Medhue Simoni Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Mesh is not more work for an older PC. The PC would have to be ancient to have a problem with mesh, even in the slightest. Mesh actually is extremely better for older PCs, as meshes are far less geometry to render, versus sculpties. Not only have I said this, but similar statements have come from the phoenix people, the Exodus people, and from LL. I run 3 different computer so that I can evaluate problems with different types and aged computers. My oldest computer is more than 5 years old, with an old video card that I can't even remove, and barely meet SL's minimum requirements. It runs all mesh viewers perfectly fine. I'd also like to point out that you can get a brand new PC for $250 and it will run SL just fine, with mesh too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: Mesh is not more work for an older PC. The PC would have to be ancient to have a problem with mesh, even in the slightest. Mesh actually is extremely better for older PCs, as meshes are far less geometry to render, versus sculpties. Not only have I said this, but similar statements have come from the phoenix people, the Exodus people, and from LL. I run 3 different computer so that I can evaluate problems with different types and aged computers. My oldest computer is more than 5 years old, with an old video card that I can't even remove, and barely meet SL's minimum requirements. It runs all mesh viewers perfectly fine. I'd also like to point out that you can get a brand new PC for $250 and it will run SL just fine, with mesh too. The problem we're looking at, Medhue, is many people in SL don't consider SL to be a game, so they don't pay attention to computer hardware specs, or follow technology. They use ancient typewriters and word processing machines for SL, then stick their fingers in their ears when they're told to upgrade because "This computer was expensive when I bought it, it should run SL fine!" No matter how many times we repeat that mesh is less laggy than sculpts, people will still refuse to update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Toysoldier Thor wrote: Medhue is well known for being one of LL's biggest champions of Mesh - even his pom poms are mesh He has been promoting that mesh is the savoir of the grid and that all non-mesh conformants will surely die a quick death since LL made mesh production last summer. Ok, Toy, this is scary - we're talking alike...lol. I used the word "savior" in reference to mesh as well (not that it is, just that I used the same word) before I read this post. *Cue Twilight Zone music* And I do want to say I'm not jumping on you, Medhue; we just see the whole mesh thing differently. Well, in my case I don't see mesh at all. Actually I *do* see errrr, something, such as: A customer in my store obviously wearing mesh. A resident I encountered wearing mesh while out shopping. The amazing "see through" woman. You get the idea. And you know how I see your mesh sculptures. Honestly, I'm having so much fun "not" seeing mesh that I may continue to use the same non-mesh viewer even when I don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: What some people fail to realize, is that 3d is not all SL. The importance of learning mesh goes way beyond Secondlife. See, myself, as a creator doesn't feel that making items for ONLY 1 platform is a very intelligent way to work, or spend my time. Everything that I make today, can be used anywhere I choose to bring it. In my personal opinion, you'll be writing your own 3d death note by continuing to create only for SL. If people want to occupy their time arguing the mesh or no mesh idiocy, please do it without referencing me. This thread is about Ami and her problems. I seriously doubt that advising her to continuously create items that can only work in SL, is good advice at all. Unlike some people, I looked at Ami's whole collection and I see many items that would be half the prim cost in mesh, not to mention all the other bonuses of mesh. I don't think anyone (that I've read thus far...just replying to posts as I read them) has suggested that Ami *not* use mesh, far from it. Toy encouraged learning to use it. Several of us are saying that we do not believe the non-use of mesh in our creations is THE reason for declining sales. As Deja pointed out, the use of mesh as a VIP gift even impacted her negatively. Deja also made a good point in saying that creators are more excited about mesh than customers. Also, content creators on the grid vary from those to whom their business is the sole reason they are in SL on down the continuum to people who just love to create and have a small business that gives them pleasure. For me, there are soooo many things to do and see in SL that if I decided to close my business today I would still be just as busy and having just as much fun in other venues. And I'm kind of stubborn like this (blame it on the red hair *grins*) - when I'm told I *have* to do something, I tend to do the opposite. When I *can* see mesh, I have made a decision not to purchase anything containing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Need I point out, that soon enough, all non mesh viewers will be obsolete, and I can't wait for this day to happen, as all this BS will stop. I'd also like to point out that I have made detailed statements of what causes most of the lag that people see, and all of this was backed up by others and LL. Specifically 1 of LL's last announcement. Sculpties are a huge part of those