere but on themselves-I believe they hold responsibility for their businesses as well. Of course some of the complaints are valid, but if that's all they're going to do, and not even make an attempt at making things better for themselves, I can't have much sympathy. Well, I won't. If I were complaining about my inworld sales lacking, the first place I'd look, is myself. In fact, it was myself, back when I had a much larger store and it wasn't doing so hot. Which was long before Marketplace. I'm the one responsible for making certain I can make a profit, no one else. If LL wants to stick their hand in my cookie jar, and I know they do, I need to make sure they can't take out more than I can. They may do things to make it more difficult for me, but it's not their job to make certain I can profit. It would be nice if they did, but it's not realistic. The same concepts can be, and are, applied to rl business. Brick and mortar locations vs online ones. It's a challenge sometimes. It's not always easy. A merchant can be hit pretty hard-and in rl we have a lot more to contend with. But it's not an impossible task. It just might take a little creativity. Like I said before, I've visited several merchants over the last year who've decided to revamp(mostly places I stopped going to because the experience got to be overwhelmingly annoying), and make things easier on their customers. They're no longer hurting because of MP. I'd say they've got a pretty good handle on things. As do other merchants and sim owners who, despite what MP offers, are still well off with inworld sales/traffic/business. There are plenty of them around. You won't likely hear from as many because that's not how things work. Complaints are always louder than compliments. We know LL isn't going to likely listen(doesn't mean we should stop asking, far from it, we should keep on them about things) so we should start looking at ways we can help ourselves. If it was impossible, no one would manage. It IS possible, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Well things are what they are, places do have to adapt or die and with 12% of private regions vanishing from Second Life during 2012, then some are clearly dying, although there are a variety of reasons why those sims have vanished, it's certainly not all the fault of the marketplace, there are many other factors. The marketplace is here to stay, so people do have to deal with it and adjust their business models accordingly and yes it is similar to the bricks and mortar challenge facing high streets the world over. However, if Linden Lab struggle to find inroads into income streams other than tier payments, which is by far their primary income stream, then it's little wonder that sim owners fail to make inroads into alternative income streams too. I agree with you that some places can adjust and prosper, it takes some work and some creative thinking but it's not as easy as it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suki Hirano Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Shab Aelberts wrote: Good evening This is not a first time we get a complain from one of best creators on SL about not get selling of items on SL in world in some regions, because of lot of newbie's/ new avatars come and join in SL, and then they use marketplace as there stores even there membership are basic. And we lost lot of good tenants in our regions/ homesteads, because of there are no one visit shops in world like before, and they prefer always to buy items from marketplace for very cheap prices. And the reason is: Excessive use on marketplace and no more cost than a store in world. And therefore we see lot of tenants left there other shops in many regions on SL in world. We pay always for rental regions and homesteads, but we don't get any profits or returns of money back. Now I will take more serious for this situation we have at the moment. If it will still be continue with problem so we will lose our business and projects on SL in world, and therefore we want Linden Lab Support to find a solution for this issue. I hope also all people will join the discussion. Regards: Shab Aelberts Business man and founder of Future City. Translation: Some people who aren't talented enough to create good stuff that look like they were created in 2012/2013 and thus not have much sales, yet their ego still forces themselves to rent huge sims with huge shops for the false appearance of a very high class shop, are complaining that there are countless "indie" creators now who make much better stuff and sell them in e-shops for much more reasonable prices. In order to make these new talented creators look bad, we shall refer to them as "newbies with no premium subscriptions", they are the bad guys who are stealing profit that we delusionally think belongs to us, since we did rule the market in the no-online-marketplace days. Also for some reason SL citizens seems to have developed a tendency to enjoy convenience of shopping online, but we have no idea why this is the case. So Linden Lab, please kill all new instances of creativity and revert SL back to its primitive ways so customers are forced to shop in-world, and only restricted to shop in our old shops. Solution: technically it doesn't need one because it's one of the best things to happen to SL. All the people who are still stuck in their 2007-ish ways are driven out, all the new talent are pouring in, driving prices down. Seriously this is one of the funniest posts I've read in a while. Please go back to business 101 and learn the basics of the market kthnx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenie Lane Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 I still want do a extra addon, and don't get me wrong Shab, it is not a attack to you or anyone, i know you created a wonderful sim, and i do know you work hard for it. But with a same idea as marketplace works now for a lot people that want "try" to setup a business, it happened the same way with get Sims. People that want run a club had or have profit in mind to, and 2 years ago it was so easy, : Get a sim, build a club, rent out stores , and u even make profit, how more fun it can be, play the game how we want it and prefer with no cost, ask shop renters to sponsors the events ( always shop renters LOL ) to get traffic in, and