How to deal with persone who is uploading and selling mesh models from google warehouse?

[Min Barzane]

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So true. I think in the farther future you will see zero importing and zero creating as linden will pull the plug on this disappointing underperformer to focus solely on their new products currently in beta.

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LL will newer pull the plug on golden cow ( mesh ),it might be desapointing and underperformer but only for part of content that is not optimised for SL! Basicly anyone can make mesh but not eweryone can make it good for SL!!!

 

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@ OP: I believe everything uploaded to google becomes google's IP. Google makes money by glomming up small IP holders stuff. Same as facebook does. Want to report it? Better talk to google. Protecting IP does not fit with google's business model. Thats why google fights to protect 'our internet freedoms' as they like to call it... good luck.

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Its not only Google in question but many more websites that host free 3d mesh models,ppl ripp off models from there and upload it to SL caliming to be their own work, ewen those sites that do allow such transfer ask that if you do use model you post who made it ( credits ) and ppl dont ewen do that! than you have game model rips,you have all seen Bathseda Softworks Eldar Scrolls weapon and armor mesh models sold on MP... ( just one example,there are manny like it )

As manny pointed out there is nothing more we can do about stopping rippers and lazy ass uploaders than contact IP holders and hope they file DMCA and pull the plug on their models in SL...

Only thing we CAN do is make lot more original,quality, optimised mesh and put it in SL for ppl to enjoy creativity and originality rather than lag their ass off from crappy,halfassed,ripped mesh!

Il stop crying n shouting what we can or cant to, Ill do what I CAN!!! Ill be original and make orginal stuff ! Eweryone else should do same,be original,drown theifs in uniqueness!!! Let them choke in their own uncreative, lazy and greedy minds!

 

[WADE1 Jya]

Good points Min. Like the attitude hehe :catembarrassed:

To be a little more clear I am not talking Linden pull plug on mesh but on the entire SL product. It is just my opinion, but I think they've put SL into a slow unsustainable death spiral & they are quite content to monetize the **** out of whoever remains as their SL product fades into obselescence. I feel Linden attention has drifted away from their SL product to unrelated shinies.

Somebody please remind me why I need a nonadvertised unheard of (and shrinking) 'virtual world' as intermediary for my business endevours again? I can't really see a reason to hide my newest creations in here lately. I have a product release launching next month.

Yet it is for my customers on mobile devices so not compatible with old old SL here :catsad:

Too bad old Linden couldn't keep up, we had some great days together. All the great Lindens I wish they were still here.

[Min Barzane]

LL is only provider of world "empty canvas" so to say,we are ones who paint on it,we a residents,we are ones who input our creations in it and make it what it is! We are LL's golden cow! We pay for LL's hawaian shirts and talet paper! And what LL gives us back? More canvas to paint on,gives us more paint ( from prims,sculpts,mesh,new abilities in scripting things )!

 

We are ones who make LAG,not LL! We as residents do that! Those  who dont know how to make their creations fallowing SL specific roules and dont care about optimisation make LAG! Those who dont care about copyrights and upload ilegal models in to SL are drowning SL! They are ones who drag it down in to oblivion! It is up to rest of us who do fallow roules and create original artwork to pull it back up in to the light!!!

LL is as you say montizing SL,yes,becouse they have to pay for all that canvas we paint on (sim servers) they have to pay for electricity they run on,they have to eat something,they have to pay bills!And they have to make a living to! SL is a buisness but it is one big peace of art to!! 99.9 % of SL is resident made!!!

We are ones who make SL what it is!!! Lets keep it original and unique!!!

[Pamela Galli]

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Poenald Palen wrote:

To keep SL original and creative? I give 2cents on this, to make up for any perceived waste of time. These are BIG 2c coins, but are basically not nonsense...or are they? I think some of this might be feasible. But, I am NOT a socializer...I am not the one for this efforts leader and these are basically a few ideas anyone may come up with anyway...sort of DUH ones in there to. But, at least they show as a vote for the creation...I do sometimes participate in forums, just not personal chatty freindly stuff and like to work alone.

I would think that making classes, or supporting existiing ones and helping new creators would help to maybe guide them towards making stuff that is creative. Also helping to point out the guidelines and TOS

involving copyright as this is a enlightening (or maybe shocking!) set of guidelines on the wiki or knowledge base that is worth a read! So, maybe teach or sponser and find a teacher for a class on concept art?

Maybe even make a competition where people submit original art and you model it?

