What will you do with the Advanced Creator Tools Launched Today?

[Jo Yardley]

So... any plans?

What will you do wiht these new tools?

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/First-Set-of-Advanced-Creator-Tools-Launched-Today/ba-p/1618627

Teleport Agent
The Teleport Agent is a new LSL call that allows scripts to teleport agents to a particular SLURL or local position. You can now create "portals" or even objects that cause an instant teleport upon being touched.

For scavenger hunts, this tool might be used to instantly direct participants to the next clue or location after they discover a hidden item.

However, there are plenty of other possibilities to consider. In Linden Realms, we used the same feature to "return" players to a safe location after they made contact with any pursuing rock monsters.

We look forward to seeing what innovative uses our creative community comes up with for the Teleport Agent.

Temporary Attachment
Temporary Attachment allows you to create temporary objects like demo attachments or “region specific” gear, without creating unnecessary inventory to manage.* In the context of shopping, you now can try on outfits or accessories before you purchase them.  Think having the ability to "try before you buy.”  

In other examples, an author can provide some unique ways to present information via the HUD.  The next time a visitor enters your establishment, you can push on-screen notifications out to them with ease.

This tool is as versatile as the creator’s ingenuity.  How will you use Temporary Attachment?

[Qie Niangao]

As it stands, the llTeleportAgent* functions are very nerfed, and it's difficult to come up with much of a use case for them. The problem is, according to the wiki documentation, only the owner of the object can be teleported, and it won't work from those new temporary attachments. So, to let anybody else teleport using the functions, you'd have to give them something (like a HUD) with which to invoke the teleport, which is considerably more bother for everyone involved than just popping up a Map window with llMapDestination(). Over on the scripting forum, there's been considerable head-scratching about what practical utility those teleport functions actually have, in their current state, with the current permissions system.

Now, the one narrow space where they win is if the user already possesses something (a HUD, say) that

1. isn't temporarily attached, and
2. can be populated by teleport destinations supplied by other scripts.

In that very restricted case, there's opportunity for quick and easy teleporting to multiple destinations around the grid. So a hunt, for example, could hand out a HUD that hunters must wear, and it would simplify and expedite their quests.

The temporary attachments might be fun for RP settings (attaching weapons, say, or anything--propeller caps, perhaps--just by touching or passing through a space), or for giving out HUDs that enrich experiences in any setting. Say, for example, a Shared Media surface for navigating and searching a store in automatic synchronization with Marketplace. (Okay, that doesn't make much sense, but... something like that.)

Of course, we can safely predict that the first use of any new technology will be better pr0n. :smileytongue:

[Maryanne Solo]

+ mesh deformer then we are really getting somewhere for a total shopping experience.

Well done LL, (keep up the good work) & Ty Jo!

Huh better.. Qie? lol I cant even begin to think how that would work :smileyindifferent:

/me needs a few more years in Sl for that one. 

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Yeah the tools are sadly very much crippled. I've toyed around with it a bit, making a set of doors that go from one sim to another - when walking through they send a TP destination to the avi. If there's no response within a few secs it tells them they need a HUD and offers it to them. With HUD, they just get teleported (the communication is obviously protected so no one can TP people around unsolicited).

The HUD also emulates parts of a RLV relay (the teleport stuff), though I haven't gotten around to adding a trust auth mechanism to it yet. Main reason for emulating RLV? It's already a de-facto standard to communicate TP requests to objects (relays).

[Maelstrom Janus]

Seems like a lot of work to do very little - how about some much needed updating in the very stagnant inworld building menu, a few new and useful building tecniques there to play with would be infinitely more appreciated......

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Useful is a matter of definition. They did pretty much neuter the new functions enough to make them borderline useless. I kinda expect pathfinding to get a similar neutering before it gets released to the main channel.

New build options would be great... like, for example, some simple way to create simple meshes inworld. After all, that's what made SL so attractive: everyone and their dog could build stuff. Alas, I doubt anything like that will happen anytime soon.

[Qie Niangao]

They really don't have to neuter Pathfinding to make it "borderline useless", at least to me. I've played with it a bit and as far as I can tell, it seems to work as described, but... well, maybe somebody else will be inspired to do something truly interesting with it. All I've been able to devise are variants of lame video game characters, and various scuttling-about vermin. I'm sure every urban build will compete for most devious rodenta, and somebody is bound to graft Siri to a Meshy NPC... and then what?