the sales start , renters happy, sim owner happy, but the big issue of this was ........Lots people had same idea, Sims where added daily, when i came online i found daily 10-20 notecard with new opening Sims if i wanted to rent a store. Maybe its possible there where just to much Sims on the grid? I have a place myself to that runs on shop rentals ( no profit place) but i just want try to keep this place up as one of the oldest places of sl to dance and hang out, but find a new renter for that place is getting hard, where you notice alot shop owners only want on split profit , and this is in this period almost a same as give a shop away for free. But to make my long story short, and less typoses, i always see more reasons as only one, is it marketplace or is it the a mouth of Sims we had that time , is it not the strongest will survive? Like i saw before , SL is always moving and its up to any business to grow with it or stay behind and maybe loose in the end. I will not force any people to get a pay account but it wouldn't be a bad idea to get access to marketplace for free, any one that want try to setup a business must be willing to bring some investments to , there are times you need LL helps and than its easier to have pay account anyways, and IM not go discuss the way helps works LOL there more topics about that, but if u see it as a game stick to the game and play the game, if u want try to get a business maybe act like a business owner than and be willing to invest in that . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Greenie Lane wrote: I will not force any people to get a pay account but it wouldn't be a bad idea to get access to marketplace for free, any one that want try to setup a business must be willing to bring some investments to , there are times you need LL helps and than its easier to have pay account anyways, and IM not go discuss the way helps works LOL there more topics about that, but if u see it as a game stick to the game and play the game, if u want try to get a business maybe act like a business owner than and be willing to invest in that . I'm going to guess this is just a language barrier issue. As this, the bolded, is absolutely terrible advice, as it is stated there. You might want to rethink that approach, after taking a good long look at some of the long standing merchants and land owners in SL. You don't need to be premium to invest. You don't need to be premium to have a business. Thousands upon thousands of people invest in Sl, without ever having a premium account, both merchants and non-merchants alike. You can bring rl money into sl without having a premium account. All you need is payment info on file. Thousands upon thousands of merchants, really great ones, are not premium members. I don't see making anyone premium to use marketplace, or have a store, as any sort of solution that would ever be viable for SL. Not when it's been the way it is for so very long, and LL offers very little perks when it comes to being premium. Being able to use marketplace alone, is not going to be enough of a perk. Even when added in with the other "benefits'(and I use that term loosely) LL says premium comes with. The entire concept of premium and everything it entails would need an overhaul, a serious one-on top of a general overhaul of Sl, before something like that becomes a viable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Shab, I created my SL business almost 3 years ago. No, i didnt started with the "free" market place store. I started renting small shops for lil tiers and lil prim allowance. After a few weeks, yes, i decided to open a Market place store. My experience with small shops in malls isnt what i may call a real pleasant experience. Impossible to work for my traffic in each of my stores. Rare sales. Lag. and not too mention too the mall owners who suddelndly decide to close the mall and just give you (when they do) 1 day to get your stuffs back. Not to mention too, that install and derezz stores needs time, a time i take on my creation time, on my fun time, on my RL time. Then, i decided to install a mainstore. Nowaday, i dont want any other small store. My mainstore is in the middle of a beautifull public garden (my land). I work 1 or 2 hours daily for my traffic (noone before, in any mall have bring me same traffic) and yes, its works, a lot of works, bec this has to be added to creation time and rl job and tons of others tasks to do daily, but work pays always. Not always at first.... but it always pays in the end. So now, i no longer want to rent store in malls like yours. No thanks ! Will you do the same work i do in my mainstore everyday for bringing traffic in the store i rent to you ? No, i dont think you will. (btw, i have indeed, 2 small others shops. One is in my best SL friend, place. i dont pay for it, she has also a room in my store. Another is in a hunt mall place, its just for support. I never sell anything there. Because i do not work for it !) Now about my market place and my inworld store. NO NO NO. my market place store doesnt have best result than my inworld store. And really far . actually. i do 80 % of my sales inworld . Yes. Here again, i owe this result to my daily work. no more. I dont think my market place store can hurt any SL inworld business, since as you may see, it doesnt even hurt at all my inworld store. About the fact you think pp should be premium for being allowed to have a MarketPlace store....As you can see in my story, when i started my marketplace store i had already an inworld small shop. I dont want to be premium, and i really dont think i will want one day. Nevertheless.... Premium is about 10 usd per month. I do buy for my land tier, uploads and other expenses, an ammount of l$ every month for 50 euros what is about 65 usd. On top, i never cash out my SL incomes and reinvest them all. Now what do you think LL prefer ? your 10 usd per month (who will allow me to have a small land, and well i can have my store there too and keep my ambitions in a lower range) or my 65 usd + 25/40 usd of SL income what are in total 90/105 usd ? what do you think ? Do you think that since im not premium i m giving less money in sl ? Do you think that i have less rights in SL too and so im not legitimate in the MP ? Let me tell you this... The day LL will force me to