problems. People can continue to make nonsensical statements about mesh, but I have yet to see a knowledgable person back those statements up. My enthusiasm about mesh has to do with what is possible with mesh, and what mesh means to the creative people, and residents of SL. Getting rid of all sculpty will be more of an enhancement to SL than anything LL could ever do from a technical standpoint. Never did I say it would save SL. On the contrary, I have stated many times openly that only a good search engine can save SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Toysoldier Thor wrote: Actually Deja... To expand on your argument back to Medhue on his thoughts of leveraging technology that can be used outside SL (like 3D modeling).... using MESH as opposed to Sculpties is actually a huge hinderance to that strategy. Unlike Mesh... all my Sculpty packs were available to be transferred to other competing open sim grids (you all know which ones are SL's competitors). With sculpties I have been making a PROFIT on these grids outside SL. Exactly why would I create Mesh landscape packs that are currently not popular even in SL and 100% not possible to be exported into any other competing grid??? So contrary to Medhue's argument about mesh opens my world to bigger markets.... it is actually the other way around. SCULPTIES have and continue to be the only technology for me to take my creations I built for SL and sell them elsewhere - other open sim. Mesh would completely lock me into SL only. If the OP would take Medhue's advice, she would be limiting her ability to sell her creation in any of these other grids. I can attest to this. (The bolded part.) The talented creator friend I mentioned in a previous post in this thread...she left SL with the mass merchant exodus of 2010 and has made another virtual world her home since then. She has recently returned to SL on a limited basis do to personal reasons; nothing involving her creations or business - that is still on the other grid. She said to me the other day, "Thank goodness <other grid> hasn't adopted mesh yet." Many merchants who set up shop there two years ago, largely based on LL's decision to not allow uploading of any design that was not 100% created by a merchant (ie. no full perm textures, animations, etc. that, until the new LL edict, could be saved to HD as we all know there are NEVER any inventory losess in SL *coughs*) are very well-known, successful merchants, some of whom post on these forums. Some designers completely left SL for that grid, others set up their businesses there as well as kept them in SL and are deriving sales from both, but are hedging their bets in case SL goes under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: I'm not going to go on arguing what I consider ridiculousness and ignorance. If people want to trust in what you say Toy, they have all the right to believe whatever they want to believe. My motive should be plainly clear, and that is to help as many of my fellow creators as I can, inform the public as to why their world sucks and is laggy, and to try and help make this SL world a smooth and enjoyable place to be in. Sculpties do not fit into those goals, and actually goes against them. I think there's two sides of the coin to this "ridiculousness and ignorance." For the record, my world doesn't suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Toy, for the record, I have no preference one way or the other with mesh in SL. Regular prims are often the resource-cheaper way to go and sometimes optimized mesh might be better ... just another tool in the toolbox. I don't think mesh was ready for prime time ... even though they announced that they were going to bring mesh support to SL ... back in 2006! And here we are 6 years later with not only badly done partial implementation, but they use it to cry resource poverty, while at the same time charging for it. I started with mesh some years before SL existed (well before 2003), so mesh isn't a big deal to me, it just "is". The only thing that boggled me when I first saw SL was why you'd build a virtual world and not add mesh support from day one. Regardless I keep my mesh work separate from SL primarily because as some Lindens have admitted, it is in SL's best interests to keep the price of our goods down to retain new users (and unspoken ... to free up more money to go to SL and less money to go to merchants and other users). Mesh for anyone is a choice, make it work for you or don't like any other aspect of doing business in SL. Mesh sales "outside" of SL don't require me to pay for the priviledge of listing it or putting it up for sale, the priviledge of using it, and it's in both our interests for these other entities to keep prices reasonable and not on the budget end, because we all make more money and people are worth their time. Because LL has no such values to their users (they want more than their fair share, they charge you for uploading, charge you for hosting, charge you for selling, etc.), they're not attracting mesh creators from the outside. LL doesn't value peoples time, rather they ask for content for free and then charge you on every single aspect of its use. Talk about a deal! If LL employees time were so devalued for programming and other skills and they weren't capable of making their 80k salaries, they wouldn't be working at LL. Not exactly balanced there, just asking us to bend over would be a time saver. Regardless, it was more about a financial decision than mesh with Ami. Otherwise I