About the llTeleportAgent* functions: I just can't seem to get a Linden to tell us what this Experience Permissions thing is going to be and how (or even if) those teleport functions will work with it. I mean, if the Lab is really never going to let those functions get permission from non-owners, then I can imagine a resident-managed network of trusted teleport destinations and teleportation triggers, to dynamically populate a simple auto-TP HUD that people might choose to wear all the time. But it would be a lot of work to set up and launch such an endeavor, and to maintain it to prevent abuse from creeping in -- and all that work would be moot the instant we get Experience Permissions, if it means what I'd expect.

They do call what we have now "the first set of advanced creator tools" so more must be planned.

[Maelstrom Janus]

I was suggesting new additions to the build menu years ago ...simple stuff that might reinvigorate the stagnant building mechansims available inworld - its a pity those few who went on about meshes so vociferously didnt push for something inworld instead of taking the onus away from lindens who can simply say go off and learn to use some software out there - even though it might be complex, or expensive and even though it cant be used to build inworld...why should they care ? Not only has mesh given Linden labs the excuse to forget all about the inworld builder but it earns them extra revenus too. All that talk about new inworld building features while mesh was going through beta has so far proved false. Lindens couldnt even give use a decent size increase in prims rather than doing the sensible thing and pushing prim size up to 100 metres.....

[Perrie Juran]

I will probably do nothing with them.

While I Imagine there are some things others do that I will get to enjoy, as for myself, I have no desire to copulate with a robot.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Maelstrom Janus wrote:

[...] All that talk about new inworld building features while mesh was going through beta has so far proved false. [...]

---

I honestly don't remember that talk. There were some of us who kept harping on the need for in-world Mesh building tools, and Lindens responded with, roughly, "Would you have us delay introducing this in order to develop those tools first?" In a meeting full of Mesh beta participants, their NDA-gleaming eyes beaming eagerly, it was pretty hard to say "Yeah, dummy, if you keep giving people reasons not to be in-world, why the surprise that nobody goes in-world anymore?"

Then the real time-suck kicked in: Make Mesh be everybody's perfect avatar attachment. Well, we should have seen that coming--as the Mesh clothiers are so fond of telling the Lindens. So, instead of a boon to land-based building, Mesh arrived with hefty Land Impact penalties.

Two things, though.  First, along with Mesh came more generous accounting for most plain old prims when set to mesh-savvy physics types. That has been a very real help in some of my builds, making it possible to put richer content--nearly twofold--on the same bit of land.

Second, to be fair about in-world Mesh building tools: They would be incredibly complex to use, if they really gave all the features used in (say) Blender to make and texture meshes for Second Life. And that's a good argument for extending the existing build tools and the prim representations they manipulate. Either that, or make an in-world Mesh editor that is approachable for the casual user... and that may be making a distinction where there's no real difference.

[Melita Magic]

I would love to see more in world building tools. Ones with intuitive interfaces. That would bring more people in world and keep them there a while. 

They brought in the creator of The Sims, but where is a way to build a house that's as easy and intuitive as it is in that game? For example.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

In-world mesh tools wouldn't (and shouldn't) approach anything external tools like Blender can do. That would be far too complex for the average user, not to mention it'd IMHO take more dev time than it should. A simple subdivision modeler/node manipulation would be sufficient for many purposes.

A simple fantasy how it could work: Rez any in-world prim shape, have a button "convert to mesh", then provide simple tools to subdivide surfaces in a predictable fashion, combine faces in a predictable fashion, move individual nodes in an individual fashion, assign faces to "materials" and some simple(!) UV mapping functions. For anything more complex I'd still refer people to external tools.

Start as simple as possible. Then add complexity. And communicate... that's the big LL fail. Zero communication. I had hopes the new boss would fix that, since he did start out pretty nicely.

[DJBinho Beck]

I have a problem with the function llAttachToAvatarTemp it does not make a copy of the object, it only attaches the object as does the function llAttachToAvatar.
and also when you detach it disappears (kill)
someone could tell me something about it?
thanks

[Qie Niangao]

I played around with llAttachToAvatarTemp() briefly to see how it works, and it seems to do pretty much what's promised, and is somewhat slicker than the old way of getting the same effect.

So, the way it used to work was to rez an object (such as a demo) that you wanted to let a user attach, where that object was set for sale at L$0 and click action "Buy". Then when somebody clicked to buy the object, a CHANGED_OWNER event would fire and the script would get permissions and call llAttachObject. If it failed to get permission after some timeout, the object would have to delete itself so clutter wouldn't be left behind. And once the object was sold (as original), a new instance would have to be rezzed for the next buyer.