be premium for having a MP store, i will close my MP store... i dont mind. Its only 20 % of my SL incomes. As i told you i give 90 usd per month to sl... im not worried for 10 poor usd. But i give already commissions on every sales i do in the MP, its another way to contribute to fee but its still one of the possible way. I dont see why i should be billed twice then. Now i think you should ask yourself the right questions : why merchants are bored to rent small stores in mall ? Do you work some hours daily to bring your renters an acceptable real traffic ? And what about customers preferences ? what about the horrible lag in almost all the mall i ever visited ? what about the soul of every store since they all look the same no matter they sell 50's style clothes or japanese make up ? Honnestly, its not a bad news at all for me to see that people leave the anonymus malls without any soul and prefer now mainstores with their own soul. Even when there is a lil lag on my land, people usually enjoy visiting my store. I keep it small, comfy, welcoming. i delete old items sometimes to keep the number of my vendors not too big so pp can search easily. Im often there to welcome them and help them if they need. I really dont think im an exception. i belong maybe to a smaller kind of merchant category but still, this one exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Tari Landar wrote: Marketplace is not the first of it's kind. It was SLex long before it was Xstreet. It was Xstreet long before it was Marketplace. Neither of those previous two killed off inworld shopping the way people are claiming Marketplace is. Plus there was OnRez back in the day as well. LL purchased OnRez and SLex, closed OnRez and, as discussed above, SLex morphed into the current Marketplace over time. So during the hey-day of inworld shopping and malls there were actually two online outlets to purchase content. Speaking for myself on the subject of clubs who rent out advertising space and/or vendors, small stores, etc. - if the landing point is such that I have to try to navigate my way through a laggy area filled with this type of advertising before I get to the club, not only will I not return to that club, I make note of the merchants who have advertisements there and don't buy from them. I have nothing against this practice as a business model; however, when I want to go to a club to dance, I don't want to wade through shopping hell when I'm not in the mood to shop. I *have* seen at least one well-known club change their landing point close to the club entrance but still in a courtyard with merchant ads. I personally much prefer this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Greenie Lane wrote: ...people that want try to get a store running go for the easy way now, open a store on marketplace, its for free , where we started with rent a small cart and if we sold we could rent a store in a mall till we could get are own imperium, agree, inworld is laggy and a lot people always blame scripts and or sculpts but no matter what they try, the place stays laggy, like we hsare more Sims on a server as before to, The thing is, back during the time you describe (start with a small cart, etc.) there was not only one online SL marketplace but two as I mentioned above - OnRez and SLexchange. I didn't hear the same concerns that the online markets were hurting in world stores back then. I think something else to take into account is that there are just fewer people in SL now vs some years ago. Or let's say that the population has stayed the same - some of that population is comprised of people who have been on SL a long time and no longer do much shopping (I fall into that category), another portion are content creators, many of whom are in SL solely for their businesses, thus do not shop for clothes, avatar items, etc. A trend that was being discussed even back in 2008 but I see discussed more frequently now are newer residents (or some oldbies) who have an "entitlement" philosophy. I know one person who has been in SL since 2009 who has never spent one L in world, utilizing only freebies. As far as clubs who need to make tier, every person I have spoken to who owns a club has stated that this is a labor of love and clubs tend to be money-sinks. The majority of the large, well-established clubs that you mentioned in your post are still in SL. I'm not denying that the MP may take some sales from in world but, again, the MP isn't new so I think there are other factors that are contributing to a loss of in world sales. OTOH, I know of at least one merchant who still makes most of her sales in world. A lot of this type of success is how actively and wisely one markets their in world location. I have a tiny store (in world currently closed for rennovation) but when I market it well, I get in-world sales, when I don't...I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Another possible reason for the loss of especially estate sims is LL directly competing with their customers (ie. the people who purchase sims for the purpose of rental housing in a lovely, managed location) by introducing Linden Homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Now i think you should ask yourself the right questions : why merchants are bored to rent small stores in mall ? Do you work some hours daily to bring your renters an acceptable real traffic ? And what about customers preferences ? what about the horrible lag in almost all the mall i ever visited ? what about the soul of every store since they all look the same no matter they sell 50's style clothes or japanese make up ? Honnestly, its not a bad news at all for me to see that people leave the anonymus malls without any soul and prefer now mainstores with their own soul. Even when there is a lil lag on my land, people usually enjoy visiting my store. I keep it small, comfy, welcoming. i delete old items sometimes to keep the number of my vendors not too big so pp can search easily. Im often there to welcome them and help them if they need. I really dont think im an exception. i belong maybe to a smaller kind of merchant category but still, this one exist. This ^^ I MUCH prefer this type of unique shopping experience to malls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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