They win the model made for them! Tell them it is concept basics over drawing skill, so you can maybe even be liberal with thier art a bit and still capture what they wanted and couldn't express? Network with concept artists on Devient art? Make buddies with them? Look at mr. susatno's deal with an etsy creator as inspiration and confirmation here?

Group for original artists and designers

and chat and focus on it's importance? There are those who break the rules, yes. But, when you

invest 

time into something only to have it taken down....you are not doing yourself a service! Not only that, but they may not know this! Tell them of the TOS in a class, group or make a guild or meeting type of thing? Event maybe? May be fruitful, maybe just arguments lol.

I am working on concepts, and have also looked for practice blue prints and refs.

References and blueprints are very important to modellers, animators and other creators who wish to use a bit of realism in thier works OR simply don't like to 'sketch' in 3D or animate non-real creations.

I mean, sharing some sources of usable original concept stuff, or maybe even making them and encouraging non-3d concept artists to share via websites...well, this might help!

If money is more of a motivator for all involved, then obiously maybe a set of social network connections places set up to allow others to find 3D artists to make thier stuff. If the 2D artist pays for this, or even vise versa and the 3D artist pays for a concept based on some language based instructions and ideas shared....well, maybe this works to create more original content? More creates interest, plus they themselves may become customers of each others wares and may bring like minded friends, who may or may not be talented but enjoy the stuff either way? Anyone want to make a HUB of some kind, help people get hooked up and maybe help each other with marketing and promotion?

Do you feel that 3D is a barrier? Archapeligo Designer, Moment of Inspiration or some other software might appeal to those who are not into blender or other polygon centric modelling software?

Not that blender is simply a 3d modeller, it isn't. But the modelling part is not as well equiped for NURBS, though Bsplines is a very promising new addition available. Moment of Inpiration seemed pretty simple, costs less and worked nicely enough to design things, from what I saw and remember of it. So, maybe any users of these teach some SL tuts? I am sure MOI users would like to see them, as well as potential customers? So, share some tutorials somewhere on how to do original designs, not just using blue prints or RL items. Help use see how you sketch it up in MOI or archapeligo?

Creativity sometimes means you have to reach out of your box or rut and have a

different experience

...so, maybe

give some people something to change thier way of viewing things...NO not LSD

...I know one of you must have thought that lol...right? But, I mean....sometimes it might be the news for science fiction fans, possibly a new archiological dig finding for a person RPing stuff in an ancient time....hey, maybe even a new trick you found out that makes a certain look. Share. Teach. Inspire!

Maybe you can make a sort of world, style or 'system' for people to build stuff for?

An API or some kind of system others can join in creating for? People did this with breedables, though I am not sure it was successful for all. But, yeah...fishing rods made by fans of the fishing games in SL and so on. Micro avatars sort of do this a bit. You can make bits or avatars, make a place to hang out or a car to use with them. Stuff like that helps those with less time, resources, connections, scripting, or whatever.

 

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Thanks Poenald, you have made some thoughtful observations :-)

[JoJo Aurelia]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

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Poenald Palen wrote:

To keep SL original and creative? I give 2cents on this, to make up for any perceived waste of time. These are BIG 2c coins, but are basically not nonsense...or are they? I think some of this might be feasible. But, I am NOT a socializer...I am not the one for this efforts leader and these are basically a few ideas anyone may come up with anyway...sort of DUH ones in there to. But, at least they show as a vote for the creation...I do sometimes participate in forums, just not personal chatty freindly stuff and like to work alone.

I would think that making classes, or supporting existiing ones and helping new creators would help to maybe guide them towards making stuff that is creative. Also helping to point out the guidelines and TOS

involving copyright as this is a enlightening (or maybe shocking!) set of guidelines on the wiki or knowledge base that is worth a read! So, maybe teach or sponser and find a teacher for a class on concept art?

Maybe even make a competition where people submit original art and you model it?

They win the model made for them! Tell them it is concept basics over drawing skill, so you can maybe even be liberal with thier art a bit and still capture what they wanted and couldn't express? Network with concept artists on Devient art? Make buddies with them? Look at mr. susatno's deal with an etsy creator as inspiration and confirmation here?

Group for original artists and designers

and chat and focus on it's importance? There are those who break the rules, yes. But, when you

invest 

time into something only to have it taken down....you are not doing yourself a service! Not only that, but they may not know this! Tell them of the TOS in a class, group or make a guild or meeting type of thing? Event maybe? May be fruitful, maybe just arguments lol.

I am working on concepts, and have also looked for practice blue prints and refs.