don't care whether something I like is mesh or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: Mesh is not more work for an older PC. The PC would have to be ancient to have a problem with mesh, even in the slightest. Mesh actually is extremely better for older PCs, as meshes are far less geometry to render, versus sculpties. Not only have I said this, but similar statements have come from the phoenix people, the Exodus people, and from LL. I run 3 different computer so that I can evaluate problems with different types and aged computers. My oldest computer is more than 5 years old, with an old video card that I can't even remove, and barely meet SL's minimum requirements. It runs all mesh viewers perfectly fine. I'd also like to point out that you can get a brand new PC for $250 and it will run SL just fine, with mesh too. *Sighs* I suppose I'll have to go into this again. I'm surprised supposedly techie types are not aware of this. I cannot run mesh because my PC does not support SEE2 technology which is necessary to run the viewers that support mesh including SL v.3, Firestorm, the newest Phoenix, and Coo Viewer. Yes my PC is ancient by today's standards; however I purchased it years ago as a gaming computer and upgraded it over the years with a new MB, vid card and RAM. I can no longer simply upgrade certain components because a new vid card will not work with my current MB. If I upgrade the MB, my current RAM is not compliant with it; thus the necessity to purchase a new PC entirely. The interesting thing is, except for not being able to see mesh or participate in Direct Delivery, my PC still runs every other program, including two very graphics-intensive MMORPGs beautifully, and with no lag. Yes, I could likely have a better "SL experience" overall by upgrading, but when one has to live on VERY limited means, something I daresay you do not, based on your comments of the money you are making, choices have to be made. I cannot even afford $250. To someone who doesn't live my life it may seem unbelievable, but it's true for me nonetheless. A family member who knows how much enjoyment I get from SL has very graciously offered to purchase a new PC for me as a gift. After much conversation we decided that to spend a bit more than the lower end PC will be more cost effective for the long term. Since this is a gift, I have no control over when I will acquire this PC. /adds another mark on the wall as to how many people I have had to "educate" on this issue...and it's starting to get reaaaaaaalllly old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Mesh is not more work for an older PC. The PC would have to be ancient to have a problem with mesh, even in the slightest. Mesh actually is extremely better for older PCs, as meshes are far less geometry to render, versus sculpties. Not only have I said this, but similar statements have come from the phoenix people, the Exodus people, and from LL. I run 3 different computer so that I can evaluate problems with different types and aged computers. My oldest computer is more than 5 years old, with an old video card that I can't even remove, and barely meet SL's minimum requirements. It runs all mesh viewers perfectly fine. I'd also like to point out that you can get a brand new PC for $250 and it will run SL just fine, with mesh too. The problem we're looking at, Medhue, is many people in SL don't consider SL to be a game, so they don't pay attention to computer hardware specs, or follow technology. They use ancient typewriters and word processing machines for SL, then stick their fingers in their ears when they're told to upgrade because "This computer was expensive when I bought it, it should run SL fine!" No matter how many times we repeat that mesh is less laggy than sculpts, people will still refuse to update. You know, Gadget, comments like yours when you have NO IDEA of what someone may be dealing with in RL is less than helpful to say the least. When you come down with a debilitating illness some day and have to make an extremely limited income cover the necessities of life, then get back to me on how I'm sticking my fingers in my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Czari Zenovka wrote: You know, Gadget, comments like yours when you have NO IDEA of what someone may be dealing with in RL is less than helpful to say the least. When you come down with a debilitating illness some day and have to make an extremely limited income cover the necessities of life, then get back to me on how I'm sticking my fingers in my ears. Like it or not, 3D gaming is like any other hobby, it has equipment costs. In this case, it's computer hardware. If you can't afford it, this may not be the hobby for you. That statement comes across as really mean, but I can't think of a polite way to put it. Rock climbers have to buy rope and other equipment regularly. Even stamp collectors need to invest in storage for their stamps. Those of us into online gaming need to invest in keeping our computer hardware up to date. Sounds like you were doing that for a while, why'd you stop? As long as you keep up with it, you should never have to buy an entire computer. Granted, a mobo purchase can add up, but if you do it right and in a timely fashion, even the cost of that can be reasonable. If the day ever comes where I get a debilitating illness and can't afford to fund my gaming, I'll have to find a hobby I can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: You know, Gadget, comments like yours when you have NO IDEA of