It's much the same with llAttachToAvatarTemp() except that it's not necessary to rely on buying the object. Instead, the person can click on something, collide with something, be sensed by something, etc., and a script can rez the to-be-attached object and communicate who it's supposed to attach to, whereupon it requests permission and attaches, etc., as before.

Another important difference is the fact that with llAttachToAvatarTemp() the object is deleted upon detaching. That was always a pain with demo items, in that they'd have to disable themselves when the demo was over, but there was no way to delete them by script while they were attached, so they'd be stuck, useless, in somebody's inventory.

 

[Poenald Palen]

---

Melita Magic wrote:

I would love to see more in world building tools. Ones with intuitive interfaces. That would bring more people in world and keep them there a while. 

They brought in the creator of The Sims, but where is a way to build a house that's as easy and intuitive as it is in that game? For example.

---

I would argue that one could use a 3D home builder software and export it (if avialable, which some do have) and viola...collada import covers a lot of this type of thing.

Plus, SL is a sort of place where people sellthings and there is not really a need for a home. Plus, it is not simulated human life. You can prim up your avatar and be different, so there was not much use in this. But,you do have a point about the majority of residents signing up, that is why LL made the linden homes thingy!

So, maybe they should have made a builder that simply adhered to a style and gives you options of home textures and so  on that match with the neighbourhood. You get to choose something and it also makes the place look a little less planned. But, aren't those homes to help peole get started and if they alll look simlar then who cares...people are used thos this even in real life! You see planned communities with houses all the same, they flip the blueprints over and reverse the floor plan to add variation lol.

[Poenald Palen]

I can see the tools being used to help connect up sim owners who want to make a game tha spans multiple sims, or even some other kind of thing (hunts, right?) that allows them to cooperate.

But, are there enough sim owners to make this work?

Maybe land lords, real estate peoples who won sims might be able to make/buy something nifty for thier renters (commercial or residential) in some way?

LIke, a game that lets wondering shoppers explore the stores and hunt for things? Maybe a shopping HUD that allows them discounts if they buy something from one store or visit a booth and listen to a pitch?> Like, a discount HUD. You shop at one place and a vender plug-in records that you purchased something, so you get a discount at another place via the HUD and a plugin. Or it sends you a gift card? Sort of lets store owners group up and the sim owner gets a little more traffic from people sticking at the sim to see if they want to use the gift card at this time or not. Stuff like that.

[Persephone Emerald]

So in using the 2 new tools together, could an avatar attach an object that allows them to teleport to another area, such as a magic ring or bracelet for instance?

I much prefer them just being able ot walk through a portal though, without having to own the portal. Maybe they cold own the surface of the portal, & then a new one could rez for then next person?

[Melita Magic]

I'm referring to keeping people in world, though. People who like to build and to create but find outside programs too isolating, too expensive, or too fiddly. I'm not talking about finding places to live. I'm not sure that the Linden Homes were a resounding success in retention of new users. I don't really know, though.

I'm talking about people who have made it past the initial learning curve, and want to stay. But who want to do more than shop and wander. Who are creative but not necessarily highly social. But who might prefer being in SL and creating, at least part of the time, or as an option, vs. sitting disconnected completely, on their computer, and trying to learn Blender (for instance.) Rather, trying to teach themselves to use it.

I think if there were in world building tools that were intuitive to use, WYSIWYG, sort of, (have you built a house in The Sims game? Their create a person thing is not good, though) concurrency or whatever it's called might go up. People would enjoy creating again. The prim belongs to the past in my opinion. Time for a bit more.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Persephone Emerald wrote:

So in using the 2 new tools together, could an avatar attach an object that allows them to teleport to another area, such as a magic ring or bracelet for instance?

I much prefer them just being able ot walk through a portal though, without having to own the portal. Maybe they cold own the surface of the portal, & then a new one could rez for then next person?

---

No such luck.  The llTeleportAgent*() functions are explicitly disabled in objects that have been attached by llAttachToAvatarTemp().

Of course, one could arrange for a regular llAttachToAvatar() by making it become the avatar's property the old-fashioned way (e.g., the buy for L$0 and auto-attach dance I outlined above).

Or, everybody could just decide to wear some normally attached object that is instructed to teleport them by trusted portal objects. Tricky bit: who ya gonna trust?