References and blueprints are very important to modellers, animators and other creators who wish to use a bit of realism in thier works OR simply don't like to 'sketch' in 3D or animate non-real creations.

I mean, sharing some sources of usable original concept stuff, or maybe even making them and encouraging non-3d concept artists to share via websites...well, this might help!

If money is more of a motivator for all involved, then obiously maybe a set of social network connections places set up to allow others to find 3D artists to make thier stuff. If the 2D artist pays for this, or even vise versa and the 3D artist pays for a concept based on some language based instructions and ideas shared....well, maybe this works to create more original content? More creates interest, plus they themselves may become customers of each others wares and may bring like minded friends, who may or may not be talented but enjoy the stuff either way? Anyone want to make a HUB of some kind, help people get hooked up and maybe help each other with marketing and promotion?

Do you feel that 3D is a barrier? Archapeligo Designer, Moment of Inspiration or some other software might appeal to those who are not into blender or other polygon centric modelling software?

Not that blender is simply a 3d modeller, it isn't. But the modelling part is not as well equiped for NURBS, though Bsplines is a very promising new addition available. Moment of Inpiration seemed pretty simple, costs less and worked nicely enough to design things, from what I saw and remember of it. So, maybe any users of these teach some SL tuts? I am sure MOI users would like to see them, as well as potential customers? So, share some tutorials somewhere on how to do original designs, not just using blue prints or RL items. Help use see how you sketch it up in MOI or archapeligo?

Creativity sometimes means you have to reach out of your box or rut and have a

different experience

...so, maybe

give some people something to change thier way of viewing things...NO not LSD

...I know one of you must have thought that lol...right? But, I mean....sometimes it might be the news for science fiction fans, possibly a new archiological dig finding for a person RPing stuff in an ancient time....hey, maybe even a new trick you found out that makes a certain look. Share. Teach. Inspire!

Maybe you can make a sort of world, style or 'system' for people to build stuff for?

An API or some kind of system others can join in creating for? People did this with breedables, though I am not sure it was successful for all. But, yeah...fishing rods made by fans of the fishing games in SL and so on. Micro avatars sort of do this a bit. You can make bits or avatars, make a place to hang out or a car to use with them. Stuff like that helps those with less time, resources, connections, scripting, or whatever.

 

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Thanks Poenald, you have made some thoughtful observations :-)

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That's weird, I did think LSD.

[Poenald Palen]

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Min Barzane wrote:

I have personaly teached manny new creators how to use and use good both  inworld building tools & blender supporting their creativity and originality and i will keep on doing so...

My buisness group ( yes buisness,we sell our stuff but not for soul porpose of profit but to keep paying tier and have quiet place to work in and have a place to show our designs ) hosts so far 8 creative ppl who compete ( for pure joy and fun of it ) who will make more original,different,weird,funny creation.

There are manny 3d programs out there that are free,Blender,Wings3d,as you mention Archipelago ( have to check that one

),its just matter of picking one and stcking to it to learn and learn it good! If ppl have persistance to learn there are no barriers! Ppl say "Oh its hard,i cant do it" Heck stick with it n learn it!!!

Ppl ask me to make manny different things,i dont stick to only 1 line of items, iw made swords, armour, buildings, cars&bikes,jewlery, ewen complete avatars n clothing, if what ppl ask is fun and different enough idea i dont ewen charge them at all!  Also manny things i have in my shop a give away for free,all full perm so others can use them fod their creations as parts, making new and original designs far from what i could imagine that such parts can be used for...creativity has no limits!

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I am not sure about sticking to one program. I have way more luck in other sculpt programs, like scultris, than in blenders. Why? Don't know, it just works that way. Some stuff is made better or in a way that it works for me.

Now, some use a tablet, I am using a mouse. So, maybe this has something to do with some things.

Also, some of these do not do the same things. Arhepiligo Archipelis Designer (sorry, I got it wrong. Had to check this because I knew it didn't look right) works well for toonish stuff and simpler shapes that you paint images/renders/photo's onto. But, you may want to retopo stuff in blender and rig it. Archipeligo will not rig characters, I don't think.