what someone may be dealing with in RL is less than helpful to say the least. When you come down with a debilitating illness some day and have to make an extremely limited income cover the necessities of life, then get back to me on how I'm sticking my fingers in my ears. Like it or not, 3D gaming is like any other hobby, it has equipment costs. In this case, it's computer hardware. If you can't afford it, this may not be the hobby for you. That statement comes across as really mean, but I can't think of a polite way to put it. Rock climbers have to buy rope and other equipment regularly. Even stamp collectors need to invest in storage for their stamps. Those of us into online gaming need to invest in keeping our computer hardware up to date. Sounds like you were doing that for a while, why'd you stop? As long as you keep up with it, you should never have to buy an entire computer. Granted, a mobo purchase can add up, but if you do it right and in a timely fashion, even the cost of that can be reasonable. If the day ever comes where I get a debilitating illness and can't afford to fund my gaming, I'll have to find a hobby I can afford. I don't need to justify my life to you. Yes you have made an extremely mean comment. And perhaps you'll rethink this when your charmed life changes. Thanks to you, I think I'll refrain from posting here for awhile...I have enough to deal with in RL to debate with someone who obviously has their head up their rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: soon enough, all non mesh viewers will be obsolete, and I can't wait for this day to happen, as all this BS will stop. I hope you are right. I was stunned to see LL not make mesh a consistent part of the SL experience like they did with introduction of sculpty. So incredibly stupid the situation still continues to this day. As if the tiny niche market of SL needs to be further fractured & splintered. The day I can not login with a non-mesh viewer & mesh is properly visible right away by default settings of viewer I would take SL seriously again.... if, and this is a big IF, if they also stop concurrency from declining by a thousand people every few weeks. Realistically? I don't see either of these things happening. --||- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Deja Letov wrote: I have to agree with Toy. Just as an example, I have a paid to join VIP group and each month to that group I give away one free product. The product is always a new creation. Well 2 months ago my new product was a mesh object. It was the first mesh object I've offered in my store so I thought why not start with my group of VIP'ers. I got sooooo many IM's from customers asking me if I was going to continue to do only mesh for my group gift and really raising some negative comments from those people if I planned to do so. I have made a conscious decision to 1. not release mesh as a VIP group gift anymore and 2. not really focus on providing mesh even as a regular product offering, except a few random scattered products. I've played with it a bit and have made just a handful of items, but strangely they are not good selling items, even being mesh. I just don't see mesh as a strong reason for a business being successful. In fact I see it more impressive to content creators than to buyers. Buyers just want what looks good, they don't care how it gets there. mesh may have its day one day, but I don't think it's quite ready today. As for the OP, I would definitely cut back on maybe one sim that isn't producing revenue. Don't give up completely, just make cuts. I have been building only mesh for a year now. I made my first release when Phoenix added mesh viewing. People did ask if I planned to make only mesh from then on, and I said yes, of course. No one complained tho I am sure I may have lost some sales on that account. OTOH I have ppl come in the store and buy a mesh house, a mesh kitchen, a mesh living room, a mesh dining room, a mesh bedroom, and a mesh office set. They clearly want mesh and only mesh. I knew two years ago that I had to learn mesh or go the way of the dinosaur, and it made me very anxious because it was so difficult, and I was so dumb. I was very very fortunate to have met a wonderful mentor and best friend who has helped me, or I simply could not have done it. Therefore I can't tell people to go learn mesh because I could not have done it myself without a great deal of help. But mesh will become the gold standard for SL, there is no question about that whatsoever. I am glad that has not happened instantly because I have 4 sims of non mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amiryu Hosoi Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Well, I would like to thank anyone here for their replies so far. I dont think mesh or no mesh is the problem, The lack of "playmoney" is the real problem I think. I run a graphic design studio in RL and business in RL is also down the drain. People choose to "compose" and print their own letterheads instead of calling in a skilled studio or company. They don't have the cash and they don't seem to care for quality. Economy is bad and if we should believe the rumors it will get even worse. Up untill a month or 2 agoo I was running even or with slight profit. Not anymore. I could keep up the marketplace and 1 homestead to build my RL designs but what makes me most sad is the fact that I am letting all those people down. Those people have been around for ages and won't have a home or place to play in short time. If I had the