Even trickier bit: Is it worth trying to devise a trust network, until we know for sure that Experience Permissions won't hand us the solution, whenever it's finally revealed?

[Poenald Palen]

---

Melita Magic wrote:

I'm referring to keeping people in world, though. People who like to build and to create but find outside programs too isolating, too expensive, or too fiddly. I'm not talking about finding places to live. I'm not sure that the Linden Homes were a resounding success in retention of new users. I don't really know, though.

I'm talking about people who have made it past the initial learning curve, and want to stay. But who want to do more than shop and wander. Who are creative but not necessarily highly social. But who might prefer being in SL and creating, at least part of the time, or as an option, vs. sitting disconnected completely, on their computer, and trying to learn Blender (for instance.) Rather, trying to teach themselves to use it.

I think if there were in world building tools that were intuitive to use, WYSIWYG, sort of, (have you built a house in The Sims game? Their create a person thing is not good, though) concurrency or whatever it's called might go up. People would enjoy creating again. The prim belongs to the past in my opinion. Time for a bit more.

---

Building is in world is something that I feel is good for some people, I really do. But, I was simply saying people can sort of build with mesh outside and with something easier than belnder, but maybe just use blender or something to convert stuff.

I think the in world building tools are good. And for collaboration, in world is good to. But, I assume you mean this tool would only be used by one at a time. Meaning most would be alone in building. Technically, with prims many can make parts if they are int esame group. Of course, who owns it...this gets interesting when it comes to packing it up. But, if there is understanding...well, prims are easy to sort of deal with for group building. But, yes....prims are something that streams well for 2003-2004 and helped to build this place...but, yeah to many triangles and no control.

Newer tools could be built, and even offline building could occur (some of use either have or may get bandwidth restrictions lol so..yeah, thi is a nice option!) and the build tools in SL are really pretty good, considering. They are easy to grasp and also provide a tiny bit of simplicity while keeping things flowing nicely. they may be able to pull something that works well with what they have with priims as well.

And, to the other replyer, as far as a ring or a whatever I assume it would be a teleporter prim that moves them from one persons sim to another, of course I assume group can allow this. But, maybe both sims need to have the same owner in order for the teleport on collide to work?

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Well... as far as a TP HUD goes, here's a HUD that will work with both the Stargate networks and RLV teleports, though I am not TOTALLY positive the RLV teleport syntax is correct. It has a simple built-in permission system. The default is to not allow anyone but owner objects, but it can be set to allow land-owner and/or land-group owned objects.

It's free, full-perm and does include a full-perm example teleporter (shown at the location). It's also pretty lousy code for a number of reasons, but it works for me

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Dura/81/240/34

No rights reserved, use in any way you wish. Give it away, pass it on, sell it, claim you wrote it - in short, do whatever you like with it.

[DJBinho Beck]

Hello guys, I still have the same doubts:
in video when used llAttachToAvatarTemp, the object is duplicated and attached to the avatar.
but I can not do this, what happens to me is that the object is attached, not a copy of it.
Can anyone help me?
thank you very much

[Ceka Cianci]

not sure if anyone had addressed this yet..

it was good to hear Torley doing another video..i missed him and his videos. =)

[Jenni Darkwatch]

---

DJBinho Beck wrote:

Hello guys, I still have the same doubts:

in video when used llAttachToAvatarTemp, the object is duplicated and attached to the avatar.

but I can not do this, what happens to me is that the object is attached, not a copy of it.

Can anyone help me?

thank you very much

---

That's how it's supposed to work. The normal procedure would be:

An object uses llGetAgentList() or llSensorRepeat() to get a list of avis in the area. If a new avi is detected, it rezzes a HUD, and the HUD asks for permission to attach to the avi. This requires a bit of communication between the HUD and the sensor object. To prevent it from being annoying, you'd have to add some logic to prevent spamming visitors. If they decline once, don't try to give them the HUD again and so on.

I find the video a bit misleading, as it lumps together the two new functions whereas they're mutually exclusive. You cannot TP an avi from a temp-attached HUD (why?). The llTeleportAgent function in particular is just shy of totally worthless for all but some specific use cases.

[DJBinho Beck]

hello Jenni,
thanks for replying, I did not talked about part of the hud.
I talked about the bear, when clicked it generates a copy of itself and after it is attached. it does not happen with this new function.
I wonder how I could do this? because if it happens in the video, then there is a way to do this
thank you