 

BTW, you way no profit...copyrights and so on are basically based on preservation of income (i.e. the person is pirating profits from you via copying your stuff) so...I think the proof of damages is hard. You may claim you make connnections an dmake money via custom work or some other (NO, I do not do this myself and will not discuss earnings so much these days) so...yeah, lawyers shrug and say there is no case. I hate saying this because I don't want to give people any ideas. But, yeah...damages have to be above a certain amount or it is diminimsus. Plus, there is a burdon to take legal action after you DMCA. I have said this before, I am not a lawyer and I am more importantly not your lawyer. So....yeah, it is sad and I really do not want to mention this stuff even. But, this is what a ripper sees: NO earnings, no worries because no action can be taken. Which, of course is NOT true....the person could be lying in order to trap or may actually be able to prove earnings loses and may have a very large amount of fun to have with thier fun account. After all, most money a famous artist earns is not really used just to feed them. I doubt any of them starve due to copyright losses, but a few more or less have lost thier rights and did die a hard lonely poor death! Patents where lost by people who just didn't know the rules, copyrightable image stuff lost due to not acting and the law saying it was basically no biggy because they had allowed it to happen for years (carol shelbies cobra paint and style of the AC car companies car he and his pals worked with. Sorry, I am not spamming...I just read about cars a bit to much and like kit cars lol.) and...yeah, sad stuff. Not worth typing up to much about.

So, eat and apple a day if you can, and chill out. .gov says the stress is killing us all, the whole world...seriously, it is a leading contributor to premature death...fact, government funded and all that....right? Either way, I am sure most will continue on eating apple pies instead...sigh, when we the human race evolve and eat healthy?

[Whitney Deka]

I want to point out something that is probably pretty obvious, but I am a little concerned about it. Mesh is the game/film/tv/entertainment/simulation industry standard, which is why LL was so happy to introduce it to SL, and why many of us are also thrilled about it. I am a professional freelance 3D artist as my "day job", and I sell stuff on SL as a hobby. (I'm technically making a teensy tiny bit of money, but it's not nearly enough to consider it anything other than a hobby at this point. It's just really fun! ) I still own the rights to some of what I work on during the day, so sometimes I make edits and optimize them for SL (baking lights, poly count, change textures, add/remove detail; a decent amount of work) and upload them.

If you've ever experimented with stock "royalty free" 3D models for their use in SL, you'll know that it's still never as simple as downloading it from a website and sticking it straight in SL. I mean, you could techinically do that, but the product is always going to be significantly lower quality than someone who has put in time to make the mesh and textures look great specifically for SL. So yeah, there are the inevitable high land impact crappily textured **bleep**ty models downloaded from some of these stock websites, and most of them are listed at a low price. This may look threatening, but it's really not. If a customer is only willing to spend 5 lindens on a chair, they're okay with it having a land impact of 55, and they don't mind a crappy texture-- they weren't going to be my customer either way! :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:

Someone with a good eye that had seen my portfolio, played games I've worked on, or otherwise seen the media I've contributed to is going to be able to tell that they're based off of the same mesh. I also have friends and co-workers without personal interest in SL that have sent me their random models with explicit permission to use, too. So, when that inevitably happens, I hope that they send ME a message with their concerns, not a client from months past, or a friend. Under my SL name, they might not even realize it's me, and it could stir up a pretty annoying mess.

TL;DR, it's dangerous to our fellow merchants to assume that everyone is a thief. It's a safe bet when you see Hersheys or other clear branding on a product, but models are MUCH trickier. Let's be honest, if everyone is google image searching "modern chair" for reference, there are bound to be some very very similar products on the market!

[Medhue Simoni]

It's also worth reminding people that, just like people give away items on our own MP, their are model creators that give away some models with all rights waved. As the 3D community grows, this will be more and more common. If some1 had the time to look, you can find most items for free, and probably find a couple giving away rights too.

Personally, I'm planning on making many more cg videos and whenever I think up a scene for a video, I then go and search for things I need for a scene. I'm just looking for anything I can use commericially, and you can find those licenses on many free items. Most of them do not allow for redistribution but occasionally you will find some that give up all their rights. Then, I know what I have to make for the scene. I wouldn't even think of selling anything I acquire that way, as the rights thing is just to important to risk and it only takes an hour or so to make just about anything.

 SL is a whole different ball game when it comes to models. As has been pointed out, SL has some specific features that makes creating the items unique. For the most part, people aren't only buying items by how they look, but also what they do, since this is a living, breathing 3D virtual world, and you aren't just making a prop. Things need to be made with this in mind. The first version of my gun models are vastly different from the final versions, simply because of all the things I can do with those guns in SL.

The bottom line about saying that some1 stole a model, is that the accuser has no idea what the rights are on that model or who the creator gave rights to. I love it when customers tell me about a person they think is ripping me off. I've had it happen many a times. Most often, I find out the animation is 1 that I sell full perm, and they are selling it in a build. So, that customer was trying to protect me, but they were making an assumption that was not right.