funds in RL I would keep the sims up even if that would mean loosing USD 1200 a month. Thing is, I am working my ass of setting up this new company and in the meantime there is no cash flowing in. Anyway, I don't think I will leave SL but I won't rebuild the sims eighter. I just dont have the time and energy for it and I need to focus on new horizons Like my nerw My Oriental Garden project. What I am going to do is film the most important hotspots to have something to remember. I has been fun while it lasted. Now I need to go tell my people;-( Thank you all again and best wishes, Ami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Amiryu Hosoi wrote: Well, I would like to thank anyone here for their replies so far. I dont think mesh or no mesh is the problem, The lack of "playmoney" is the real problem I think. I run a graphic design studio in RL and business in RL is also down the drain. People choose to "compose" and print their own letterheads instead of calling in a skilled studio or company. They don't have the cash and they don't seem to care for quality. I'm sure they do care about the quality but it's a case of arriving at a result that meets their needs and budget. For something such as basic letterhead upon which all sorts of stationary can be printed, good bond paper and a quality laser printer will suffice for the small companies for example. They don't necessarily need to contract this out. (We don't need to get into all sorts of debate about logo design etc, there are plenty of templates for those that choose that route too.) Overall though, I agree, there's a lack of spending money and concurrency is way down, the people aren't here either. As a little humour with regard to "graphic designers", i'll share this:- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Mackie Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thanks Czari ... I had to look up "QFT" *grins* P.S. I think Gadget is a little judgemental. I could say something like "Well, when your parents decide to turn the basement into a craft room and you have to move out and start paying for your own expenses, maybe you'll have a more compassionate outlook." But I don't know Gadget's circumstances so, much as I'd like to rip him a new one, I'll practice compassion and loving kindness. P.P.S. And yes, the original topic had more to do with declining participation, slowing sales, and LL pricing practices. Several have posted some good ideas for those issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Ami, That is exactly what I read from your OP - that you were trying to point out how the economy and what ever other factors have directly started to impact your SECONDLIFE related revenue and profits to the point that your generated profits no longer can self-sustain your cost of sims that you offer up free for use to the SL community. To the point that you NOW are being forced to dip into RL $ to pay for these sims. I also remember from past discussions (which you have again pointed out in the above posting) that you have a RL income designing and even staff that assists with your SL creating and operations. As such, it was common sense to me that you would not asking or looking for advice on how to change your SL creation method to look on how to make better money outside SL. This was all about you point out that SL's economy combined with LL's unwillingness to re-think nor even negotiate sim teir pricing is going to force you to shut down these public use sims becaue you are only willing to support them if SL's revenue can pay for them. Your OP was very clear from what I read. That is why myself and other thought Medhue's "mesh is the answer to your problem" was: a) not even a valid solution since Mesh is NOT a new magic money generator for most, b) it was not even in line with your OP. You are correct - Mesh or No Mesh - is not the solution. The solution to keep the free sims alive only by the profits generated by you in SL is mostly out of your control. Sadly, you cannot control the RL economy nor the slow demise of the SL economy. LL has some of this control but "THEY DONT GET IT". So shutting down your free non-revenue generating sims to me is the most logical option. Best you get out before it eats too much of your RL $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 [general reply, not to anyone in particular] By the way, I don't mind when people dislike my posts- everyone's entitled to an opinion, good or bad, but sending your friends to harrass me in-world because of a forum post is petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: [general reply, not to anyone in particular] By the way, I don't mind when people dislike my posts- everyone's entitled to an opinion, good or bad, but sending your friends to harrass me in-world because of a forum post is petty. Since you and I had one of the most heated errrr "discussion" in this thread, I want to state that it was not me - I also agree that's petty. ETA: I also apologize for my last post to you, Gadget. It's a very touchy subject with me and I let my emotion over-rule my better judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: You know, Gadget, comments like yours when you have NO IDEA of what someone may be dealing with in RL is less than helpful to say the least. When you come down with a debilitating illness some day and have to make an extremely limited income cover the necessities of life, then get back to me on how I'm sticking my fingers in my ears. Like it or not, 3D gaming is like any other hobby, it has equipment costs. In this case, it's computer hardware. If you can't afford it, this may not be the hobby for you. That statement comes across as really mean, but I can't think of a polite way to put it. Rock climbers have to buy rope and other equipment regularly. Even stamp collectors need to invest in storage for their stamps. Those of us into online gaming need to invest in keeping our computer hardware up to date. Sounds like you were doing that for a while, why'd you stop? As long as you keep up with it, you should never have to buy an entire computer. Granted, a mobo purchase can add up, but if you do it right and in a timely fashion, even the cost of that can be reasonable. If the day ever comes where I get a debilitating illness and can't afford to fund my gaming, I'll have to find a hobby I can afford. If there is just a little bit of common sense within the strategy makers at LL - it is that they dont ALWAYS listen to the propeller-head geeks who have more time and free money on their hands and that have ZERO clue how to run a large business. If LL would take the advice of Medhue and Gadget.... the already declining SL business and service run by LL would collapse even faster. Why? So let me tell you why not only is Medhue and Gadget's "force everyone on SL to MESH-Only viewers and screw any of the SL resdient community that is too cheap or too poor to afford upgraded computers to participate" beliefs rude and callous, its downright 100% STUPID ! So regardless of whatever BS stats LL might try to fling around, I am going to make a rough guess is that about 1/3 (~ 30%) of LL real human accounts / users (not the alt count - the humans that run all the avatars) have not switched to a viewer that is Mesh capable. Czari gave a couple reasons but I have heard many other reason and my small scale stats from all those that visit my gallery tell me its about 30% that refuse or cannot upgrade to mesh capable viewers. I dont know the total poplation of real human active SL residents but lets say its about 1 million (the number is not too important but anyone chime in if they know a more accurate estimate). SO...... What Gadget and Medhue are suggesting is that screw the 30% of the SL population that for one reason or another cannot use mesh viewers. In this duo's understanding, SL is a gaming environment (where they are completely wrong again) and since its a gaming environment, members need to Pay to Play. As such, even though for all these years prior to mesh, the entire population of SL was able to participate.... what this wise business-savvy <cough> duo thinks is the right thing to do is for LL to force all residents to use mesh-only viewers! Now I am sure most other Merchants reading this posting aready know what that means if LL was stupid enough to listen to this duo... but since Gadget and Medhue clearly do not understand business strategy and only care that they have the coolest propeller-head spinning new gaming environment to play in... I will spell it out for these two. What Gadget and Medhue are saying is that LL should force 30% of LL's customers or about ~300,000 participants to leave "THEIR GAME". Hmmm... considering that LL's SL usage has been declining for the past years.... considering that last year LL watch 1800 sims abandoned.... considering that with all the other open sims competition as well as new cooler competition just now showing up - SL's new signups are sinking fast... Gadget & Medhue, do your really think its a wise idea to force 1/3 of SL's population to LL's competitiors where the current viewers will happily work there? And I wonder what both your SL merchant sales will be like when a 1/3 of SL's population does a mass migration to the other grids? Like I said, LL is often not the smartest business planner and are normally lead-by-the-nose by both their own internal "I wanna develop cool stuff" and SL tech geeks like these two that show up at all the tech user group meetings LL hosts and whispers in LL's ear that "we need more tech cool stuff"... but at least when it comes to this decision - even LL undertands how stupid an idea this would be. PS Gadget - let me help you out a bit.... SecondLife IS NOT A GAMING ENVIRONMENT! Its a virtual world.... it has countless communties that dont give a S**T about mesh nor pathfinder nor material systems nor all the other amazing new things that Rodvik and the tech geeks want to add to SL. They want to simply interact and socialize and do community things. I dont need mesh or pathfinder or countless other things to: sing at a karaoke club to go to the countless clubs and dance places to go listen to live concerts to go the countless art galleries in sl to hang with my SL friends to participate in several of the RPs that have happily existed in SL for a long time before this tech showed up etc etc etc Notice something in this list Gadget? NONE OF IT IS GAMING! If you want to game... go to WOW or Half Life or to the countless other propeller-head infested, HW Ego concentrated, goal driven environments. SecondLife is not this environment... so maybe instead to telling Czari to leave SL if she can afford it... maybe you and Medhue should leave to a true GAMING world where you both can get your Geek on. Nuff Said ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Czari Zenovka wrote: Gadget Portal wrote: [general reply, not to anyone in particular] By the way, I don't mind when people dislike my posts- everyone's entitled to an opinion, good or bad, but sending your friends to harrass me in-world because of a forum post is petty. Since you and I had one of the most heated errrr "discussion" in this thread, I want to state that it was not me - I also agree that's petty. ETA: I also apologize for my last post to you, Gadget. It's a very touchy subject with me and I let my emotion over-rule my better judgement. You don't have to apologize to me. Nothing you said was offensive or mean or in any way inappropriate. Toysoldier Thor wrote: Gadget Portal wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: You know, Gadget, comments like yours when you have NO IDEA of what someone may be dealing with in RL is less than helpful to say the least. When you come down with a debilitating illness some day and have to make an extremely limited income cover the necessities of life, then get back to me on how I'm sticking my fingers in my ears. Like it or not, 3D gaming is like any other hobby, it has equipment costs. In this case, it's computer hardware. If you can't afford it, this may not be the hobby for you. That statement comes across as really mean, but I can't think of a polite way to put it. Rock climbers have to buy rope and other equipment regularly. Even stamp collectors need to invest in storage for their stamps. Those of us into online gaming need to invest in keeping our computer hardware up to date. Sounds like you were doing that for a while, why'd you stop? As long as you keep up with it, you should never have to buy an entire computer. Granted, a mobo purchase can add up, but if you do it right and in a timely fashion, even the cost of that can be reasonable. If the day ever comes where I get a debilitating illness and can't afford to fund my gaming, I'll have to find a hobby I can afford. If there is just a little bit of common sense within the strategy makers at LL - it is that they dont ALWAYS listen to the propeller-head geeks who have more time and free money on their hands and that have ZERO clue how to run a large business. If LL would take the advice of Medhue and Gadget.... the already declining SL business and service run by LL would collapse even faster. Why? So let me tell you why not only is Medhue and Gadget's "force everyone on SL to MESH-Only viewers and screw any of the SL resdient community that is too cheap or too poor to afford upgraded computers to participate" beliefs rude and callous, its downright 100% STUPID ! So regardless of whatever BS stats LL might try to fling around, I am going to make a rough guess is that about 1/3 (~ 30%) of LL real human accounts / users (not the alt count - the humans that run all the avatars) have not switched to a viewer that is Mesh capable. Czari gave a couple reasons but I have heard many other reason and my small scale stats from all those that visit my gallery tell me its about 30% that refuse or cannot upgrade to mesh capable viewers. I dont know the total poplation of real human active SL residents but lets say its about 1 million (the number is not too important but anyone chime in if they know a more accurate estimate). SO...... What Gadget and Medhue are suggesting is that screw the 30% of the SL population that for one reason or another cannot use mesh viewers. In this duo's understanding, SL is a gaming environment (where they are completely wrong again) and since its a gaming environment, members need to Pay to Play. As such, even though for all these years prior to mesh, the entire population of SL was able to participate.... what this wise business-savvy <cough> duo thinks is the right thing to do is for LL to force all residents to use mesh-only viewers! Now I am sure most other Merchants reading this posting aready know what that means if LL was stupid enough to listen to this duo... but since Gadget and Medhue clearly do not understand business strategy and only care that they have the coolest propeller-head spinning new gaming environment to play in... I will spell it out for these two. What Gadget and Medhue are saying is that LL should force 30% of LL's customers or about ~300,000 participants to leave "THEIR GAME". Hmmm... considering that LL's SL usage has been declining for the past years.... considering that last year LL watch 1800 sims abandoned.... considering that with all the other open sims competition as well as new cooler competition just now showing up - SL's new signups are sinking fast... Gadget & Medhue, do your really think its a wise idea to force 1/3 of SL's population to LL's competitiors where the current viewers will happily work there? And I wonder what both your SL merchant sales will be like when a 1/3 of SL's population does a mass migration to the other grids? Like I said, LL is often not the smartest business planner and are normally lead-by-the-nose by both their own internal "I wanna develop cool stuff" and SL tech geeks like these two that show up at all the tech user group meetings LL hosts and whispers in LL's ear that "we need more tech cool stuff"... but at least when it comes to this decision - even LL undertands how stupid an idea this would be. PS Gadget - let me help you out a bit.... SecondLife IS NOT A GAMING ENVIRONMENT! Its a virtual world.... it has countless communties that dont give a S**T about mesh nor pathfinder nor material systems nor all the other amazing new things that Rodvik and the tech geeks want to add to SL. They want to simply interact and socialize and do community things. I dont need mesh or pathfinder or countless other things to: sing at a karaoke club to go to the countless clubs and dance places to go listen to live concerts to go the countless art galleries in sl to hang with my SL friends to participate in several of the RPs that have happily existed in SL for a long time before this tech showed up etc etc etc Notice something in this list Gadget? NONE OF IT IS GAMING! If you want to game... go to WOW or Half Life or to the countless other propeller-head infested, HW Ego concentrated, goal driven environments. SecondLife is not this environment... so maybe instead to telling Czari to leave SL if she can afford it... maybe you and Medhue should leave to a true GAMING world where you both can get your Geek on. Nuff Said ! No, you're a stupid propeller-head (WTF is a propeller-head?), not us. Name calling doesn't help anyone. Stay focused. Just because people don't treat it as a game doesn't make it any less an interactive 3D virtual environment, just like any MMO, and it requires the same client side hardware as a game. And like any of those other 3D virtual envirnments, updates and upgrades are a good thing. You can either keep your platform current with technology, or you can go the way of AOL. LL's not losing people because they're frinally trying to keep up with current technology, that's a terrible assement in the current technology driven world. If anything, taking this long to start updating the platform cost them more users than updating ever will. There's a billion other things LL is doing wrong. Finally getting mesh and getting into this decade for 3D creation is not one of them. Newer technology like mesh and pathfinding functions means better optimization and less lag doing the things we've already been doing for a while. For example, as Medhue keeps saying, as mesh replaces more and more sculpties, FPS lag will be reduced. Another example, as far as Pathfinding is concerned- there's a lot of products out there that use complex scripting to chart out automated paths. I've made a few. There's zombies, drones, robots, NPC's on roleplay sims, vehicles that wander the mainland roads, etc. Pathfinding functions will cut script memory and time in half on those types of objects. That improves server lag. I see both as good things for everyone, not just "propeller-head geeks". Tip of the Day: Learn something about the technology you're using. It helps a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 LL is losing SL customer - NOT because they were missing Mesh or PathFidner. They are losing users for many reasons and most of the reasons are related to LL not focusing on maintaining and improving current features and functions. Instead of putting all their development on mesh, pathfinder and countless other NEW SHINY cool things that only add to sim load, LL for a long time should have focused on: reducing lag (improving hw platform horsepower and lower sims / physical server and many other boring but important improvements) dealing with static landmarks that needed to become dynamic long time ago tackling the countless customer Jiras of current functional limitations and bugs that LL completely ignores providing FAR better and more responsive and more friendly customer service dealing with and taking very serious the countless AR's filed against stalkers and sick members that harass innocent fellow members in SL (to the point that either federal authorities need to get involved and SL residents need to leave) reducing costs of operations of SL and passing on these saving to customers in the form of reduced sim Teirs stop making dumb moves like merging the Teen grid to the adult grid and then forcing LL to deploy several restrictions and filters that caused a lot of troubles for merchants, club, owners, and even residents. etc. etc.etc. Did you notice that in many cases LL's efforts require little "COOL NEW HEAVY TECH" effort. If you really think that LL MUST DEPLOY new technologies like mesh, materials systems, pathfinding in order to stop the hemorrhaging SL has been noticing over the past few years.... then explain why so many of the departures of SL residents are to competing grids with far less mature features than SL?? Hmmm - maybe because SL residents are NOT gamers - they are virtual world community participants that want a quality of service and value from SL moreso than they want new cool geek toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 PS Gadget, your response didnt answer my questions.... Do you reallllyyy reallly think its wise for LL to force 30% of SL residents to leave the grid? This is what you suggested to Czari... so please explain how your belifs are wise for LL, SL, SL residents, and even you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 My main concern with Medue's advice was that the topic title - 'Forced to close down' - would probably attract many struggling or new SL content creators who might go away thinking mesh is the only way to be successful. As Pamela pointed out, some people may not find mesh easy to learn (unless you have a mentor), and these people may just throw it all in if they thought this was the only path to success. I don't create mesh (yet) but my partner does, and his mesh products are very unique and well made, and they do sell, but I still make twice the profit he does. So, mesh might be the thing in the future but it isn't a necessity right now. My advice to any struggling creator would be to aim at making high quality, low prim items, then you serve both markets - customer who look for low prim and those who look for quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now